2015 AMT Discussion
- Thread starter Eagle
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Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
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700UW,
I totally get it. The IAM got to abrogation because they couldn't negotiate an agreement under the 1113 mandated discussion process. You say it was unacceptable and did what? Recommended a no vote because abrogation was better? Big leadership win either way for the IAM right?
The TWU was in the same 1113 process in 2012 and they managed to negotiate a deal that ended up with a scope clause that kept more people working than is under the IAM scope clause. Also better pay.
The facts are the facts. The IAM failed to get a deal and ended up in aborgation and you claim the process and judge were against the IAM leadership. Well the TWU must have had a better team of experts and negotiators than the IAM because they got a deal where the IAM was unable to under the same laws. It is clear that is a failure of leadership at the IAM to not get the deal done before getting the CBA abrogated plain and simple.
In the end I am not pleased with the fact we ended up with 2003 concessions or the BK CBA however, I am happy, no. Ecstatic I didn't have the IAM representing me when those scams were in play by AA management at the time.
Now getting back to today. I am still wondering how low do I set my expectations knowing that the IAM that led the membership at US during two BKs and how they did is now running the Association. If the IAM is led by people who think that the loss of jobs is "trimming the fat", that AMTs doing push backs brought down the industry, and that we are elitists because we take pride in what we do and understand the gravity of that responsibility then we are screwed.
I totally get it. The IAM got to abrogation because they couldn't negotiate an agreement under the 1113 mandated discussion process. You say it was unacceptable and did what? Recommended a no vote because abrogation was better? Big leadership win either way for the IAM right?
The TWU was in the same 1113 process in 2012 and they managed to negotiate a deal that ended up with a scope clause that kept more people working than is under the IAM scope clause. Also better pay.
The facts are the facts. The IAM failed to get a deal and ended up in aborgation and you claim the process and judge were against the IAM leadership. Well the TWU must have had a better team of experts and negotiators than the IAM because they got a deal where the IAM was unable to under the same laws. It is clear that is a failure of leadership at the IAM to not get the deal done before getting the CBA abrogated plain and simple.
In the end I am not pleased with the fact we ended up with 2003 concessions or the BK CBA however, I am happy, no. Ecstatic I didn't have the IAM representing me when those scams were in play by AA management at the time.
Now getting back to today. I am still wondering how low do I set my expectations knowing that the IAM that led the membership at US during two BKs and how they did is now running the Association. If the IAM is led by people who think that the loss of jobs is "trimming the fat", that AMTs doing push backs brought down the industry, and that we are elitists because we take pride in what we do and understand the gravity of that responsibility then we are screwed.
Roadking5560
Advanced
- Oct 30, 2013
- 169
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"But, But, But... You Don't Get!!!!!!!" Uh,Uh,Uh ..."Facts Are Getting In Your Way"...er... Uh.
- Banned
- #1,489
The fact is US filed chapter 11 twice in two years and we had our CBA abrogated as they wanted to layoff 46% of the workforce in maintenance and terminate our pension.
We gave US a complete and comprehensive proposal which they rejected.
Funny I didnt see any of you at CCY or in the Bankruptcy Court in Alexandria, VA.
We gave US a complete and comprehensive proposal which they rejected.
Funny I didnt see any of you at CCY or in the Bankruptcy Court in Alexandria, VA.
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
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Ok, so please post the highest number of mechanics US ever employed. Compared to today's US/IAM mechanic headcount, I would be willing to say that 46% headcount is pretty damn close to the reduction that was ultimately achieved.700UW said:
At AA, we once had numbers in the mid 12000's and compared to today's headcount, maintenance heads are down well over 5000. And for years we advised by the TWU to vote yes to save jobs, contract, after contract after contract............
And before you blame the numerous bankruptcies and 9/11 and the economy, the bottom line is that once the company decides to take the path of reduction, that goal will be achieved one way or another.
Hence, with current negotiations underway, most of us that have endured the TWU job saving sermons, will not fall for this again.
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
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Yep! And also said that productivity is not like Delta's. So expect work rule changes to mirror theirs.dfw gen said:
Also he mentioned the pilots contract and said there will be no leap-frogging during contracts. The DL +3 or UAL +3 applies at time of contract renewal.
Personally I could live with Delta work rules. I, like others know people who work there, and it is not the end of the world if we worked like them. But more than compensation alone, we need their holidays, holiday pay, sick time, vacation time......everything.
