2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[bob@las-AA]

I agree to a point. But more and more responsibility is being heaped on them here and the clerks get away with murder sometimes at their expense. I don't think CC's should be baby sitters and I don't think they should be held entirely responsible for the actions of people on their crew.

And I'm not a CC.

Nor am I, BUT don't deitize the CC. The definition of CC has been the same since the "Blue Book". What may seen as more and more responsibility to you is simply the company forcing the CC to live up to his/her bid position and to its definition.

 

[Kev3188]

That is because the shop stewards filtered a lot of that out before it ever got to you.

That's incorrect. I still worked the line, and was alongside everyone else. It's not like I was off in an office at the other end of the airfield...
 

You rarely see the results of revolving door trouble makers because in the end seeing the lazy and incompetent kept on the clock thanks to UNION representation gives people a negative view of UNIONS.

You'd prefer people be denied their rights under DFR?
 

Management wins the war by simply doing nothing at all over time.
 
You are seeing the results of that now in peoples attitudes toward UNIONS.

No, we're seeing the results of people being messaged into advocating against their own best interests.
 

 

Come back to Realville Kevin. You know that goes against UNION culture. Anyone caught doing that would be labeled and ostracized.

I'm in reality. You have at least 3 people on this thread alone that have +1'ed the idea of poor performers being held accountable- four if you add me. You (general sense) have a choice; you can either advocate for self-policing, or you can cast your fate to management, and hope they've done what needs to be done.


 

Another propagated fantasy. Over 12 years I had never seen or even heard of any TWU member policing their own. With the exception of the above example excluded of course.

I wasn't in the TWU, so I can't speak to that, anymore than you can speak to my experience. Sounds like more an indictment against what Local 514 was doing while you were there than labor in general.

 

[WeAAsles]

Nor am I, BUT don't deitize the CC. The definition of CC has been the same since the "Blue Book". What may seen as more and more responsibility to you is simply the company forcing the CC to live up to his/her bid position and to its definition.

And that is precisely what "they" need to do. I can say also that there are plenty of CC's out there that at least personally I feel really shouldn't be in the position. Doing the required function of handling and putting in loads is one thing, but you also have to know how to be the Captain of your ship and motivate your crew.

 

[AANOTOK]

The whole system is setup to where the slugs are always covered by folks (on their crew or the CC) having a good or exceptional work ethic. It never fails. Management knows this, hence they don't worry about the slugs, and the union knows this, dues continue to flow, the DFR worked as designed and slugs, management and the union win. The losers are the CC's who ultimately are held accountable and the good workers who have had the work ethic instilled in them from childhood and would continue with that work ethic till the day he dies. And you know the funny thing about it, I have seen that good worker get hammered more for doing too much, costing jobs, being a company man than I have that slug for being a lazy piece of trash who relies on good workers and the DFR (UNION) to keep his job.
 
And before anyone starts, a good worker absolutely COULD lose his job if we didn't have representation, but these slugs absolutely WOULD lose their job if he didn't have representation. And on a last note, before someone ask who decides who's a slug, don't even go there, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE from management, to the Union, to the clerks, to the damn building cleaners know who the slugs are.
 
It is what it is and I will leave it at that. 32 years you see it all!

 

[WeAAsles]

The whole system is setup to where the slugs are always covered by folks (on their crew or the CC) having a good or exceptional work ethic. It never fails. Management knows this, hence they don't worry about the slugs, and the union knows this, dues continue to flow, the DFR worked as designed and slugs, management and the union win. The losers are the CC's who ultimately are held accountable and the good workers who have had the work ethic instilled in them from childhood and would continue with that work ethic till the day he dies. And you know the funny thing about it, I have seen that good worker get hammered more for doing too much, costing jobs, being a company man than I have that slug for being a lazy piece of trash who relies on good workers and the DFR (UNION) to keep his job.
 
And before anyone starts, a good worker absolutely COULD lose his job if we didn't have representation, but these slugs absolutely WOULD lose their job if he didn't have representation. And on a last note, before someone ask who decides who's a slug, don't even go there, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE from management, to the Union, to the clerks, to the damn building cleaners know who the slugs are.
 
