2015 AMT Discussion

[conehead777]

I totally agree with the need for a rethink with our "leaders".  It seems the new yokels we get to replace the old ones aren't any better.  They talk the game prior to getting in, but soon enough they are of the same mold as the old.  They're in it for themselves getting their weekends off (they're "right" according to a top local union official.  Meanwhile when we need a steward on the weekends, no one can be found.  Wonderful leadership at its best.

they need to be held accountable.we should get to vote who's in the Intl and if they do not do what members want throw them out. There pay should be The same that they negotiated for there members but we did not get a vote on the asso. There is a union that makes what there members make and you get to vote who's in charge that's amfa where the members are in charge

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The AFl-CIO is not in the business to help members. . The teamsters told them to pound sand. AFL-CIO is a mirror image of what the democratic party has become socialists. Socialists do not promote skill they want everyone to be the same.Except the ones running the show.

 
Yes, the teamsters did leave the AFL-CIO, but as current member I can tell you they, and the Change To Win coalition are no better because of it.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

This statement is why I'm for non Union, except for AMFA. When I say peers, I mean AMTs at other airlines, I compare percentages for raises and 401Ks with other work groups at AA. We should actually fall in some place behind pilots and above everyone else, because of education skill and responsibility.

What I believe is if Tulsa wants AA to have a 100% OH, then maybe TUL should have wage and benefit packages like other MRO facilities. By saying NO to those wages you are killing jobs. By wanting line mechs to accept less pay so OH can have same pay, you're trying to create a socialist utopia.

That sir is unAmerican.


Besides, when has trading pay, work rules, and creating new categories of mechs saved jobs?
GO FOR THE MONEY!!!!!!!!

Vote like a line mechanic, because more then likely you will be one soon. Writing on the wall. Like when AA says they're parking 757 and using GEs on 777-300, TAESL closing was just a fore gone conclusion. When AA already sends wide body OH to China and buys new airplanes that don't require OH for years, AA hasn't said where the A320s will be overhauled, Doug says AA isn't in the MRO business, AA even outsources human resources, This is all hand writing on the wall. If AA was outsourcing all of its line Maint I would be applying at flight check, someone has to do the line work.

Remember TUL doesn't have the numbers any longer, the IAM is in charge for next two years, they already have a 100% line 50% OH scope at usair. This new contract will not be like the past, we are a different company with a different "union". Hopefully better then the last. We will see.

Funny.  I don't work at an MRO.  I am an airline mechanic for American Airlines and have the same license you have.  You want to lower my wages because I am overhaul?  Thanks "Brother".  It is not me keeping you from making what other AMTs make.  It is your company and your union.  Today they outsource me (with your blessing) and tomorrow they outsource you.  Don't think it could happen?  How about 25% line outsourced along with 25% overhaul?  That sound fair?  How about we outsource 50% line and 0% overhaul?  I just love it when you guys think AA will break the bank for you if you just get rid of overhaul.  If you have not noticed, US Air/AA does not like AMTs at all.  None of us.  But keep blaming me and drop me in the grease.  I would go along with 100% overhaul outsource as long as all line stations are opened up for bid company wide.  How about that?  Then all us slugs in Tulsa could get our choice of line stations.  Like you did. 

 

[Rogallo]

Is it time to retire yet?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You will not save overhaul.

You may save it, but you will not make line wages. Period. Does it suck, yes. That ship sailed back when Dole was DOT, but I digress. The big unions will want to keep up headcount, not wages.

There us no requirement for an A&P sign off on each work card. There is for any logbook writeup on the line.

You guys really need to educate yourself on the FAR'S.

