2015 AMT Discussion

[Buck]

The TWU pushes for TWU favored contracts, if that means TULE then yes. As many have said it is about population.
The more union members at any one station will win the vote. 
 
Scope: The Association has no Scope, until the Association has a contract. IAM scope does not protect any TWU represented employee.
If as Overspeed suggests, that the Association will have IAM scope then fine.

 

[MetalMover]

 No you said "Voting to save jobs was only temporary."
what does that mean exactly? 
 
and you say you had double the mechanics you had now? but thats bad to you. You don't want jobs you want money. You want less mechanics. 
Again you have more work that US but nearly double. If you go to their scope, simple math says, you will not come close to doubling your mechanics. 
Didn't save that.
Again I am talking work not stations.
 
I personally don't see AA moving out of TUL. DFW and CLT make more sense for base maintance but I don't see AA wanting to spend the capital to replace TUL/PIT with a big base in Dallas(more hangars, back shops and engine shops/test cells). JMO. 
I don't believe you. 
And clearly you have been taught that voting out work is a way to add jobs. Math doesn't work that way 

I must be missing something here.....Do you work for AA?

 

[topDawg]

I must be missing something here.....Do you work for AA?

Its pretty well known I'm a Delta Mechanic

Probably about as senior or more so than you.

The TWU pushes for TWU favored contracts, if that means TULE then yes. As many have said it is about population.
The more union members at any one station will win the vote. 
 
Scope: The Association has no Scope, until the Association has a contract. IAM scope does not protect any TWU represented employee.
If as Overspeed suggests, that the Association will have IAM scope then fine.

I mean that is how politics work. Unions are nothing more than political 
 
Now that the government has backed labor into the comer that they can't get out of, 60-65% yes contracts will be the norm. No need for the company or the union to go to the minimum. What are you going to do about? wait a few years to get the same turd with some tiny changes.
 
I expect AA will toss you guys a huge turd like United did with its ACS. Your all so under paid that the majority will vote for the money just to get it. Even if it means basically eliminating AA maintenance latter in life ala UA ramp.  

 

[MetalMover]

Its pretty well known I'm a Delta Mechanic

Probably about as senior or more so than you.
I mean that is how politics work. Unions are nothing more than political 
 
Now that the government has backed labor into the comer that they can't get out of, 60-65% yes contracts will be the norm. No need for the company or the union to go to the minimum. What are you going to do about? wait a few years to get the same turd with some tiny changes.
 
I expect AA will toss you guys a huge turd like United did with its ACS. Your all so under paid that the majority will vote for the money just to get it. Even if it means basically eliminating AA maintenance latter in life ala UA ramp.  

I never caught that..Thought I was arguing with an OH mech.  
What is it exactly you want the AA guys to do? 

 

[topDawg]

I never caught that..Thought I was arguing with an OH mech.  
What is it exactly you want the AA guys to do? 

Taking concessions
and yes US scope is a HUGE concession in this environment is ****. Your company is about to post a pre tax/ex specials margin of 16-18% IIRC. You or they can't tell me they need to outsource ~55-60% of the work you currently do in-house to allow you to get Delta pay.  
 
If we can do as much work in-house as we do, for the money we make, you should be able to also. Our work plus that from the 3rd party work would be = to about 25-30% scope for you guys.  So you and your union should be fighting for 25% work sent out (so you gain 10%) plus Delta pay plus 3%. 
Parker doesn't want to be an MRO? fine. Don't do other airline work. that has nothing to do with your scope. 
 
Having said that, this crap about no weekend or holidays or nights for base maintenance is stupid. If the line can work on holidays Tulsa can work on holidays. Airlines don't shut down. MROs don't shut down.  Welcome to 2015. 

 

[MetalMover]

Taking concessions
and yes US scope is a HUGE concession in this environment is ####. Your company is about to post a pre tax/ex specials margin of 16-18% IIRC. You or they can't tell me they need to outsource ~55-60% of the work you currently do in-house to allow you to get Delta pay.  
 
If we can do as much work in-house as we do, for the money we make, you should be able to also. Our work plus that from the 3rd party work would be = to about 25-30% scope for you guys.  So you and your union should be fighting for 25% work sent out (so you gain 10%) plus Delta pay plus 3%. 
Parker doesn't want to be an MRO? fine. Don't do other airline work. that has nothing to do with your scope. 
 
Having said that, this crap about no weekend or holidays or nights for base maintenance is stupid. If the line can work on holidays Tulsa can work on holidays. Airlines don't shut down. MROs don't shut down.  Welcome to 2015. 

