2015 AMT Discussion

[topDawg]

Those numbers arent 55% of the work, its 55% of the maintenance spend, big difference.
 
We never did anything but jtd-8, and tays inhouse, never had  the CMFs, RRs or GE for the 737-300/400 757s or 767.

uh no not really. It one of the better ways to see what is being done in-house vs what isn't. 
 
and I know what you did and didn't do. If the IAM was so great they would have done engines just like every other major carrier out there. 

 

[southwind]

Before chapter 11 only thing outsourced was engines.
Another WT clone who doesn't understand chapter 11.
You have two choices negotiate by law or face abrogation.
Easy for you to throw stones when you didn't work at US and didn't face what we did.
Are you drinking the WT koolade?

Easy for you to cast stones, in the DL forums, though you don't work for DL or "Officially" represent the IAM, yet there you are, day after day!

 

[Overspeed]

topdawg,
AMTs per aircraft is not a perfect metric but I would not say that AA is not that unproductive that it drives a significant part of the gap. A detailed look in to productivity and the way an airline runs it's MX program does affect HC. Since no two airlines run the same MX program then there will be gaps that fall in to that category. 50,000 foot level AMTs per aircraft is a good indicator I believe.

 

[topDawg]

topdawg,
AMTs per aircraft is not a perfect metric but I would not say that AA is not that unproductive that it drives a significant part of the gap. A detailed look in to productivity and the way an airline runs it's MX program does affect HC. Since no two airlines run the same MX program then there will be gaps that fall in to that category. 50,000 foot level AMTs per aircraft is a good indicator I believe.

While you are right that every airline is going to do things differently, you never want to see staffing levels drastically differently like that.   
 
6-7 people per tail is a hell of a number. If it was 1-2 that would be a different story (because of the amount of work AA does in-house vs its peers)
 
You have to look at all of the stats, for sure, but as it is DL and AA should be fairly close on the per tail staffing because they do a comparable amount of work. (obviously AA should be a little higher because they do more work in-house) 

 

[JABORD]

Yes, I am an A&P and I know all of these items you are speaking of. However I guess I did not make myself clear. I will restate.
 
Under the JCBA , that is the new contract the ASSociation is going to get us, does anyone know or believe that an A&P License is going to be a requirement to work in TUL, DFW or CLT etc. where there is other than a line environment?

Let me answer your question with a question, and I apoligize if this appears harsh friend, but would you really be asking that question had the TWboo and the previous abuses of 'role call' in TUL toward the "pay for jobs" campaign not allowed for SRP's?

 

[bigjets]

Everybody makes a good point, but all of that was in the old airline industry. We are in the new airline industry where there is a lot less airline employees and a lot more work that is contracted out, as well as the employees being more productive.

Now we are forced to have the association. That said, let's see what the association can accomplish until the AMFA organizers are ready for a drive without the OH bases protecting the TWU, the writing on the wall is bad for TULE. Maybe the association will do such a good job we won't want AMFA, we will see.

Doug has been saying delta or united +7 whichever is higher. Delta was higher so it was delta +7, then delta gave a 14% raise (no union involvement) so then Doug said delta +3 because delta lowered profit sharing. Now that united is giving profit sharing, are we at united +7 ?

 

[topDawg]

Everybody makes a good point, but all of that was in the old airline industry. We are in the new airline industry where there is a lot less airline employees and a lot more work that is contracted out, as well as the employees being more productive.

So you are saying that the world has changed thus only American can't do 55% of its work in-house. Hasn't effected DL or UA as much? 

but the airline that you pay is going to be based on can not only do 35% of its own work in-house it can do 700M bucks worth of airline work.

Things haven't changed to the point you can't do your work (and others if your management wasn't so stupid) in-house. Yes your base maintenance and shops would clearly have to become much more productive but this "new industry" stuff is crap.
No math proves it.
its also sad your willing to pay for your raise from your own pocket. Why anyone working for an airline posting 18% margins would do that is crazy to me.
 

Now we are forced to have the association. That said, let's see what the association can accomplish until the AMFA organizers are ready for a drive without the OH bases protecting the TWU, the writing on the wall is bad for TULE. Maybe the association will do such a good job we won't want AMFA, we will see.{/quote]
question, has the company said its going to hit Tulsa or is it just what you guys want to happen?
Economics of hitting Tulsa hard make no sense. If something gets cut my money is on PIT. Not a hub. Not in a very good geographic location and I would bet money higher faculty costs/taxes.

quote name="bigjets" post="1201018" timestamp="1445880065"]
Doug has been saying delta or united +7 whichever is higher. Delta was higher so it was delta +7, then delta gave a 14% raise (no union involvement) so then Doug said delta +3 because delta lowered profit sharing. Now that united is giving profit sharing, are we at united +7 ?

United has been giving profit sharing IIRC
and the new TA looks like it cuts it. (and IMHO I would be shocked if they voted in that turd of a deal.)