As far as leap frogging, we never had a industry average adjustment clause prior to our current contract.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
700UW said:
Isn't this what NWA wanted to do as well? Yet you bad mouth them? You can't have it both ways.
The IAM has Failed at CAL, NWA, TWA, UAL, USAir and so on. The only Time in History that I can remember that the IAM stood for/with it's workers in the airline biz was at Eastern. I was a part of that.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
MetalMover said:
Lets hope that you are correct with this statement, But if the company puts enough money upfront on the table most will just bite and sign never read all the catches that come with it.
D
DallasConehead
Guest
Unfortunately, we will, the people that are heading out the door will vote yes for the reductions in pay and benefits so they can keep working. The people that number enough to out vote this minority will not vote due to apathy. Thus the jobs program for less money agreement will pass by the slimmest of margins. We have seen it time and time again and I expect nothing different from this round of concession giving.MetalMover said:
And then, as seen before, the people that voted yes will get pushed out the door anyway.
We are so freaking stupid
- Banned
- #1,497
Bad mouthed how they weren't prepared for a strike.AMFAinMIAMI said:
No strike fund, they had to beg other unions for donations.
They never let the members vote in the final offer.
And you can't tell me that someone didn't know NW was training a thousand or more scabs.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
700UW said:
700UW
They did like every company with the potential for a work stoppage, and they also struck a DEAL with the IAM since they SCABBED. Is that the group your talking about as well.
Every Union looks for help from other unions, that way more pressure gets applied to the company since it effects more people and bottom line. You should know that, or maybe we are expecting to much from you to realise that?
The IAM has a strike fund for the USAirways guy's then why did they just roll over and take it in the Butt. Couldn't they come up with a plan or was it hard for them to believe that the members would support that. The IAM has been a FAILURE for so many yrs now. We will see just how strong the backbone of your so called all powerful union is as they go forward with the spineless TWU.
Every union's top officials have the power to decide what comes to a vote and what does not.
They can even approve the contract with out a vote. They are the members reps. voted in or NOT.
The leaders at AMFA are elected not put into place like the IAM/TWU/IBT type of unions.
In fact they even had an election and the leaders at AMFA were replaced. This is what happen when the members have a actual vote. This has happened twice in the last two elections that the members replace the guys who they thought were not looking out for the unions best interest.
This Can't happen with the IAM/TWU/IBT. It's like the MOB corrupt, just a big bunch of scammers.
I agree, I don't base my pay on how much TV or dominos time I can get at work. Change the work rules to whatever makes the most sense, but PAY ME!!!! We all know that there are moronic rules that if we owned a company we wouldn't stand for.MetalMover said:
We are only at work for 8.5 hrs (should be 8hrs)
If you want me to change a tire on a 777, then go work a auto pilot problem on S80, thank you for the great pay, I can handle it.
700UW said:
700 is right in this argument, as we all know AMFA got us all the big raise in 2001, but thought they had more power then they actually did, NWA offered a go on strike contract, but what pushed NWA to that point, the inability/want for AMFA to take any concessions until the contract became amendable. (we stood up to the company mentality, 2004 not the time for that, 2016 is the time,with billions of profit at stake)
Not seeing the hundreds of scabs being trained or thinking that the scabs couldn't possibly do the job of a NWA AMT was pure hubris, granted the scabs couldn't do it as efficiently as an experienced NWA AMT, but do it they did and are currently doing as a Delta AMT making $46 an hour.
AMFA thinking that a republican administration isn't going to side against labor is just a dream, I bet AMFA guys had to talk themselves into believing that the NMB would release them before scabs were trained, because thats the right thing to do, because thats what they would do.
I do thank NWA AMTs and AMFA for getting us the big raise, but I also thank them for the education, when times were good even NWA was willing to pay, but when the times are tough, you need to work with the company.
Side note, executives from around the USA watched the executives of AA get pushed out of their jobs, because of their greed and apathy towards labor, you can only take advantage of labor so long before something snaps. How much bonuses and prestige would Horton, Reading, etc etc... be getting now with a company making more then $1Billion a quarter. They'll be remembered like Carty, the guy that secured the executives retirements on the day the unions voted to take pay cuts to save airline from BK, or remembered like Arpey, the guy that gave bonuses to executives while the airline was losing millions every quarter.
We can say Bob Crandall was tough, but he is the God Father of AA. Only Bob can go into a break room and be greeted with warmth. Arpey, Carty and Horton would get a different reaction.