They can afford the pay without anything in return. As Parker said in a town hall meeting.....Getting the DL + 7 pay doesn't mean there WON'T be changes. 
Here lies the problem, do we just vote no, get no pay increase, wait til 2018 when the contract expires, then start section 6 negotiations which can last for years??
 
look how long the UA/CO guys have been at it and the have the SAME union.

 

[Buck]

Its pretty well known I'm a Delta Mechanic

Probably about as senior or more so than you.
I mean that is how politics work. Unions are nothing more than political 
 
Now that the government has backed labor into the comer that they can't get out of, 60-65% yes contracts will be the norm. No need for the company or the union to go to the minimum. What are you going to do about? wait a few years to get the same turd with some tiny changes.
 
I expect AA will toss you guys a huge turd like United did with its ACS. Your all so under paid that the majority will vote for the money just to get it. Even if it means basically eliminating AA maintenance latter in life ala UA ramp.  

Unions are political businesses, it is about money, but not totally as a revenue source to operate and take in profit. The purpose is to generate funding for the Democratic Party. 
If the members dues were used, even within the Democrat Party to sustain the membership that might be okay. But the funds go into many areas that many do not care to support.
 
I would like to hear more about your theory the "government has backed labor into the comer"

 

[Buck]

They can afford the pay without anything in return. As Parker said in a town hall meeting.....Getting the DL + 7 pay doesn't mean there WON'T be changes. 
Here lies the problem, do we just vote no, get no pay increase, wait til 2018 when the contract expires, then start section 6 negotiations which can last for years??
 
look how long the UA/CO guys have been at it and the have the SAME union.

TWU will take the money....

 

[topDawg]

They can afford the pay without anything in return. As Parker said in a town hall meeting.....Getting the DL + 7 pay doesn't mean there WON'T be changes.

I know they can afford the pay without anything in return. Again You are talking about a company who is going to make what? 8 billion? 10 billion? this year. After giving the pilots and FAs big raises.....
He is saying there wont be changes because he expects you guys to take the money and run. Look at this hand while i slap you with the other.
Have you seen any other of your peer groups take a 25-30% cut in work they do in-house like Parker is possibly asking from you?
So if he can get the FAs, Pilots and now above wing to get TAs (and contracts for the first two) without outsourcing a huge amount, why are you okay with getting the same pay percentages but are expected to cut a third of your work? That makes no sense to me.
 

Here lies the problem, do we just vote no, get no pay increase, wait til 2018 when the contract expires, then start section 6 negotiations which can last for years??

Parker wont drag this out even if you do vote down the first TA. He wants labor to be merged and done. Notice how he has handled the other unions.......
what you need to worry about is how your union(s) operate.  
 

look how long the UA/CO guys have been at it and the have the SAME union.

UA/CO were in a different ball park for one. (there CEO didn't care about getting labor merged. The Mechanics aren't the only ones, FAs also lack a post merger contract)

but I don't think you will find Ua guys upset they haven't been given turd after turd adding little by little to get the minimum like the IAM did to there ACS.

 

[topDawg]

Unions are political businesses, it is about money, but not totally as a revenue source to operate and take in profit. The purpose is to generate funding for the Democratic Party. 
If the members dues were used, even within the Democrat Party to sustain the membership that might be okay. But the funds go into many areas that many do not care to support.
 
I would like to hear more about your theory the "government has backed labor into the comer"

If you don't get a contract do you think the NMB is going to let you guys go on strike? 

 

[MetalMover]

If you don't get a contract do you think the NMB is going to let you guys go on strike? 

Those days are gone. I doubt we will ever see any airline union getting released. Look at UA.

 

[topDawg]

Those days are gone. I doubt we will ever see any airline union getting released. Look at UA.

thus you would say the government/NMB is backing you into a comer right? 
 
You have little leverage. 
 
At least AA has a CEO who wants to get the merger done. UA didn't have one. (and their financial results show it)
I expect Parker will try to follow Delta and not go down the road he was done at US and the road UA has gone done. Not sure Wall street will put up with it. 

 

[MetalMover]

thus you would say the government/NMB is backing you into a comer right? 
 
You have little leverage. 
 
At least AA has a CEO who wants to get the merger done. UA didn't have one. (and their financial results show it)
I expect Parker will try to follow Delta and not go down the road he was done at US and the road UA has gone done. Not sure Wall street will put up with it. 

Oh, believe me, I know we have no leverage. 
Time will tell with respect to a JCBA.

 

[Buck]

If there is any "Strike Leverage", then the IAM mechanics will have to teach us.....

 

[Roadking5560]

How about you? Wanna take a pay cut to save jobs?

Negative.  I believe we've gone that route too many times.  There's going to sacrifices to get us up to industry standard (or better) and we as members have to be prepared for that.