2015 AMT Discussion

[Roadking5560]

I don't think it will be limited to high timers in Tulsa.  The frenzy has just started. 

 

[ATD]

Don't you guys understand that the union does not control the closing of bases.Union might influence but that was with the old AA. These guys are different. Just look at TAESL.

 

[Buck]

I don't think it will be limited to high timers in Tulsa.  The frenzy has just started. 

No but it will be the high timers across the system first....

 

[Buck]

Don't you guys understand that the union does not control the closing of bases.Union might influence but that was with the old AA. These guys are different. Just look at TAESL.

Maybe but to say that as an example: that the union has no say at keeping Tulsa open would be crazy.
 
Historically when the company makes a decision that affects Tulsa, they collaborate with the union and the state of Oklahoma
to keep as many people employed as possible, even at the expense of contractual scope, wages and benefits.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

OldGuy, I think we can blame the TWU ATD for the divide and conquer that exists between line and OH.....I guess the same can be said for the divide and conquer between any work group. I have said many times in the past that each employee is important to any company in a specific way. Some jobs are without a doubt more responsible and, yes, more important than others. The TWU, as with any other industrial union believes in the "WE ALL PAY THE SAME FOR A QUART OF MILK" and "HALF A LOAF IS BETTER THAN NO LOAF" socialist propaganda BS. That has been a major factor. Satisfy the mass majorities and screw the minorities so everyone is equal......and therefore no one is "better" than the next person.
But let's be open and honest here, OH had been used to being the super majority and all it ever took was the line to maybe get GEO pay or a bigger line premium and you and every other OH mech would have never heard anything from the line guys.
 But TUL wanted no part of that. Now I am sure not every OH mechanic was against it, but it sure as hell was the TUL leadership who had a problem with it...Hell, even MIA had a problem with it because they weren't getting as much as the NE and CA guys.
But that is the past, we now have to look at the present and the future as well. The sad reality of it all is that OH is being diminished by attrition. All these new aircraft coming on line will never see heavy maintenance. Heavy maintenance intervals have been greatly prolonged and engine reliability greatly increased. 
If outsourcing 100% line in favor of 100% in house OH was the better, smarter way of operating. then every airline that ever went BK and every other carrier would have been doing it already. Instead, the carriers all chose to outsource OH at a greater percentage than the line.
I have never advocated outsourcing ANY job. Airline workers have been getting shafted since the early 80's. It is not going to change or reverse course. It is the new airline industry with respect to outsourcing and OH seems to be a main issue. I sympathize with all those affected who will have to relocate. 
But the reality of this debate is that voting to save jobs HAS NOT WORKED IN THE PAST  AND WILL NOT WORK NOW....It was only deferred to a later time.
 
What I am saying  that we will not be duped again. And this time around it won't just be the LAA people voting on a TWUL "VOTE YES OR ELSE!" pos contract. It will the LUS people voting. And let's be honest, they already had PIT hit the hardest and major job loss as well,  and frankly I don't think they could care any less about TUL. And another major factor is that we are not dealing with the old AA management who had their "special" relationship with the TWU. 
I apologize if this offends the OH guys, but the airline industry has been transformed and voting to save jobs does not work.  

The whole thing has just gotten stupid.  I have talked to many people in Tulsa about all contract TAs when they come out and I can say I did not hear of anyone who had a problem with the line getting GEO pay.  The retiree medical for me personally came down to the fact that you don't preserve a benefit for some and not for all.  I was over 50 at the time so I would have had retiree medical.  (Until the next contract came out of course).  I am also not saying to vote a certain way to save jobs because they are never saved.  I also refuse to take a bullet to my own head so someone else can get over.  Such as the 2010 TA where line got a big raise in line pay and overhaul got a $3000 lump sum payment.  But some have criticized those like me who voted no for that TA because it kept them from getting their line pay increase.  So you guys can have it.  I am done trying to convince anyone to find common ground so we can fight.  The company and the association love it.  I guess we'll see what happens and I bet there will be lots of crying and calling people out for selling out someone else.  I am ashamed to be associated with some of these guys.  

