2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[ChockJockey]

Not quite accurate on lead qualifieds, east US cities have many more qualifieds.

 
Shows what I know.
 
 

I do hear management is more active in PHX though. Old AWA mentality.

 
Not many original AWA managers left on the ramp.  There used to be two per concourse, now there's only one.  The dispatch leads and unit leads do a lot of the coordinating that the managers used to be responsible for.

 

[WeAAsles]

Spoke to the ramp manager yesterday and he seems to continue to be more in line with the idea that it's us and not them who are losing the interest in taking a CC position? I told him my opinion that I think it's more of a 50/50 on that one but he still seems to not get it into his mind to wrap around the thought.

I think besides the nit picking which he did admit they are doing somewhat it might also be that many people are a little nervous about all of the automation using ramp link now and are shying away from that?

Honestly though there are some people here who are lax about performing their jobs and that problem get's thrust on the CC rather than the clerk messing around. I think management should conduct better investigations to the root causes of delays and if they determine that the failure was due to a clerk and not the function of a CC they should coach and council that clerk instead.

CC's aren't and can't be baby sitters and they can't force someone to do their job and shouldn't be held responsible for that.

 

[AANOTOK]

...and yet when you report the individual(s) to whomever (union, which you have clearly stated it's not their job to police) or (to management where you are a rat or anti-union) their job is fought for and protected regardless how bad he/she is hurting his crew members, company, and of course CC who is put in the middle of the firing squad.

 

[cltrat]

...and yet when you report the individual(s) to whomever (union, which you have clearly stated it's not their job to police) or (to management where you are a rat or anti-union) their job is fought for and protected regardless how bad he/she is hurting his crew members, company, and of course CC who is put in the middle of the firing squad.

it's a tough spot to be in at times AANOTOK, question for you do CC's there bid by DOH or DOC?

 

[WeAAsles]

...and yet when you report the individual(s) to whomever (union, which you have clearly stated it's not their job to police) or (to management where you are a rat or anti-union) their job is fought for and protected regardless how bad he/she is hurting his crew members, company, and of course CC who is put in the middle of the firing squad.

You see NOW we are in agreement. I think if a clerk is "purposely" jacking around and not doing their job then they don't care about the crew or the CC. Since the CC has the bulls-eye on his back he could ultimately be the one to get fired. I personally have ZERO issue with the CC going to management if all other options have been exhausted. The CC of course should try and straighten out the problem himself first, then let a Steward do a "courtesy" talking to that guy, maybe even twice and after that all bet's are off.

The way I think of it is if I was a CC you ARE NOT going to cost me MY job!!!!

 

[T5towbar]

You shouldn't be surprised since the BASE at both DL and UAL are higher than we are right now. I'm just talking BASE of course and not concentrating at the moment at the middle of the pie.

UAL goes to $25.22 next January not counting longevity. Yes I know they're getting stations chopped and pay cuts though so I do think about that. And I think they're also getting killed on their medical and lots of downgrading.

Our negotiators MAY have their work cut out for them? We'll have to see what managements behavior or mood is going to be?

 
The medical on the sUA side went up dramatically, while our medical on the sCO side stayed nearly the same or increased a but. (Mine went up about 50.00 since last year with a comparable plan - but this year the plan was more substantial due to the ACA law). We always had higher medical than sUA since theirs was nearly free or free entirely. 
 
I think that the downgrades were stopped because they cut to deep. In my hub, we are severely understaffed that they had to upgrade people back to FT. I wish it was more, but some is a start. They probably will do more for the summer like last year. (Delaney addressed this in his newsletter). The people from the 28 finally got their options now, and should be settling in to their new stations; and now the issue is after June's election the issue is preparing with the new contract. The main issue is to protect what we have and hopefully getting all stations under protective scope. (and restoring the cuts from the stations that took them). They can't throw money at us this time because there aren't competing interests now.  
 
My prediction: We sure as hell won't see that vaunted 26.64, imho.
I want iron clad scope for all. No cuts or closings. No compromises.
 
The negotiators better listen to this demand......

 

[WeAAsles]

it's a tough spot to be in at times AANOTOK, question for you do CC's there bid by DOH or DOC?

