2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

I hear you! They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a
different result. I know they have to continue to post vacancies, per the contract. But at some point you'd think someone in leadership would say "hmmm we keep posting 12, 17, even 20 cc vacancies at mia and only 1 or 2 fsc's take it. I wonder why thats happening?" Maybe a side letter to incentivize the job more. Maybe going back to old-school, where csm's aren't allowed on your gate unless you call them. How about an open dialogue with management and current cc's to explore some things that might actually encourage senior guys into those positions. Sheesh who'd want to run a biz where the 15, 20, 30yr guys don't want any part of leading the charge. Instead you get 2 and 3yr guys who barely remember their own employee number, responsible for loading 300 mil dollar aircraft. It makes no sense to me but seems like an unending problem. Last thing mia needs is for guys in orange vests directing traffic but unfortunately it looks as though thats what its coming to lol

Precisely. They used to call those "mentor-ship programs" Ask CC's who are willing to mentor people who might be interested in becoming CC's to let those people shadow them. Take those clerks off the manning and cover the holes with OT.

And get the freakin CSM's away from the gates unless they are called on for any issues. We have far too many of them out there as it is.

We don't need watchers when we have workers.

 

[Kev3188]

We just had an internal opening for our equivalent of a CC in my station. Not a single person put in for it...

 

[freedom]

Sounds like the problem CC's are having stems from a few bad apples. ..

The question is why can't we get rid of the people who don't want to do their jobs ?

I know, I know it's the unions job to defend everybody ...but even the guy that everyone universally despises and who's been slacking off for the last decade ?

Does the union REALLY have to so vigorously defend the person who ruins everyone's day when they find out that "ooh no I've got to work with so and so "...

People that are so lazy that workers would rather work without them than see their face .

 

[WeAAsles]

Sounds like the problem CC's are having stems from a few bad apples. ..

Sometimes.

The question is why can't we get rid of the people who don't want to do their jobs ?

Who makes the determination if they're doing their jobs or not? You, me, someone who might not like them for personal reasons?

I know, I know it's the unions job to defend everybody ...but even the guy that everyone universally despises and who's been slacking off for the last decade ?

YES! It's the company's job to cross their T's and dot their I's.

Does the union REALLY have to so vigorously defend the person who ruins everyone's day when they find out that "ooh no I've got to work with so and so "...

They absolutely should and must if there is a contractual violation. You defend the contract (Law) That's how it works Freedom. Would you really want someone who is defending you to go in with his personal feelings attached?

People that are so lazy that workers would rather work without them than see their face.

Known plenty of those in my career. There is a process to rectify that but it's not the Unions job to enforce it.

In a weird way you should be happy you have those people working with you. It means that your reps are very good at what they do. And Management isn't.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and Freedom, in the old day's we did use to Police our own (Parking Lot) But camera's, snitches and HR took that tool out of our box. <_<  

 

[psa8979]

The ASSOCIATION needs to address the LUS IAM FS Lead and LAA Crew Chief issues in their first meeting with AAL once NMB makes their ruling in 15 days ? with LOA ASAP. Outdated Classifications/Scheme ! IAM/TWU has better language in both C/S and F/S CBA at SWA dealing with Supervision . In my book your either Rank/File  or Management/Company . Fencesitters become Snitches at $ 1.50 hr. Good Luck  ! to ASSOCIATION Committees with JCBA . 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Sounds like the problem CC's are having stems from a few bad apples. ..

The question is why can't we get rid of the people who don't want to do their jobs ?

I know, I know it's the unions job to defend everybody ...but even the guy that everyone universally despises and who's been slacking off for the last decade ?

Does the union REALLY have to so vigorously defend the person who ruins everyone's day when they find out that "ooh no I've got to work with so and so "...

People that are so lazy that workers would rather work without them than see their face .

UNIONS attract people like that.
 
It is a sad but true fact.
 

They absolutely should and must if there is a contractual violation. You defend the contract (Law) That's how it works Freedom. Would you really want someone who is defending you to go in with his personal feelings attached?

Most of these fools end up in the supervisors office for behavior NOT defended by contract. A UNION stewards job is to enforce contract agreements not defend stupidity. 
 
As the poster was saying above.... UNIONS defending bad behavior that has nothing to do with enforcing the contract needs to stop.
 
Companies don't wish to stop it because eventually it works in their favor as people develop a negative view of UNIONS.
 
The UNION needs to let the company "flush the toilet" once in a while and get rid of all the sh*t clogging up production. 

 

[psa8979]

La Li Lu Le Lo 
L apathetic L idiot L uncivil L egoist L oriental ? = TROLL 

 

[AANOTOK]

UNIONS attract people like that.
 