 

[Duke787]

The whole thing has just gotten stupid.  I have talked to many people in Tulsa about all contract TAs when they come out and I can say I did not hear of anyone who had a problem with the line getting GEO pay.  The retiree medical for me personally came down to the fact that you don't preserve a benefit for some and not for all.  I was over 50 at the time so I would have had retiree medical.  (Until the next contract came out of course).  I am also not saying to vote a certain way to save jobs because they are never saved.  I also refuse to take a bullet to my own head so someone else can get over.  Such as the 2010 TA where line got a big raise in line pay and overhaul got a $3000 lump sum payment.  But some have criticized those like me who voted no for that TA because it kept them from getting their line pay increase.  So you guys can have it.  I am done trying to convince anyone to find common ground so we can fight.  The company and the association love it.  I guess we'll see what happens and I bet there will be lots of crying and calling people out for selling out someone else.  I am ashamed to be associated with some of these guys.

Blah blah blah

First contract where it looks like the line will be taken care of and TULE looks like they're in for bad times, all of a sudden we are poor union brothers. Who cares.

Ya, that was brutal, but a couple of decades of TULE getting taken care of at my expense will do that.

 

[Buck]

Blah blah blah

First contract where it looks like the line will be taken care of and TULE looks like they're in for bad times, all of a sudden we are poor union brothers. Who cares.

Ya, that was brutal, but a couple of decades of TULE getting taken care of at my expense will do that.

Curious, are you an A&P Mechanic or a Machinist or what?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Blah blah blah

First contract where it looks like the line will be taken care of and TULE looks like they're in for bad times, all of a sudden we are poor union brothers. Who cares.

Ya, that was brutal, but a couple of decades of TULE getting taken care of at my expense will do that.

I really feel bad for Bob Owens.  He has to represent people like you.

 

[dfw gen]

Curious, are you an A&P Mechanic or a Machinist or what?

hes just a bitter mechanic that was laid off i think.

 

[Duke787]

Curious, are you an A&P Mechanic or a Machinist or what?

 
Think about it, and if you can't figure it out call a tech crew chief.

 

[Duke787]

I really feel bad for Bob Owens.  He has to represent people like you.

 
I feel bad for us, where we have a guy like Owens, who only tells the membership what they want to hear, instead of telling us the position we are in. Remember when Owens said, AA will never be able to find enough open bays to bring our OH work. Didn't seem like that was to big of a problem for AA. 
 
Not bitter !!!!!   Very happy, especially when we get our raise. I would never be one of those idiots who sit and complain all day.

 

[Buck]

 
Think about it, and if you can't figure it out call a tech crew chief.

That makes it sound like you are a Tech Crew Chief.
 
I guess you feel like you alone took a hit?
 
Raise? How much?

 

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

I can't even get Bob Owens to state just 1 thing good that Local 591 has done to make our work life better. 
I guess that is because everything they have done has just made their life better. 
1. gave themselves a pay raise before they even did any work.
2. took away the bulletin board and put in on the web so MOST of the people will not be informed.
3. did not put back the locals that they all said was wrong of little to do, but when they won. it was a GREAT thing. 

 

[bigjets]

Funny Bob was good at under minding the negotiators, now we don't here from him. When gilboy was a union president, bob called an international stooge, now bob is the 591 guy and gilboy is a crew chief working on the floor.

 

[1AA]

I feel bad for us, where we have a guy like Owens, who only tells the membership what they want to hear, instead of telling us the position we are in. Remember when Owens said, AA will never be able to find enough open bays to bring our OH work. Didn't seem like that was to big of a problem for AA. 
 
Not bitter !!!!!   Very happy, especially when we get our raise. I would never be one of those idiots who sit and complain all day.

Gee that sounds like local 514 telling it's members in Tulsa what they want to hear. Vote yes to save your jobs and the line guys are your enemies not the company.