2014 Pilot Discussion

[Metroyet]

Dear Bob:
 
Here is the REAL REALITY of what we have at the New American.
 

 
If you recall the USAPA meeting where Bates and Roghair showed up to meet the USAPA pilots they were SCARED and willing to sell everyone and anybody down the river to save THEIR collective souls!  USAPA supported APA to support the Company.  And where did THAT get us?  The APA makes the "recall four" (hardline ALPA MEC reps) look like Saints!

Don't forget, Bob, APA wasn't listening to US EITHER!  As I said previously, they were looking out FOR THEMSELVES and let the FUTURE play out later.  Talk about CRISIS MANAGEMENT.  Don't forget the LUS pilots wanted out for LOA93 and to US IT WAS A GOOD DEAL.  REMEMBER?  LOOK WHO VOTED FOR IT!




The APA thought HE WAS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!  HE SAVED THEM, BOB!  So the APA negotiated away the profit sharing.  Let me remind you again the history of Hummel and his backroom dealings with management for the money increase WE WERE GETTING over the NAC.  Remember??

All that money goes into the coffers for the FUTURE so if and when the pilots choose a job action in four-five years they will have their SHOCK TROOPS and you know exactly of WHOM I AM SPEAKING OF:  1,700 WEST PILOTS!




 
You mean the Company has ALWAYS done that yet the magnificent APA didn't KNOW?  They knew, they just keep on doing the same ole same ole.

Uh, are you FORGETTING SOMETHING BOB???  The company doesn't CARE about the "overpaid" most senior pilots, the West don't care about the most senior pilots IF IT ISN'T THEM and the new hires don't care about them because it's a long way off for them to make $450,000 a year.  Evidently NEITHER DOES THE APA (except their OWN in arbitration) and the West SHOCK GROUP (in arbitration)!!  Remember C-A-M-I?  It's CASTIGATE-ARBITRATE-MITIGATE-INSTIGATE for the union ALL OVER AGAIN!  The STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE of the New APA!!!



NEWS FLASH, BOB.  We'll NEVER get up to Delta rates because our contract will ALWAYS be behind Delta negotiations AND most significantly they HAVE a unified pilot group unlike ours where seniority lawsuits, TWA seniority inequities and new hires who NEED JOBS AND PAY INCREASES who really can't feel the SENIOR guys "pain" with what their already making sets APA pilots up as the Company gift that keeps on giving.


 

Bob, they're bypassing the BOD with the CREW NEWS!  You've been here longer than I have.  Look at the crew news where Jonnie Mac asked Parker for ways to report East pilots for three-engine and slow taxi.  HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT???
 
Bob, you would have MY support if I thought for one SECOND we could TRUST THE OTHER PILOTS TO PULL in the same direction but guess what:  PILOT UNITY IS LOST HERE AND THE COMPANY HAS THE WIND AT ITS BACK.

Nothing like a huge shot of hypocrisy to start the day! The EAST pilot group is the fundamental cause of a permanently FRACTURED pilot group. The 3 to 1 support for a west merger committee with only USAPA,(whatever that is) against. Read the narratives of the supporting 3 briefs. The East pilots nefarious and reprehensible acts against the west are independently documented in ALL 3.

Guess you're fake Union wasn't as slick as you thought it was. USAPA was a huge mistake that every pilot at the new American will be paying for for years. I think an independent West committees a slam dunk...and I think the East is going to get murdered in the eventual East/West SLI. I'm also counting on wild and furious antics/tantrums being thrown by the North Carolina LLC...those antics will just further harm the East. But then again, when did self destruction ever concern an East Guy?

 

[Zone5]

Congrats on all those wins.
 
Where is the Jackass award displayed?
 
 
 
US Airways Pilots Union Earns a Long Overdue Cranky Jackass Award For Using Safety as a Negotiation Tactic
By CF on Jul 28, 2011  |  127 Comments
 



I’ve written many times about the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), and it’s never been in a good light. This week, the group which represents the pilots at US Airways has once again topped itself by taking out a full page ad in USA Today talking about how US Airways is unsafe. Though there are other groups in the running, I think USAPA has demonstrated that it is the most ineffective, poorly run union group out there.
 

For the misguided representation it provides its pilots, USAPA gets the Cranky Jackass award. This has been a long time coming.