We retain our occupational seniority when we accept a CC position. I hired on May, 11 1995. I never went to another bargaining unit so my Company and occupational are the same. And it will be the same if I took one of those 17 CC spots here.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
The medical on the sUA side went up dramatically, while our medical on the sCO side stayed nearly the same or increased a but. (Mine went up about 50.00 since last year with a comparable plan - but this year the plan was more substantial due to the ACA law). We always had higher medical than sUA since theirs was nearly free or free entirely. 
 
I think that the downgrades were stopped because they cut to deep. In my hub, we are severely understaffed that they had to upgrade people back to FT. I wish it was more, but some is a start. They probably will do more for the summer like last year. (Delaney addressed this in his newsletter). The people from the 28 finally got their options now, and should be settling in to their new stations; and now the issue is after June's election the issue is preparing with the new contract. The main issue is to protect what we have and hopefully getting all stations under protective scope. (and restoring the cuts from the stations that took them). They can't throw money at us this time because there aren't competing interests now.  
 
My prediction: We sure as hell won't see that vaunted 26.64, imho.
I want iron clad scope for all. No cuts or closings. No compromises.
 
The negotiators better listen to this demand......

Thanks T5. Between you giving us your perspective at UAL and Kev giving it on Delta it helps a lot to compare situations and other items for us here at AA. You both come across as very honest and credible.

It is appreciated.

 

[cltrat]

We retain our occupational seniority when we accept a CC position. I hired on May, 11 1995. I never went to another bargaining unit so my Company and occupational are the same. And it will be the same if I took one of those 17 CC spots here.

thank you WeAAles

 

[WeAAsles]

...and yet when you report the individual(s) to whomever (union, which you have clearly stated it's not their job to police) or (to management where you are a rat or anti-union) their job is fought for and protected regardless how bad he/she is hurting his crew members, company, and of course CC who is put in the middle of the firing squad.

I wanted to come back to this one more time. Remember AANOTOK if management crosses their T's and dot's their I's and everything is compliant with both their PPC and our contract it doesn't matter how good the Steward or elected reps are. We'll lose the case.

I'm sure that you have enough time in the company to know how often and how badly certain managers do their jobs. Would you really want your rep to be as bad as some of them?

A Steward should never look at faces when he defends a member. It's not a job that you're supposed to interject your personal feeling into when you're in the office. (Outside of the office is a different story sometimes)

 

[Kev3188]

Thanks for the kind words, WeAAsles.

 

[Jester]

Spoke to the ramp manager yesterday and he seems to continue to be more in line with the idea that it's us and not them who are losing the interest in taking a CC position? I told him my opinion that I think it's more of a 50/50 on that one but he still seems to not get it into his mind to wrap around the thought.

I think besides the nit picking which he did admit they are doing somewhat it might also be that many people are a little nervous about all of the automation using ramp link now and are shying away from that?

Honestly though there are some people here who are lax about performing their jobs and that problem get's thrust on the CC rather than the clerk messing around. I think management should conduct better investigations to the root causes of delays and if they determine that the failure was due to a clerk and not the function of a CC they should coach and council that clerk instead.

CC's aren't and can't be baby sitters and they can't force someone to do their job and shouldn't be held responsible for that.

 
That has been the problem with PHX... Leads get the responsibility for all that goes wrong with the gate, but then are given no authority to reprimand or even warn anyone on their team.  The Leads and the Teams are part of the same union, so obviously, that's not going to work.  The "chain of command" has been grossly flawed by such arrangements, and instead of adding additional supervisors and managers, Leads have been given an expanded role, which has reduce the Span of Control any non-union manager types would be able to monitor.  In such an arrangement the default response is that the Lead is responsible, and the burden is upon the Lead to prove otherwise.
 
Not surprising when Leads were offered to step-down into full-time positions several months ago, I would estimate 75% of those given the opportunity accepted, and the 25% who kept themselves as Leads should be presumed to have been under the influence of some illicit substance.  It has been a shame as some of those Leads were really good and kept the operation running smoothly, but I don't blame any Lead for stepping down and removing the burden for which Management has been unwilling to handle.

 

[lax]

You see NOW we are in agreement. I think if a clerk is "purposely" jacking around and not doing their job then they don't care about the crew or the CC. Since the CC has the bulls-eye on his back he could ultimately be the one to get fired. I personally have ZERO issue with the CC going to management if all other options have been exhausted. The CC of course should try and straighten out the problem himself first, then let a Steward do a "courtesy" talking to that guy, maybe even twice and after that all bet's are off.
The way I think of it is if I was a CC you ARE NOT going to cost me MY job!!!!