It is a sad but true fact.
 
Most of these fools end up in the supervisors office for behavior NOT defended by contract. A UNION stewards job is to enforce contract agreements not defend stupidity. 
 
As the poster was saying above.... UNIONS defending bad behavior that has nothing to do with enforcing the contract needs to stop.
 
Companies don't wish to stop it because eventually it works in their favor as people develop a negative view of UNIONS.
 
The UNION needs to let the company "flush the toilet" once in a while and get rid of all the sh*t clogging up production. 

Agreed

 

[cltrat]

Agreed

me too

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok so some of you think the Union should chose sides. Not put in the effort because "whoever" thinks the member is not worthy.

So the first time they decide to do that where does it end? What level or criteria's need to be met to warrant full representation?

If someone decides that you guys are lazy workers (I'm sure you feel you're not) I guess it's ok then to just leave you hung out to dry right?

The duty of fair representation is incumbent upon U.S. labor unions that are the exclusive bargaining representative of workers in a particular group. It is the obligation to represent all employees fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination. Originally recognized by the United States Supreme Court in a series of cases in the mid-1940s involving racial discrimination by railway workers' unions covered by the Railway Labor Act, the duty of fair representation also applies to workers covered by the National Labor Relations Act and, depending on the terms of the statute, to public sector workers covered by state and local laws regulating labor relations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_fair_representation

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Ok so some of you think the Union should chose sides. Not put in the effort because "whoever" thinks the member is not worthy.

So the first time they decide to do that where does it end? What level or criteria's need to be met to warrant full representation?

If someone decides that you guys are lazy workers (I'm sure you feel you're not) I guess it's ok then to just leave you hung out to dry right?

The duty of fair representation is incumbent upon U.S. labor unions that are the exclusive bargaining representative of workers in a particular group. It is the obligation to represent all employees fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination. Originally recognized by the United States Supreme Court in a series of cases in the mid-1940s involving racial discrimination by railway workers' unions covered by the Railway Labor Act, the duty of fair representation also applies to workers covered by the National Labor Relations Act and, depending on the terms of the statute, to public sector workers covered by state and local laws regulating labor relations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_fair_representation

Sell that lie all you want WeAAsles.
 
The UNION spends 95 percent of its time defending 10 percent of the people.
 
The same screw ups typically end up in the supervisors office over and over.
 
Trim the dead weight from the workforce and things tend to work better for everyone, management, the workforce, and the customer. 

 

[bob@las-AA]

 

 
 

 

I agree with both of you. How some people manage to keep their jobs after getting fired suggests that either the you-nion is doing what they are paid for or the company dropping the ball. The company is not staffed to the level that they can actively watch everyone, they put that burden in the CC. If a POS FSC makes CC then he/she is a POS-CC-FSC and the cycle continues.  

 

[Kev3188]

Sell that lie all you want WeAAsles.
 
The UNION spends 95 percent of its time defending 10 percent of the people.
 
The same screw ups typically end up in the supervisors office over and over.
 
Trim the dead weight from the workforce and things tend to work better for everyone, management, the workforce, and the customer. 

I was a grievance committee chair, and that wasn't my experience at all.

At most, I'd say I spent 5-10% of my time playing jailhouse lawyer.

And DFR isn't a lie; it's a right -your right- under federal law.

If you want the company to get rid of poor performers, then you need to implore your managers to do their due diligence. It's that simple.

Oh, and before someone says it, I'm much more a fan of policing our own, than having anything go into an office...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I was a grievance committee chair, and that wasn't my experience at all.

At most, I'd say I spent 5-10% of my time playing jailhouse lawyer.

That is because the shop stewards filtered a lot of that out before it ever got to you.
 
You rarely see the results of revolving door trouble makers because in the end seeing the lazy and incompetent kept on the clock thanks to UNION representation gives people a negative view of UNIONS.
 
Management wins the war by simply doing nothing at all over time.
 
You are seeing the results of that now in peoples attitudes toward UNIONS.
 

And DFR isn't a lie; it's a right -your right- under federal law.

Yes and it destroys UNION credibility.
 
Convenient isn't it?
 

If you want the company to get rid of poor performers, then you need to implore your managers to do their due diligence. It's that simple.

Come back to Realville Kevin. You know that goes against UNION culture. Anyone caught doing that would be labeled and ostracized.
 

Oh, and before someone says it, I'm much more a fan of policing our own, than having anything go into an office...

Another propagated fantasy. Over 12 years I had never seen or even heard of any TWU member policing their own. With the exception of the above example excluded of course.