You may already know the story. USAPA was created when the US Airways “East” (pre-merger US Airways) pilots didn’t like the seniority agreement that was decided upon in binding arbitration (yes, “binding” is apparently a loose term) with the US Airways “West” (pre-merger America West) pilots. So they marched off and voted in a new union, casting off the arbitration result. The West pilots didn’t like that (it’s been working its way through the courts), but they didn’t have the numbers to prevent the move. You can read more of the history here. In short, USAPA has done absolutely nothing good for its members, but it wrongly likes to blame US Airways management for its failings.
And that brings us to USAPA’s current strategy . . . try to burn down the company and apparently put all of its members out of a job.
The latest shameful tactic is the taking out of a full page ad in USA Today claiming that US Airways is unsafe. Let’s see. You work for an airline that pays your salary with revenue that comes in the door, and now you’re going to turn around and try to shut off that revenue by falsely claiming your airline is unsafe? Simply pathetic. It’s such a blatant negotiating tactic, but how will the general public react? That’s unclear, though this hasn’t received much press at all considering all the more important “real” news in the aviation world in the last week.
The ad itself used a single pilot incident that happened on June 16 to show the supposed danger of flying the airline. Apparently there was a flight scheduled to cross the Atlantic from Philly that evening and there were a couple of mechanical issues. There are some mechanical issues that aren’t considered crucial to be fixed, and that appears to be the case here, but the captain refused to fly the airplane and then, according to the union, she was escorted out of the airport by corporate security. The next crew refused to fly the airplane as well. Over the next couple hours, some maintenance work was done and the airplane went on its way with a third crew.
This is why the union says US Airways is an unsafe airline. It says the airline is intimidating its pilots and pushing them to fly even if it’s not safe. Then if they refuse, it has security remove them. Sounds bad, right? Too bad it’s a crock.
Now, regarding the mechanical incident itself, I don’t know whether the captain did the right thing by refusing to fly the airplane. I do know that the FAA found US Airways did nothing wrong. Here’s the statement:

The FAA manager assigned to the US Airways certificate reviewed the June 16, 2011 incident. The APU shutdown the aircraft experienced is a failure that pilots are well aware can happen and that they are trained to recognize. The battery apparently was depleted by attempts to restart the APU. Flying an aircraft with an inoperative APU is not an unusual event and normally poses no safety issues when proper limitations are applied. The Captain simply chose to exercise her pilot-in-command authority of not accepting an aircraft. Our information indicates that US Airways followed their approved MEL procedures, and all maintenance procedures were followed in accordance with the operator’s approved maintenance program. We found no violations of Federal Aviation Regulations.

That being said, if a captain doesn’t feel comfortable flying an airplane, then it’s his or her right to deny it. The problem arises when that privilege is abused just to delay or cancel flights without good reason. I’m not saying that happened here. I don’t know, and frankly, it’s not central to my point. I have no problem in theory with her walking away from the flight.
But why would security come escort the captain from the airport? USAPA wants you to believe it’s because she refused to fly the airplane. Not quite. According to US Airways, “the Captain was escorted out of the airport by corporate security (after being released from duty) not for her refusal to fly but for her comments made to customers regarding the safety of the aircraft.” Unfortunately, I don’t know details about what she said to the passengers, but it was apparently highly inappropriate. See more in this a.net discussion. I would have had her carted off the airplane as well.
In reality, there is nothing pointing to US Airways being unsafe but rather more evidence of the airline having good safety practices. It recently passed the IATA Operational Safety Audit, for example. But that won’t stop the union from trying to sully the airline’s reputation. (Get it? Sully? I crack myself up.)
In the end, USAPA simply wants to damage US Airways as if this will somehow convince the airline to throw a ton of money at the union and solve all its problems. Unfortunately, the union needs to solve its own problems regarding seniority before it can even be ready to talk to management, and it doesn’t seem any closer to doing so. I feel really bad for those pilots who never even wanted this union to represent them in the first place. This whole thing is simply pathetic and more than worthy of the Cranky Jackass Award.
[Thanks to Johosofat for the excellent Cranky Jackass Award]
 
http://crankyflier.com/2011/07/28/us-airways-pilots-union-earns-a-long-overdue-cranky-jackass-award-for-using-safety-as-a-negotiation-tactic/

Ancient history and nobody's "finest" hour!

seajay

 

[Phoenix]

Dear Bob:
 
Here is the REAL REALITY of what we have at the New American.
 

 
If you recall the USAPA meeting where Bates and Roghair showed up to meet the USAPA pilots they were SCARED and willing to sell everyone and anybody down the river to save THEIR collective souls!  USAPA supported APA to support the Company.  And where did THAT get us?  The APA makes the "recall four" (hardline ALPA MEC reps) look like Saints!

Don't forget, Bob, APA wasn't listening to US EITHER!  As I said previously, they were looking out FOR THEMSELVES and let the FUTURE play out later.  Talk about CRISIS MANAGEMENT.  Don't forget the LUS pilots wanted out for LOA93 and to US IT WAS A GOOD DEAL.  REMEMBER?  LOOK WHO VOTED FOR IT!




The APA thought HE WAS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!  HE SAVED THEM, BOB!  So the APA negotiated away the profit sharing.  Let me remind you again the history of Hummel and his backroom dealings with management for the money increase WE WERE GETTING over the NAC.  Remember??

