2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[MetalMover]

Well we know AMFA is definitely not a fleet option.

Like I said, I was only using it as an example pertaining to how I feel the vote should be conducted.

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you insinuating a mechanic is not welcome on a fleet thread? 

I like having you here personally. h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r:

 

[AANOTOK]

Like I said, I was only using it as an example pertaining to how I feel the vote should be conducted.

I'm right there with ya Metal. I'm against the Association. I have given my example and opinion
on what the ballot should look like. But as W has said, it's up to the NMB and I do feel those
who do not want any part of the Association are gonna get screwed (my words not WeAAsles).

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm right there with ya Metal. I'm against the Association. I have given my example and opinion
on what the ballot should look like. But as W has said, it's up to the NMB and I do feel those
who do not want any part of the Association are gonna get screwed (my words not WeAAsles).

Maybe another classic song for those people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKhkI49Z5s

 

[MetalMover]

Someone tried to start a independent Union called the AGW once. No one was interested. Fleet at US has and likes the IAM. They had an overwhelming vote in both their TA and they're District elections. You're barking up the wrong tree for those guys. As for the TWU at AA we don't have the same type of grumblings you guys have. And before you go off on how much better we have it, from what I read you make (currently) $36.00 per hour with your licenses. (We make $23.00) so at least right now not counting all the extra's you make $75,000 per year. (We make $48,000)

Now in 4 more months we'll go up to at least $24.50 (I'm still thinking it should be $25.00 by my understanding of the AA side of the language?) Have you figured out the math for your group yet for the averaging?

I saw Chuck came up with $43.56? I'm guessing that's with your Licenses? The BASE I get in my math is $38.44. Well let's stick with Chuck's numbers because he's very smart. So not counting all of the extra's if you get that 7% your yearly base with licenses comes out to $90,604  
 
Yea I guess if you guys get to that $90,604 (Well over $100,000 with benefits, not counting OT) that disdain absolutely should be carried with you all the way till the preacher is saying that prayer over your dirt hole?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vH3lBI5Arc

WeAAsles, it is going to take more than just a raise for me to change my feelings and opinions towards the TWU. They need to change the way they conduct themselves. they need to end the "divide and conquer" strategy not just between the different work groups but between the same work groups. 
 
Now the 4 months you are referring to I assume is the September increase + industry standard? Maybe because you feel we will not have a NEW JCBA by then?
If so, I do not think it is going to be as much as most of us think. Even though DL got a raise, UA/CO did not. That will keep the average down. And will they or won't they include the US mechanics in  the average calculation since we might not have an agreement by then? Since they barely make what we make, that will keep the average. 

 

[ChockJockey]

I was using AMFA AND the IBT as an example. If another union had enough cards for a vote, the vote would be between the TWU and the union seeking representation. Not THAT union or NO UNION as an option.
Since fleet seems happy with the TWU, then maybe there is another option for you.

 
I haven't heard about another union showing interest in Fleet, or least no talk of it or cards made it to me.
 

Nah I think we'll be fine moving forward? But thanks for thinking about us Metal. Actually on this thread it's the IAM and TWU.

 
At this point I'm more interested in whichever avenue is going to get us (Fleet) a good JCBA and sooner.  With the Association we (Fleet) could conceivably have one to vote on before the end of the year.  There is also a very real possibility that a representational election, or multiple elections, could push back the prospect of a JCBA by many months or even years.
 

How've you been Chock?

 
Happy that I am not over-happy...doing well, thanks.
 

I thought I would add my $.02 because it seems fleet doesn't know of any other option other than the TWU.

 
I don't know much of the TWU, and based on what I've heard here mostly from mechanics is that A.) it is guaranteed to screw me over and B.) I should immediately chuck my current union so that it may become my sole bargaining agent.
 

Are you insinuating a mechanic is not welcome on a fleet thread? 