 

[bigjets]

Funny.  I don't work at an MRO.  I am an airline mechanic for American Airlines and have the same license you have.  You want to lower my wages because I am overhaul?  Thanks "Brother".  It is not me keeping you from making what other AMTs make.  It is your company and your union.  Today they outsource me (with your blessing) and tomorrow they outsource you.  Don't think it could happen?  How about 25% line outsourced along with 25% overhaul?  That sound fair?  How about we outsource 50% line and 0% overhaul?  I just love it when you guys think AA will break the bank for you if you just get rid of overhaul.  If you have not noticed, US Air/AA does not like AMTs at all.  None of us.  But keep blaming me and drop me in the grease.  I would go along with 100% overhaul outsource as long as all line stations are opened up for bid company wide.  How about that?  Then all us slugs in Tulsa could get our choice of line stations.  Like you did. 

 
So did you get all your Tulsa break room rhetoric out?
 
You are an A&P mech who does MRO work at AA, just like the MCTs are A&Ps making about $45 an hour, which is what their peers (other MCTs at other airlines) make. You are an OH mech I'm a Line mech. Just like the TWU created the SRP/OSM mechanic with the TUL OK they are doing MRO work at MRO wages while you get line mech wages doing MRO work, but I don't want to take less money AGAIN to save OH, only to see OH stations close.  Funny how TUL has been the TWUs strength for every AMFA drive, but now the TWU is a line mechs union, yes old guy we recognize that you signed AMFA cards.
 
I don't want to see anyone outsourced, the hand writing is on the wall, it's just a fact of life, i don't want to get older, but yet I do. The 100% line and 50% scope is not my idea, it's what the other half of our union negotiated at the other half of our company. Don't blame me, I'm the non-union guy. As far as going to whatever line station you want, you have had the chance to transfer over the decades, but you chose to ride it out in TUL, now you can suffer threw a base closing or layoff like other stations in the past like MCI STL,DFW SFO,MIA, BNA, RDU, DTW, MSP, DEN, CLE, AFW, TAESL,etc etc and go to the stations that has an opening or has the lowest seniority, and if you look at DFW it's pretty senior there, and DWH looks like they're getting about 120 extra guys, come to Chicago we always take care of the guys that get laid off, and with the big raise I think we are going to get, Chicago will be nice.
 
I know you're not expecting a special deal just because you work at Tulsa.
 
I don't know where this idea comes out that USair hates mechs? They had a better contract then us after going through two bankruptcy's. I've heard of several mechs getting fired recently, but yet they get their jobs back, oh yeah they're just looking to fire people around here. Just do your job and you'll be fine.

 

[DallasConehead]

 
 
 
You are an A&P mech who does MRO work at AA, just like the MCTs are A&Ps making about $45 an hour, which is what their peers (other MCTs at other airlines) make. You are an OH mech I'm a Line mech. You are a MRO mech making line mech wages, which is great for you, but I don't want to take less money AGAIN to save OH, only to see OH stations close.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^ This

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
So did you get all your Tulsa break room rhetoric out?
 
You are an A&P mech who does MRO work at AA, just like the MCTs are A&Ps making about $45 an hour, which is what their peers (other MCTs at other airlines) make. You are an OH mech I'm a Line mech. Just like the TWU created the SRP/OSM mechanic with the TUL OK they are doing MRO work at MRO wages while you get line mech wages doing MRO work, but I don't want to take less money AGAIN to save OH, only to see OH stations close.  Funny how TUL has been the TWUs strength for every AMFA drive, but now the TWU is a line mechs union, yes old guy we recognize that you signed AMFA cards.
 
I don't want to see anyone outsourced, the hand writing is on the wall, it's just a fact of life, i don't want to get older, but yet I do. The 100% line and 50% scope is not my idea, it's what the other half of our union negotiated at the other half of our company. Don't blame me, I'm the non-union guy. As far as going to whatever line station you want, you have had the chance to transfer over the decades, but you chose to ride it out in TUL, now you can suffer threw a base closing or layoff like other stations in the past like MCI STL,DFW SFO,MIA, BNA, RDU, DTW, MSP, DEN, CLE, AFW, TAESL,etc etc and go to the stations that has an opening or has the lowest seniority, and if you look at DFW it's pretty senior there, and DWH looks like they're getting about 120 extra guys, come to Chicago we always take care of the guys that get laid off, and with the big raise I think we are going to get, Chicago will be nice.
 