All that money goes into the coffers for the FUTURE so if and when the pilots choose a job action in four-five years they will have their SHOCK TROOPS and you know exactly of WHOM I AM SPEAKING OF:  1,700 WEST PILOTS!




 
You mean the Company has ALWAYS done that yet the magnificent APA didn't KNOW?  They knew, they just keep on doing the same ole same ole.

Uh, are you FORGETTING SOMETHING BOB???  The company doesn't CARE about the "overpaid" most senior pilots, the West don't care about the most senior pilots IF IT ISN'T THEM and the new hires don't care about them because it's a long way off for them to make $450,000 a year.  Evidently NEITHER DOES THE APA (except their OWN in arbitration) and the West SHOCK GROUP (in arbitration)!!  Remember C-A-M-I?  It's CASTIGATE-ARBITRATE-MITIGATE-INSTIGATE for the union ALL OVER AGAIN!  The STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE of the New APA!!!



NEWS FLASH, BOB.  We'll NEVER get up to Delta rates because our contract will ALWAYS be behind Delta negotiations AND most significantly they HAVE a unified pilot group unlike ours where seniority lawsuits, TWA seniority inequities and new hires who NEED JOBS AND PAY INCREASES who really can't feel the SENIOR guys "pain" with what their already making sets APA pilots up as the Company gift that keeps on giving.


 

Bob, they're bypassing the BOD with the CREW NEWS!  You've been here longer than I have.  Look at the crew news where Jonnie Mac asked Parker for ways to report East pilots for three-engine and slow taxi.  HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT???
 
Bob, you would have MY support if I thought for one SECOND we could TRUST THE OTHER PILOTS TO PULL in the same direction but guess what:  PILOT UNITY IS LOST HERE AND THE COMPANY HAS THE WIND AT ITS BACK.

Bob was unemotional and rational. He summarized our managements attitude and tactics well.

No doubt Bob knows Parker and Glass are doing their best to drive a wedge between the BOD and the members. If the members abandon the BOD and turn to Parker and Glass for mercy to just make all the scary stuff go away (some may even go so far as to attempt a recall against reps that resist management) we will suffer the same disaster that LOA 93 was and that the MOU is.. by the exact same process, again... During unF-ing believable record profits. But at least we will keep the flea bag hotels, and maybe get to double up.

Management is the one who is unreasonable and constantly issuing threats and scary ultimatums. "Yes, just please make it stop." is not a winning strategy. Throwing others to the bear as I run is not a strategy.

Negotiations are by nature uncomfortable, and every one has a threshold of tolerance where they get too uncomfortable. Everyone should put their helmet on and hunker down in the foxhole. The noise will not go away. Embrace the stench. Savor the taste of mud. Laugh at the F-ing cold. Snear at the starvation. Stay in your foxhole and don't make a run for it alone and afraid.

The minute Glass divides a vocal minority from the BOD he will rout all of us in disarray.. for another ten years.

Do we support Bob? The BOD? Or do we want to abandon the BOD and act like a lot of selfish individuals?

 

[Zone5]

December 9, 2014

America West Merger Committee Update

   

As we previously communicated to you, the Preliminary Arbitration begins next week in Washington DC. Although attendance is open to all pilots, the arbitration hearing is being held in a space-limited law office conference room. Additionally, the law office is located within a secured office building, and the security guards will only permit registered visitors into the building. This necessarily means that we cannot guarantee that all who submit an RSVP will be permitted to attend due to space constraints, and the law firm has asked us to require RSVP of those wishing to attend. Therefore, each pilot planning to attend MUST RSVP as follows:

• Email to [email protected]
• Your name
• Date(s) you are planning to attend

 
Once we receive your RSVP, we will forward it to the law firm so that they can place your name on the visitor list.
NO PILOT WILL BE PERMITTED TO ENTER THE LAW OFFICE BUILDING UNLESS THEY HAVE A CONFIRMED RSVP AND ARE PLACED ON THE VISITOR LIST.
We will send further attendance details to those with confirmed RSVPs.
A more convenient alternative to attending the hearings in person will be to review each day's hearing transcripts. The hearing transcripts from each day will be posted on our website the day after each hearing day. As a reminder our website address is:

www.west-merger-committee.com
​

 
As a reminder, the Preliminary Arbitration will consist of up to five hearing days, the first three of which are scheduled for December 15-17, 2014, approximately 9am–5pm each day.
Sincerely,
The America West Merger Committee

It won't matter if anybody shows up anyway, it will be what it will be.


seajay

 

[Zone5]

Nothing like a huge shot of hypocrisy to start the day! The EAST pilot group is the fundamental cause of a permanently FRACTURED pilot group. The 3 to 1 support for a west merger committee with only USAPA,(whatever that is) against. Read the narratives of the supporting 3 briefs. The East pilots nefarious and reprehensible acts against the west are independently documented in ALL 3.
Guess you're fake Union wasn't as slick as you thought it was. USAPA was a huge mistake that every pilot at the new American will be paying for for years. I think an independent West committees a slam dunk...and I think the East is going to get murdered in the eventual East/West SLI. I'm also counting on wild and furious antics/tantrums being thrown by the North Carolina LLC...those antics will just further harm the East. But then again, when did self destruction ever concern an East Guy?