Spoke to the ramp manager yesterday and he seems to continue to be more in line with the idea that it's us and not them who are losing the interest in taking a CC position? I told him my opinion that I think it's more of a 50/50 on that one but he still seems to not get it into his mind to wrap around the thought.
I think besides the nit picking which he did admit they are doing somewhat it might also be that many people are a little nervous about all of the automation using ramp link now and are shying away from that?
Honestly though there are some people here who are lax about performing their jobs and that problem get's thrust on the CC rather than the clerk messing around. I think management should conduct better investigations to the root causes of delays and if they determine that the failure was due to a clerk and not the function of a CC they should coach and council that clerk instead.
CC's aren't and can't be baby sitters and they can't force someone to do their job and shouldn't be held responsible for that.

Agreed but you know the problem in Miami is multifaceted. Plenty of decision makers who have no clue what's going on on the ramp, more interested in one's vest and cap than an operable fmc. Also probably more slugs per capita at mia than anywhere else in the aa system imho. ie on a gate near D27 a few weeks ago a guy missed not 1 but 2 flights. Of course there were no repercussions, only that the crew had to offload a 777 with 3 guys. Who wants to be cc and have to deal with that crap everyday. Ever notice that when cc bids come up for dfw you need like 50yrs to win one? If youre thinking about taking cc at mia my advice would be to learn some español and be willing to spring for lots of coladas at moments notice lol!

 

[WeAAsles]

Agreed but you know the problem in Miami is multifaceted. Plenty of decision makers who have no clue what's going on on the ramp, more interested in one's vest and cap than an operable fmc. Also probably more slugs per capita at mia than anywhere else in the aa system imho. ie on a gate near D27 a few weeks ago a guy missed not 1 but 2 flights. Of course there were no repercussions, only that the crew had to offload a 777 with 3 guys. Who wants to be cc and have to deal with that crap everyday. Ever notice that when cc bids come up for dfw you need like 50yrs to win one? If youre thinking about taking cc at mia my advice would be to learn some español and be willing to spring for lots of coladas at moments notice lol!

LOL. You just knocked me off my chair with laughing so hard. Can't agree that you need to know espanol "but it helps" and I don't do coladas. Those things get my heart racing and my mouth already races fast enough. You certainly did nail a lot of the problems here though.

Yesterday the Ramp Managers secretary asked me if I wanted to be a CC? I'd have to say that they're getting a little desperate if even she is asking people now?

I might start learning D1 when I get back from vacation? Doesn't make sense for me to take CC for a lousy .57 cents per hour above the D1 rate. I lose the shift and days off I like and I can't tell management to shove it and dump the responsibility if I'm wearing that patch. With 20 years I could get D1 probably every day? Between that and CC it's $91.00 per month before taxes.

Not worth the headache to have that bullseye painted on my shoulder. 

 

[lax]

LOL. You just knocked me off my chair with laughing so hard. Can't agree that you need to know espanol "but it helps" and I don't do coladas. Those things get my heart racing and my mouth already races fast enough. You certainly did nail a lot of the problems here though.
Yesterday the Ramp Managers secretary asked me if I wanted to be a CC? I'd have to say that they're getting a little desperate if even she is asking people now?
I might start learning D1 when I get back from vacation? Doesn't make sense for me to take CC for a lousy .57 cents per hour above the D1 rate. I lose the shift and days off I like and I can't tell management to shove it and dump the responsibility if I'm wearing that patch. With 20 years I could get D1 probably every day? Between that and CC it's $91.00 per month before taxes.
Not worth the headache to have that bullseye painted on my shoulder.

I hear you! They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a
different result. I know they have to continue to post vacancies, per the contract. But at some point you'd think someone in leadership would say "hmmm we keep posting 12, 17, even 20 cc vacancies at mia and only 1 or 2 fsc's take it. I wonder why thats happening?" Maybe a side letter to incentivize the job more. Maybe going back to old-school, where csm's aren't allowed on your gate unless you call them. How about an open dialogue with management and current cc's to explore some things that might actually encourage senior guys into those positions. Sheesh who'd want to run a biz where the 15, 20, 30yr guys don't want any part of leading the charge. Instead you get 2 and 3yr guys who barely remember their own employee number, responsible for loading 300 mil dollar aircraft. It makes no sense to me but seems like an unending problem. Last thing mia needs is for guys in orange vests directing traffic but unfortunately it looks as though thats what its coming to lol