However I expect AA to give you guys something like that. (minus the 7 weeks of vacation, worse scope that comes from US air and no profit sharing)
annnnnnndddddd some here will be solid yes voters.      

 

[Buck]

Let me answer your question with a question, and I apoligize if this appears harsh friend, but would you really be asking that question had the TWboo and the previous abuses of 'role call' in TUL toward the "pay for jobs" campaign not allowed for SRP's?'

I don't believe there is such a thing as a harsh question. First I was booted out of the JT-8 Engine Teardown shop by the SRP program. so I do remember the "pay for jobs" campaign.
I totally agree that is was abusive . 
 
But what I am trying to ask is not related to any historical issues. From the formation of the new airline, where the USAir management started taking the reins, and if I have heard correctly, that the new AA has not renewed its's FAR 121 Certificate. Does anyone have any information about the requirement of A&P License as a condition of employment in the aircraft OH areas?
 
If the TWboo was in charge of the ASSociation then my question would not be relevant.

 

[Buck]

Everybody makes a good point, but all of that was in the old airline industry. We are in the new airline industry where there is a lot less airline employees and a lot more work that is contracted out, as well as the employees being more productive.

Now we are forced to have the association. That said, let's see what the association can accomplish until the AMFA organizers are ready for a drive without the OH bases protecting the TWU, the writing on the wall is bad for TULE. Maybe the association will do such a good job we won't want AMFA, we will see.

Doug has been saying delta or united +7 whichever is higher. Delta was higher so it was delta +7, then delta gave a 14% raise (no union involvement) so then Doug said delta +3 because delta lowered profit sharing. Now that united is giving profit sharing, are we at united +7 ?

Interesting, so you are saying that once there is a 800-1000 AMT layoff in TUL, that getting the AMFA Association in at the new AA will be a cinch? Could be, but the ASSociation had better come up with an early out to rid the Line of the actual blockage, which would be the senior TWU believers in most cases. Of course getting the company to agree will cost the remaining members of the hope of a DL + 7% (3%) another percentage or so.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 

deleted

 

[Buck]

deleted

Funny thing is that the B-Scale got whacked before they even became employees, they just didn't know.
b-scale 
JABORD, were you a TWU member in 1983-1985?

 

[topDawg]

But what I am trying to ask is not related to any historical issues. From the formation of the new airline, where the USAir management started taking the reins, and if I have heard correctly, that the new AA has not renewed its's FAR 121 Certificate. Does anyone have any information about the requirement of A&P License as a condition of employment in the aircraft OH areas?

Buck I think you got that number wrong.

If AA gave up its 121 certificate that means the airline would have to shut down. (the moment it happened)

Do you mean the 145 repair station certificate?

If so
you can still have non-A&Ps working under A&P on AA aircraft, parts, engines etc. It has more to do with contract work (both in-sourcing and outsourcing) than in-house work 
With said, I just checked the the FAA data base, Looks like AA still have both of its 145 certificates active. (Tulsa and Dallas/Fort Worth.)

also I have never heard of "renewing" one. It has minimum requirements to keep it (just like an A&P) but I don't think its something you have to really renew. 
 
Northwest dropped its 145 certificate in BK because they stopped doing the training and keeping the minimum staffing levels for it. 

 

[1AA]

Interesting, so you are saying that once there is a 800-1000 AMT layoff in TUL, that getting the AMFA Association in at the new AA will be a cinch? Could be, but the ASSociation had better come up with an early out to rid the Line of the actual blockage, which would be the senior TWU believers in most cases. Of course getting the company to agree will cost the remaining members of the hope of a DL + 7% (3%) another percentage or so.

It's actually more difficult to run a drive with that many people on layoff. They count towards the eligible card count. Try finding and getting them to sign a card is not that easy.

 

[Buck]

It's actually more difficult to run a drive with that many people on layoff. They count towards the eligible card count. Try finding and getting them to sign a card is not that easy.

So the best way would to have an early out so those who decide to leave are no longer on the list

 

[Buck]

Buck I think you got that number wrong.

If AA gave up its 121 certificate that means the airline would have to shut down. (the moment it happened)

Do you mean the 145 repair station certificate?

If so
you can still have non-A&Ps working under A&P on AA aircraft, parts, engines etc. It has more to do with contract work (both in-sourcing and outsourcing) than in-house work 
With said, I just checked the the FAA data base, Looks like AA still have both of its 145 certificates active. (Tulsa and Dallas/Fort Worth.)

also I have never heard of "renewing" one. It has minimum requirements to keep it (just like an A&P) but I don't think its something you have to really renew. 
 
Northwest dropped its 145 certificate in BK because they stopped doing the training and keeping the minimum staffing levels for it. 

Ok, what determines the Licensing requirements of the company? Do they have to have a certain FAR requirement,if not the A&P would stand on his own and not on
the company ticket. Iwas told that it was FAR 121, but you are right, it would shut down operations.