 
No, but MX is operating in a different paradigm than Fleet is.  There are 11 threads on the front page of these AA forums discussing MX representational concerns and only one for Fleet, so when discussion about a group that has no interest or possibility of representing us (AMFA) keeps coming up in the Fleet thread it does more to confuse the issue for us than to illuminate it.  That's just my opinion.  I respect your opinions and your right to post here and I really do hope you guys end up in a situation that respects your efforts and talents with fair compensation, I also hope that can be done without creating animosity between Fleet and MX.
 

Well we know AMFA is definitely not a fleet option.

 
Ah, okay.  That's what I thought.

 

[MetalMover]

I'm right there with ya Metal. I'm against the Association. I have given my example and opinion
on what the ballot should look like. But as W has said, it's up to the NMB and I do feel those
who do not want any part of the Association are gonna get screwed (my words not WeAAsles).

We all know it is up to the NMB, we may have to live with it but we sure as hell don't have to like it. 
Many people just want to get to JCBA, but few are thinking about what those negotiations are going to look like and how long they will take. We are two unions with two ways of representing their members. Then their will be the integration of seniorities. Then there will be the animosities all over again ALA TWA. We will never be one big happy family. 

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles, it is going to take more than just a raise for me to change my feelings and opinions towards the TWU. They need to change the way they conduct themselves. they need to end the "divide and conquer" strategy not just between the different work groups but between the same work groups. 

If you're talking about the guys in the International or even in the ATD they can't hold your hands and force you guys to play nice together in the playground sandbox. They can stay out of your hair and let you guys figure it out for yourselves though.
 

Now the 4 months you are referring to I assume is the September increase + industry standard? Maybe because you feel we will not have a NEW JCBA by then?
If so, I do not think it is going to be as much as most of us think. Even though DL got a raise, UA/CO did not. That will keep the average down. And will they or won't they include the US mechanics in  the average calculation since we might not have an agreement by then? Since they barely make what we make, that will keep the average. 

Now you're asking the same question I am? In our language we have the term (Or there successors). I'm sorry that I don't see that in your language so as a betting man care to take a guess how I would lay down my bet?

 

[WeAAsles]

At this point I'm more interested in whichever avenue is going to get us (Fleet) a good JCBA and sooner.  With the Association we (Fleet) could conceivably have one to vote on before the end of the year.  There is also a very real possibility that a representational election, or multiple elections, could push back the prospect of a JCBA by many months or even years.

As The Fonz used to say, correctamundo. I'll place my bet on RED.

 

I don't know much of the TWU, and based on what I've heard here mostly from mechanics is that A.) it is guaranteed to screw me over and B.) I should immediately chuck my current union so that it may become my sole bargaining agent.

 


So you've noticed the interesting duality that some of them are trying to sell then. You really pegged that one.

Just a slight dichotomy huh?
 
 
 


 
 

 

[MetalMover]

If you're talking about the guys in the International or even in the ATD they can't hold your hands and force you guys to play nice together in the playground sandbox. They can stay out of your hair and let you guys figure it for yourselves though.
 

Now you're asking the same question I am? In our language we have the term (Or there successors). I'm sorry that I don't see that in your language so as a betting man care to take a guess how I would lay down my bet?

Our contract said it will include the wages of Delta, United and US Airways "IN EFFECT" on 9/12/15. The "IN EFFECT" is gonna be the gotcha. If they are included, it lowers the average. 

 

[WeAAsles]

We all know it is up to the NMB, we may have to live with it but we sure as hell don't have to like it. 
Many people just want to get to JCBA, but few are thinking about what those negotiations are going to look like and how long they will take. We are two unions with two ways of representing their members. Then their will be the integration of seniorities. Then there will be the animosities all over again ALA TWA. We will never be one big happy family. 

Metal most of you guys would have preferred the TWU (I'm not forgetting AMFA) had just went for the SCS and left the IAM eating our dust. Sure it might have been easier to get to the finish line if they had done that but then our guys would have been stepping all over my Brother Chock's want's and if you want to talk about animosities, oh boy you'd have a whole hell of a lot of that going on there.

