2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[Black Magic]

Yep the TWU is going to give a quick crash course on how to negotiate with AA management with MBA degrees that took years to achieve. Haha yawn. Just because a person has 30 years on the ramp and a TWU crash course in negotiations does not put them in the same league. Besides the TWU already signed a lackluster deal with AA that happened without the membership so negiations are frivolous at this point.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok since someone asked this on another thread for mechanics. Let's do a few equations here and see what we come up with for Fleet?

Let's start with the industry averaging and I'm asking if people think this is correct?

TOP BASE FORMULAS: With .75 added to UAL longevity and .30 added to AA longevity

AA $23.78 contractual raise before averaging.
----------------
UAL $25.35
DL $25.28
US $23.48

IF I'm right as I read the contract US should no longer be added into the averaging formula since the company has gained the single operating certificate? So without US in the equation averaging UAL and DL comes out to $25.31 as the new TOP Base rate in September? Thoughts? If US is or winds up being included in the formula that comes out to $24.70.

Now the company has been stating 7% above the TOP Delta BASE rate. $25.28 + 7% = $27.04 IF that's ultimately what our negotiators settle on at the end of JCBA talks and we vote it in.

 

 

[cltrat]

there's also that 4% the other work groups got

 

[WeAAsles]

there's also that 4% the other work groups got

cltrat the 4% is negated in the wording of 7% above DL's top rate. It's not going to be 11% as both the Pilots and FA's are only 7% above. The 4% was added after Delta announced they were going to give out 4%.

 

[WeAAsles]

As a reference when people look over my formula and the reason why I believe that the US rate should no longer be counted into the formula, look at pages 22 thru 24 of the TWU CBA for Fleet.

Notice the wording and the formula in regards to UAL/CAL and how it only includes in the example ONE rate. When the agreement was reached remember that AA was not planning on a merger with US which now should have the same language as the UAL/CAL situation?

At least in my (humble) opinion?

http://twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

 

[AANOTOK]

If I'm making $23.30 now and you say I should/could/will be making $25.31 come Septembers industry average, call me a tad bit pessimistic. If what the companies has been touting Delta + 7% ($27.04) call me highly pessimistic. If that turns out to be the case ($27.04) I can only imagine what we will negotiate away.
 
I hope I'm wrong and would love to admit to it, even enjoying the crow I would eat. But....we shall see.

 

[WeAAsles]

If I'm making $23.30 now and you say I should/could/will be making $25.31 come Septembers industry average, call me a tad bit pessimistic. If what the companies has been touting Delta + 7% ($27.04) call me highly pessimistic. If that turns out to be the case ($27.04) I can only imagine what we will negotiate away.
 
I hope I'm wrong and would love to admit to it, even enjoying the crow I would eat. But....we shall see.

The averaging would have zero to do with JCBA talks. That conversation is about interpreting the language and how the formula works out? It's already contractual.

As far as the JCBA talks I've always said that we need to be highly aware of what's written in the full text language and how that can or will affect us?

 

[robbedagain]

this is just rumors Ive heard,  they want to do away with catering and close some cities.    if that were true  given that the company is making huge profits  then in my own honest opin  there is no flippin way we should give any of that up.    

 

[WeAAsles]

this is just rumors Ive heard,  they want to do away with catering and close some cities.    if that were true  given that the company is making huge profits  then in my own honest opin  there is no flippin way we should give any of that up.

Forget the rumors Robbed. They're a dime a dozen and everyone seems to have one of those in their back pocket.

 

[Hope777]

Robbed, no matter what happens, if it comes to a Vote, your Brothers and Sisters in the Hubs will sell you out on the the Dime!

 

[WeAAsles]

Robbed, no matter what happens, if it comes to a Vote, your Brothers and Sisters in the Hubs will sell you out on the the Dime!

Not every Hub member has that mentality there brother. (Bigger Picture)

 

[robbedagain]

I don't buy the rumors    ill take the wait n see approach    thanks brothers 

 

[Hope777]

Not every Hub member has that mentality there brother. (Bigger Picture)

AA I hope for the best BUT if History Repeats itself, your US Brothers and Sisters care only about themselves.  If it comes down to closing cities to save Hub Jobs, we all know which way they will vote!

 

[bob@las-AA]

Ok since someone asked this on another thread for mechanics. Let's do a few equations here and see what we come up with for Fleet?

Let's start with the industry averaging and I'm asking if people think this is correct?

TOP BASE FORMULAS: With .75 added to UAL longevity and .30 added to AA longevity

AA $23.78 contractual raise before averaging.
----------------
UAL $25.35
DL $25.28
US $23.48

IF I'm right as I read the contract US should no longer be added into the averaging formula since the company has gained the single operating certificate? So without US in the equation averaging UAL and DL comes out to $25.31 as the new TOP Base rate in September? Thoughts? If US is or winds up being included in the formula that comes out to $24.70.

Now the company has been stating 7% above the TOP Delta BASE rate. $25.28 + 7% = $27.04 IF that's ultimately what our negotiators settle on at the end of JCBA talks and we vote it in.

 

Sir, if your wage numbers are correct,
the contract has a formula,
I have written it in EXCEL, 
This DELTA +7 is by all accounts is just another rumor, fabricated and designed to give the people hope.
The idea of a %10.8 raise is very lofty and just unrealistic, you never mentioned the %4 that Doug is waving at us at the finish line.
 
What is a more conservative and better grounded idea of what might happen is.
 
The wage gap as it is written in the contract + the %4.0 that is waiting for us at the finish line.
 
$25.38 or %8.09 increase.
 
 
=ROUND(23.48*(ROUND(((((25.35+25.28+23.49)/3)-23.78)/23.48),3)+1),2)*1.04

 

[WeAAsles]

Sir, if your wage numbers are correct,
the contract has a formula,
I have written it in EXCEL, 
This DELTA +7 is by all accounts is just another rumor, fabricated and designed to give the people hope.
The idea of a %10.8 raise is very lofty and just unrealistic, you never mentioned the %4 that Doug is waving at us at the finish line.
 
What is a more conservative and better grounded idea of what might happen is.
 
The wage gap as it is written in the contract + the %4.0 that is waiting for us at the finish line.
 
$25.38 or %8.09 increase.
 
 
=ROUND(23.48*(ROUND(((((25.35+25.28+23.49)/3)-23.78)/23.48),3)+1),2)*1.04

Of course it's not lofty. Right now at this moment we are currently about 9% below the average in TOP base rate as compared to Delta and United. (Excluding max longevity) What you are forgetting is the first stage which is the Industry averaging in September that takes us up to matching those carriers. That language is a contractual obligation.

The 7% or 3% and then 4% added on to the average rate we will secure is for the exchange of Profit Sharing. Yes we can say that we had already exchanged that for the wages we received in the past but the formula's accepted by both the Pilot's and FA's were 7% above the TOP Delta rate in BASE pay.

In regards to the Profit that AA stands to make at least for what appears to be the foreseeable future it's extremely reasonable and even slightly conservative to expect the compensation that I posted in my equations.

Don't sell yourselves short.