It is what it is and I will leave it at that. 32 years you see it all!

Yes I know who the slugs are in my station too. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to tell them what I think of them before I go into that office and do everything I can to pull their arse out of the fire anyway.

 

[Kev3188]

Just to add another wrinkle, I now have some millennials on my crew. You can definitely tell who had that work ethic instilled, and who had la sort of "hurray for everything" childhood.

 

[Kev3188]

Yes I know who the slugs are in my station too. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to tell them what I think of them before I go into that office and do everything I can to pull their arse out of the fire anyway.

Yep.

And ideally, that will carry far more weight than having a shift manager say something...

 

[WeAAsles]

Just to add another wrinkle, I now have some millennials on my crew. You can definitely tell who had that work ethic instilled, and who had la sort of "hurray for everything" childhood.

Tell them to put the phone down while working or you'll take it away from them. Worked for me with 3 new hires so far. After that they were all pretty good workers. Just need the little push from us older folks.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Just to add another wrinkle, I now have some millennials on my crew. You can definitely tell who had that work ethic instilled, and who had la sort of "hurray for everything" childhood.

That's because parents today are too busy trying to be their kids friend instead of actually parenting.
 
They try to give their kid everything under the sun without the kid making any kind of investment of his own.
 
They make excuses for the kids bad behavior instead of making the kid take responsibility for his poor choices.
 
The kids grow up with a sense of entitlement. They expect everything they want without having to expend any effort of their own to obtain it.
 
 
In a lot of cases the kid is lazy but that is only a symptom of the real problem. The real problem is they have been conditioned to expect something for nothing and were never prepared for the real world. To them it is incomprehensible that they are actually expected to expend effort to obtain their wants.
 
Is it any wonder that they are attracted to a Company/UNION partnership that encourages that behavior?
 
The end result is you as a worker get stuck doing all the labor so they can continue to obtain their wants with little to no effort. You just became their unwilling provider. 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The whole system is setup to where the slugs are always covered by folks (on their crew or the CC) having a good or exceptional work ethic. It never fails. Management knows this, hence they don't worry about the slugs, and the union knows this, dues continue to flow, the DFR worked as designed and slugs, management and the union win. The losers are the CC's who ultimately are held accountable and the good workers who have had the work ethic instilled in them from childhood and would continue with that work ethic till the day he dies. And you know the funny thing about it, I have seen that good worker get hammered more for doing too much, costing jobs, being a company man than I have that slug for being a lazy piece of trash who relies on good workers and the DFR (UNION) to keep his job.
 
And before anyone starts, a good worker absolutely COULD lose his job if we didn't have representation, but these slugs absolutely WOULD lose their job if he didn't have representation. And on a last note, before someone ask who decides who's a slug, don't even go there, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE from management, to the Union, to the clerks, to the damn building cleaners know who the slugs are.
 
It is what it is and I will leave it at that. 32 years you see it all!

Agreed.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Yes I know who the slugs are in my station too. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to tell them what I think of them before I go into that office and do everything I can to pull their arse out of the fire anyway.

So you defend incompetence and laziness in the name of UNION brotherhood.
 
Your coworkers get to spend a career "tolerating" their own coworkers taking advantage of them with the company's and UNION'S blessing.
 
Works out well for everyone except people that actually work for a living.
 
Sounds like they found a version of Welfare+.

 

[robbedagain]

whether or not the person is liked or not  union reps have to defend them from mgmt. as much as they can   

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

whether or not the person is liked or not  union reps have to defend them from mgmt. as much as they can   

Just keep thinking that way instead of evolving and watch UNIONS deteriorate into non existence. 

 

[Kev3188]

You always defend the issue, not the person. That's representation 101. It also happens to be the law.

 

[bob@las-AA]

You always defend the issue, not the person. That's representation 101. It also happens to be the law.

+3 
Now if the issue is performance, and CSM has this on tape. Then what? Try to get the person off? Or plea bargain for a lessor charge?