7 day coverage nonsense

[Bob Owens]

I think it's reasonable to get shift differential for shifts that start between 1800 and 0459. And no, the current placeholder shift differential isn't reasonable. But at least the language around it wasn't wiped out entirely, and all you have to do is negotiate to get it raised vs. trying to get the language reinstated.

But working 5 of 7 days is something every airline employee signed up for on your applications. Expecting to get paid a "weekend premium" is almost as ludicrous as having Super Bowl Sunday declared a paid holiday.

Once again you say "we signed up for that", yes and when we did they offered better benifits and 40% better pay. They want the same stuff they used to get but they want to pay half as much.

 

[Bob Owens]

How is it harder to fix an airplane on a holiday than it is on a normal Friday at noon? What is more difficult about an ETOPS check on Saturday afternoon vs. Tuesday morning?

Working midnights is a challenge because of circadian rhythms, and I agree that there should be some incentive there. But working normal waking hours on a Saturday or Sunday isn't interfering with your body. It may interfere with your family, but that's a conscious choice you made when choosing your career and/or deciding whether or not to raise a family.

Well dont the airlines charge more for flights during certain days and times? You know they do. Why is it unreasonable for workers to expect to be paid for working odd shifts, weekends and holidays if its not wrong for the airlines to charge differently?

The fact is if they want workers to show up during times that are at a social premium (weekends and holidays) they should expect to pay more than the lowest rate they can during normal hours, just like they charge customers more during Holidays etc.

 

[Interested]

I'm still interested in the REAL reason the 737 retro line are being forced to 7 day coverage. From what I hear is that the docks said they could get the planes out on time working 5 --- 8's with overtime as weekend days count against the schedule. Management said ok and gave them a certain number of planes to do it. Rumor has it, that hardly anyone wanted to work the overtime, so the mods don't go out on schedule. Is this REALLY what happened?

 

[eolesen]

Well dont the airlines charge more for flights during certain days and times? You know they do. Why is it unreasonable for workers to expect to be paid for working odd shifts, weekends and holidays if its not wrong for the airlines to charge differently?

The fact is if they want workers to show up during times that are at a social premium (weekends and holidays) they should expect to pay more than the lowest rate they can during normal hours, just like they charge customers more during Holidays etc.

Actually, most airlines don't charge more for flights based on time of day. Most (including AA) charge based on demand. When there's demand for a specific flight, they will close out the cheaper buckets and try to extract more out of customers.

If anything, the only time they might apply a time-of-day rule is for price matching someone else's lower fare.

Don't believe it? Go look at AA.com for flights six months from now. Show me where there's a day of week or time of day difference during the week of March 1st on any route you'd like to look at.

 

[Hopeful]

Personally, when I signed on for this business decades ago, I, as most, if not, all of my coworkers accepted the terms of working odd shifts, holidays and weekends. It's a 24/7 operation. But there should be some benefit or compensation into doing so. Nursing, police, firefighters, and just about any other type of work that requires a 24/7 presence do get a far greater differental for shift work, holidays and weekends.

Do members of management working the same odd shifts, holidays and weekends not receive comp time for working days off? Do managers working 9-5 with SAT/SUN off not receive comp time for coming on their days off?

As for midnight work, I don't care how you slice it, dice it and disect it,,,,,humans are not nocturnal creatures and having to go to work when the body dictates it should be at rest is simply not a healthy routine.

Humans are not designed to be awake overnight. Let alone make decisions and work most effectively.

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually, most airlines don't charge more for flights based on time of day. Most (including AA) charge based on demand. When there's demand for a specific flight, they will close out the cheaper buckets and try to extract more out of customers.

If anything, the only time they might apply a time-of-day rule is for price matching someone else's lower fare.

Don't believe it? Go look at AA.com for flights six months from now. Show me where there's a day of week or time of day difference during the week of March 1st on any route you'd like to look at.

Why not look at tomorrow?
Here's a day of week difference between tomorrow and the next day, JFK-LAX Tomorrow $471, the next day $371.
Or you could go on Flt 1777 through MCI to LAX and pay $361 or flt 179 through SFO and get their an hour earlier for $471, same day different time, different price.
Most people would prefer to be off on the weekends, thats why they should pay more. Most people prefer to work normal hours thats why they should pay more for that as well, call it demand if you will.

 

[eolesen]

Do members of management working the same odd shifts, holidays and weekends not receive comp time for working days off? Do managers working 9-5 with SAT/SUN off not receive comp time for coming on their days off?

This isn't rocket science... Everyone gets two days off during the week. In operational jobs, they do shifts with either rotating or fixed days off.

L3/L4 supervisors are eligible for overtime. If they work a sixth or seventh day, they can put in a supplemental time card and get the overtime, or if local procedure allows it, they can take it as comp time. Some states require the overtime to be paid out and don't allow comp time as an alternative.

L5's and above are salaried and typically are not eligible for overtime (unless state law specifies otherwise). If they work all or part of a sixth or seventh day, they don't get paid extra.

Maybe you think it's fair to expect management to work over 40 hours a week (or 173.34 hours per month) without any compensation, but I don't happen to share that opinion.

People regardless of pay grade deserve to balance out their time on and off duty.

Come to think of it, if management *were* paid overtime by the same rules as the union, you all would be screaming about how management abuses overtime to increase their paychecks...

 

[paul1]

my level 5 says the best a level 4 can get is comp time in ord no O/T

 

[Hopeful]

This isn't rocket science... Everyone gets two days off during the week. In operational jobs, they do shifts with either rotating or fixed days off.

L3/L4 supervisors are eligible for overtime. If they work a sixth or seventh day, they can put in a supplemental time card and get the overtime, or if local procedure allows it, they can take it as comp time. Some states require the overtime to be paid out and don't allow comp time as an alternative.

L5's and above are salaried and typically are not eligible for overtime (unless state law specifies otherwise). If they work all or part of a sixth or seventh day, they don't get paid extra.

Maybe you think it's fair to expect management to work over 40 hours a week (or 173.34 hours per month) without any compensation, but I don't happen to share that opinion.

People regardless of pay grade deserve to balance out their time on and off duty.

Come to think of it, if management *were* paid overtime by the same rules as the union, you all would be screaming about how management abuses overtime to increase their paychecks...

I don't know what you are responding to do. My post was simply defendingthe reality that even though we are in a 24/7 world, there should be something "extra" for working nights and shift work in general. My examples that even management gets "comp" time for working days off merely proves my point that when you are required to work anything other than the "regular" or "ordinary" schedule, you should be compensated for it, be it management or hourly worker.
And as for your suggestion that I would be screaming about management abuses if they were paid overtime like i am....Please don;t assume what I would do or not do.
Even if I was to work my day off, I would get paid overtime for that day. Management should get "comp" time for working their days off.
having said that, I also feel that is appropiate to get paid a decent overwide for working nights and odd shifts.