I know you're not expecting a special deal just because you work at Tulsa.
 
I don't know where this idea comes out that USair hates mechs? They had a better contract then us after going through two bankruptcy's. I've heard of several mechs getting fired recently, but yet they get their jobs back, oh yeah they're just looking to fire people around here. Just do your job and you'll be fine.

I'm not going to get into the "I do more than you" crap.  But after reading your posts I now feel like I really owe AANOTOK an apology.  Now I know how he feels when we AMTs blame Fleet.  "We could get more if they paid Fleet less."  I guess now it's "The line can get more if overhaul gets less."  
   The truth is I got enough time that I will be here in Tulsa unless they outsource O/H 100% so I am in good shape.  But it ain't about me.  It's about all of us and when are we gonna get the point across that we are all screwed unless we work together.  I have good friends who will be hurt if you get your way.  These guys are stand up guys and fight for ALL of us and vote for the greater good when contract time comes.  Guys like BigMac.  Incidentally, Parker screwed AMTs ears off at America West and US Air.  How long did they go without a contract at US Air before they settled for the crap they got now?  Line and Overhaul are different.  But unless you have been here and done O/H work then you have no idea what it is like.  But I actually feel sorry for you.  When the TA comes and you find that Parker has no intention of paying anyone what he said he would you'll blame someone I'm sure, but it won't be Parker.  Right now I think I need to buy AANOTOK a beer.  BigMac too.  Those are the guys I want to go to battle with.  I will not accept a TA that screws ANYONE.  That includes line maintenance.  I know now that you will do what you have accused Tulsa of doing which makes you no better than the TWU Koolaid drinkers who keep them in business.  I only wish you realized you are playing right into the company's game plan of divide and conquer.  I hope your way of thinking is of the minority.  If not we are all done.  Right now I am feeling many things.  Frustration and disgust, but mostly fatigue from trying to convince everyone that we must work together and fight together.  But some will not be convinced.  I am nearing the end of my career and I wonder what it will be like for the next generation.  What kind of example are we giving them and are we no better than the A scalers who sold us out?  We all should be ashamed of ourselves.  Tulsa breakroom rhetoric my A$$.  You also make me want to root against the Cubs.  Damn

 

[Kev3188]

The sooner we all recognize divide & conquer for what it is (and does), the better.

 

[AANOTOK]

I'm not going to get into the "I do more than you" crap.  But after reading your posts I now feel like I really owe AANOTOK an apology.  Now I know how he feels when we AMTs blame Fleet.  "We could get more if they paid Fleet less."  I guess now it's "The line can get more if overhaul gets less."  
   The truth is I got enough time that I will be here in Tulsa unless they outsource O/H 100% so I am in good shape.  But it ain't about me.  It's about all of us and when are we gonna get the point across that we are all screwed unless we work together.  I have good friends who will be hurt if you get your way.  These guys are stand up guys and fight for ALL of us and vote for the greater good when contract time comes.  Guys like BigMac.  Incidentally, Parker screwed AMTs ears off at America West and US Air.  How long did they go without a contract at US Air before they settled for the crap they got now?  Line and Overhaul are different.  But unless you have been here and done O/H work then you have no idea what it is like.  But I actually feel sorry for you.  When the TA comes and you find that Parker has no intention of paying anyone what he said he would you'll blame someone I'm sure, but it won't be Parker.  Right now I think I need to buy AANOTOK a beer.  BigMac too.  Those are the guys I want to go to battle with.  I will not accept a TA that screws ANYONE.  That includes line maintenance.  I know now that you will do what you have accused Tulsa of doing which makes you no better than the TWU Koolaid drinkers who keep them in business.  I only wish you realized you are playing right into the company's game plan of divide and conquer.  I hope your way of thinking is of the minority.  If not we are all done.  Right now I am feeling many things.  Frustration and disgust, but mostly fatigue from trying to convince everyone that we must work together and fight together.  But some will not be convinced.  I am nearing the end of my career and I wonder what it will be like for the next generation.  What kind of example are we giving them and are we no better than the A scalers who sold us out?  We all should be ashamed of ourselves.  Tulsa breakroom rhetoric my A$$.  You also make me want to root against the Cubs.  Damn