Honestly I think it's your group that's going to have the most trouble. You categorize yourselves. Line mechanics/Overhaul mechanics (and related)  From the things I read on here OH guys want jobs and you guys want money.

The biggest problem I see with our group is those guys call themselves Agents and we call ourselves Fleet Service Clerks. Agent/Clerk (I want a new title)

 

[WeAAsles]

Our contract said it will include the wages of Delta, United and US Airways "IN EFFECT" on 9/12/15. The "IN EFFECT" is gonna be the gotcha. If they are included, it lowers the average. 

Remember our contract was written before the merger was basically shoved down the throats of the old AA. The new AA management probably would prefer we didn't have that language in there? It's not written the same in the IAM language for Fleet.

You turned down your first contract. Did your second contract come after we knew there was going to be a merger? And if it was it's easy to understand now why your language is different. Yes they will include US in your averaging IMO. 

 

[MetalMover]

Metal most of you guys would have preferred the TWU (I'm not forgetting AMFA) had just went for the SCS and left the IAM eating our dust. Sure it might have been easier to get to the finish line if they had done that but then our guys would have been stepping all over my Brother Chock's want's and if you want to talk about animosities, oh boy you'd have a whole hell of a lot of that going on there.

Honestly I think it's your group that's going to have the most trouble. You categorize yourselves. Line mechanics/Overhaul mechanics (and related)  From the things I read on here OH guys want jobs and you guys want money.

The biggest problem I see with our group is those guys call themselves Agents and we call ourselves Fleet Service Clerks. Agent/Clerk (I want a new title)

 

[MetalMover]

 

Metal most of you guys would have preferred the TWU (I'm not forgetting AMFA) had just went for the SCS and left the IAM eating our dust. Sure it might have been easier to get to the finish line if they had done that but then our guys would have been stepping all over my Brother Chock's want's and if you want to talk about animosities, oh boy you'd have a whole hell of a lot of that going on there.

Honestly I think it's your group that's going to have the most trouble. You categorize yourselves. Line mechanics/Overhaul mechanics (and related)  From the things I read on here OH guys want jobs and you guys want money.
So the OH guys want jobs and the rest of us at the line stations should forego any raise. That is the same old TWU playbook..We need to vote YES on these contracts to save jobs... Guess what? The jobs left anyway and less money.

The biggest problem I see with our group is those guys call themselves Agents and we call ourselves Fleet Service Clerks. Agent/Clerk (I want a new title)
 
Personally, I am perfectly fine with being called a mechanic. Doesn't matter if it's AMT or Engineer like the foreign carriers do, just compensate me accordingly.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 


So the OH guys want jobs and the rest of us at the line stations should forego any raise. That is the same old TWU playbook..We need to vote YES on these contracts to save jobs... Guess what? The jobs left anyway and less money.

 

 



Did I say ANYTHING about you foregoing a raise or any raises for that matter. I agree with you guys that you should be paid more. I've never said you shouldn't be. I support you and have said many many times that there should be GEOGRAPHIC PAY in our contracts. If you live in NYC I know you're getting murdered. (Try to think about the FSC too though since you're in our thread) 

The jobs are leaving for multiple reasons. New aircraft and the stripping of our protection language thanks to the BK gun.
 

 

 


Personally, I am perfectly fine with being called a mechanic. Doesn't matter if it's AMT or Engineer like the foreign carriers do, just compensate me accordingly.

 

 



But accordingly is what you consider it to be? In BASE wages compared to the big 4 airlines I'm paid at the bottom of the industry currently.  We have Fleet work in cities that's outsourced and being worked by people making $9.00 per hour with no benefits. If I was to ask the Company those A-holes would probably consider that "accordingly" and think that's all I should be making.

You have to realize that's how they view you also. (Thank God for the RLA and the code 1113 BK, at least for that side of it)