OldGuy@AA,
I'm kind of off limits posting here, but just wanted to say that you never have to apologize to me for anything. We are good and understand
each others situation. WE ARE COOL BUDDY!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

OldGuy@AA,
I'm kind of off limits posting here, but just wanted to say that you never have to apologize to me for anything. We are good and understand
each others situation. WE ARE COOL BUDDY!

Thanks.

 

[dfw gen]

I'm not going to get into the "I do more than you" crap.  But after reading your posts I now feel like I really owe AANOTOK an apology.  Now I know how he feels when we AMTs blame Fleet.  "We could get more if they paid Fleet less."  I guess now it's "The line can get more if overhaul gets less."  
   The truth is I got enough time that I will be here in Tulsa unless they outsource O/H 100% so I am in good shape.  But it ain't about me.  It's about all of us and when are we gonna get the point across that we are all screwed unless we work together.  I have good friends who will be hurt if you get your way.  These guys are stand up guys and fight for ALL of us and vote for the greater good when contract time comes.  Guys like BigMac.  Incidentally, Parker screwed AMTs ears off at America West and US Air.  How long did they go without a contract at US Air before they settled for the crap they got now?  Line and Overhaul are different.  But unless you have been here and done O/H work then you have no idea what it is like.  But I actually feel sorry for you.  When the TA comes and you find that Parker has no intention of paying anyone what he said he would you'll blame someone I'm sure, but it won't be Parker.  Right now I think I need to buy AANOTOK a beer.  BigMac too.  Those are the guys I want to go to battle with.  I will not accept a TA that screws ANYONE.  That includes line maintenance.  I know now that you will do what you have accused Tulsa of doing which makes you no better than the TWU Koolaid drinkers who keep them in business.  I only wish you realized you are playing right into the company's game plan of divide and conquer.  I hope your way of thinking is of the minority.  If not we are all done.  Right now I am feeling many things.  Frustration and disgust, but mostly fatigue from trying to convince everyone that we must work together and fight together.  But some will not be convinced.  I am nearing the end of my career and I wonder what it will be like for the next generation.  What kind of example are we giving them and are we no better than the A scalers who sold us out?  We all should be ashamed of ourselves.  Tulsa breakroom rhetoric my A$$.  You also make me want to root against the Cubs.  Damn

no apologies required here either i was at afw for 17 years got out just in time! enjoyed overhaul but saw the writing on the wall.

 

[bigjets]

I'll say this for the last time. I wish for no outsourcing or for OH to get less money so I get more. What I said was, I don't want to sacrifice pay to save OH AGAIN. we have done that twice, first MCI closed then second AFW closed, not to mention the line that stations closed.

2010 you guys made a stand not to take a bonus when line was getting a pay raise, you didn't want the guys under 50 to lose retiree medical. What happens, no pay raise, no bonus, no retiree medical for anybody. You all made valid points why you voted against TA, but the actuality is we lost $50k in pay and we lost out on contractual benefits, sick, holidays, etc.....

The company is going to do what it needs to do, despite what the union says, despite what we write on this forum.

To sum up, I just don't want to sacrifice pay AGAIN, when AA will close or outsource regardless of what we say. Don't take facts as an attack against OH or yourself.

 

[MetalMover]

I'm not going to get into the "I do more than you" crap.  But after reading your posts I now feel like I really owe AANOTOK an apology.  Now I know how he feels when we AMTs blame Fleet.  "We could get more if they paid Fleet less."  I guess now it's "The line can get more if overhaul gets less."  
   The truth is I got enough time that I will be here in Tulsa unless they outsource O/H 100% so I am in good shape.  But it ain't about me.  It's about all of us and when are we gonna get the point across that we are all screwed unless we work together.  I have good friends who will be hurt if you get your way.  These guys are stand up guys and fight for ALL of us and vote for the greater good when contract time comes.  Guys like BigMac.  Incidentally, Parker screwed AMTs ears off at America West and US Air.  How long did they go without a contract at US Air before they settled for the crap they got now?  Line and Overhaul are different.  But unless you have been here and done O/H work then you have no idea what it is like.  But I actually feel sorry for you.  When the TA comes and you find that Parker has no intention of paying anyone what he said he would you'll blame someone I'm sure, but it won't be Parker.  Right now I think I need to buy AANOTOK a beer.  BigMac too.  Those are the guys I want to go to battle with.  I will not accept a TA that screws ANYONE.  That includes line maintenance.  I know now that you will do what you have accused Tulsa of doing which makes you no better than the TWU Koolaid drinkers who keep them in business.  I only wish you realized you are playing right into the company's game plan of divide and conquer.  I hope your way of thinking is of the minority.  If not we are all done.  Right now I am feeling many things.  Frustration and disgust, but mostly fatigue from trying to convince everyone that we must work together and fight together.  But some will not be convinced.  I am nearing the end of my career and I wonder what it will be like for the next generation.  What kind of example are we giving them and are we no better than the A scalers who sold us out?  We all should be ashamed of ourselves.  Tulsa breakroom rhetoric my A$$.  You also make me want to root against the Cubs.  Damn

OldGuy, I think we can blame the TWU ATD for the divide and conquer that exists between line and OH.....I guess the same can be said for the divide and conquer between any work group. I have said many times in the past that each employee is important to any company in a specific way. Some jobs are without a doubt more responsible and, yes, more important than others. The TWU, as with any other industrial union believes in the "WE ALL PAY THE SAME FOR A QUART OF MILK" and "HALF A LOAF IS BETTER THAN NO LOAF" socialist propaganda BS. That has been a major factor. Satisfy the mass majorities and screw the minorities so everyone is equal......and therefore no one is "better" than the next person.
But let's be open and honest here, OH had been used to being the super majority and all it ever took was the line to maybe get GEO pay or a bigger line premium and you and every other OH mech would have never heard anything from the line guys.
 But TUL wanted no part of that. Now I am sure not every OH mechanic was against it, but it sure as hell was the TUL leadership who had a problem with it...Hell, even MIA had a problem with it because they weren't getting as much as the NE and CA guys.
But that is the past, we now have to look at the present and the future as well. The sad reality of it all is that OH is being diminished by attrition. All these new aircraft coming on line will never see heavy maintenance. Heavy maintenance intervals have been greatly prolonged and engine reliability greatly increased. 
If outsourcing 100% line in favor of 100% in house OH was the better, smarter way of operating. then every airline that ever went BK and every other carrier would have been doing it already. Instead, the carriers all chose to outsource OH at a greater percentage than the line.
I have never advocated outsourcing ANY job. Airline workers have been getting shafted since the early 80's. It is not going to change or reverse course. It is the new airline industry with respect to outsourcing and OH seems to be a main issue. I sympathize with all those affected who will have to relocate. 
But the reality of this debate is that voting to save jobs HAS NOT WORKED IN THE PAST  AND WILL NOT WORK NOW....It was only deferred to a later time.
 
What I am saying  that we will not be duped again. And this time around it won't just be the LAA people voting on a TWUL "VOTE YES OR ELSE!" pos contract. It will the LUS people voting. And let's be honest, they already had PIT hit the hardest and major job loss as well,  and frankly I don't think they could care any less about TUL. And another major factor is that we are not dealing with the old AA management who had their "special" relationship with the TWU. 
I apologize if this offends the OH guys, but the airline industry has been transformed and voting to save jobs does not work.  

 

[iluvaa]

If you don't think the high timers in Tulsa will sell there mother down the road for a $10 raise your sadly mistaken. A contract will pass with flying colors no matter what's in it as long as there's a $10 raise.