How about another "countdown" clock! Why not!


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

Bob was unemotional and rational. He summarized our managements attitude and tactics well.

No doubt Bob knows Parker and Glass are doing their best to drive a wedge between the BOD and the members. If the members abandon the BOD and turn to Parker and Glass for mercy to just make all the scary stuff go away (some may even go so far as to attempt a recall against reps that resist management) we will suffer the same disaster that LOA 93 was and that the MOU is.. by the exact same process, again... During unF-ing believable record profits. But at least we will keep the flea bag hotels, and maybe get to double up.

Management is the one who is unreasonable and constantly issuing threats and scary ultimatums. "Yes, just please make it stop." is not a winning strategy. Throwing others to the bear as I run is not a strategy.

Negotiations are by nature uncomfortable, and every one has a threshold of tolerance where they get too uncomfortable. Everyone should put their helmet on and hunker down in the foxhole. The noise will not go away. Embrace the stench. Savor the taste of mud. Laugh at the F-ing cold. Snear at the starvation. Stay in your foxhole and don't make a run for it alone and afraid.

The minute Glass divides a vocal minority from the BOD he will rout all of us in disarray.. for another ten years.

Do we support Bob? The BOD? Or do we want to abandon the BOD and act like a lot of selfish individuals?

But WHY should WE blame management for OUR mistakes??  I mean, REALLY?  We keep pointing the finger at them, I know the company is making record profits but just like Bob was saying, it wasn't the MINORITY that gave everything to them in the MOU it was the PILOTS in general and the APA supported it.  Isn't it the BOD to do the due diligence?  Where were they when the Company was trying to merge with AAL?  Trying to save their OWN a$$e$.  They were the ones who gave up the profit sharing.
 
They didn't even have the idea to BACKSTOP the possibility of things going the right way and putting that in the contract.  
 
Let's focus FIRST on what's wrong with the union FIRST, fix that and then maybe, just maybe, well have the ability sometime in the future to collectively get a better contract.  By the West responses on here I already think I have that answer.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Nothing like a huge shot of hypocrisy to start the day! The EAST pilot group is the fundamental cause of a permanently FRACTURED pilot group. The 3 to 1 support for a west merger committee with only USAPA,(whatever that is) against. Read the narratives of the supporting 3 briefs. The East pilots nefarious and reprehensible acts against the west are independently documented in ALL 3.

Guess you're fake Union wasn't as slick as you thought it was. USAPA was a huge mistake that every pilot at the new American will be paying for for years. I think an independent West committees a slam dunk...and I think the East is going to get murdered in the eventual East/West SLI. I'm also counting on wild and furious antics/tantrums being thrown by the North Carolina LLC...those antics will just further harm the East. But then again, when did self destruction ever concern an East Guy?

You've been right this whole time.

 

[EastUS1]

EastUS1: Should "you'se" wish to claim some delusional notions of a moral high ground here; begin by explaining in depth just what makes YOU personally "worthy" of instantly achieved faux "seniority" over anyone else in your same working class and craft?
 

Victim

 
No surprise "you'se" couldn't even attempt any answer to that, and if being a "Victim" in your delusional fantasies amounts to retiring from the left seat of a larger airplane that's not found in PHX, and doing so in a "spartan" free cockpit, well, I guess I'll just have to suffer as such.  Despite your insanely selfish efforts, millions you've wasted on lawyers, not to mention all the joy attending being wrapped-around-the-axle and obviously angry for years now, well, it seems that your imaginary little "army" hasn't proved at all successful in making anyone out east into a victim, but have fun with your childish fantasies.

 

[EastCheats]

EastUS1: Should "you'se" wish to claim some delusional notions of a moral high ground here; begin by explaining in depth just what makes YOU personally "worthy" of instantly achieved faux "seniority" over anyone else in your same working class and craft?
 

 
No surprise "you'se" couldn't even attempt any answer to that, and if being a "Victim" in your delusional fantasies amounts to retiring from the left seat of a larger airplane that's not found in PHX, and doing so in a "spartan" free cockpit, well, I guess I'll just have to suffer as such.  Despite your insanely selfish efforts, millions you've wasted on lawyers, not to mention all the joy attending being wrapped-around-the-axle and obviously angry for years now, well, it seems that your imaginary little "army" hasn't proved at all successful in making anyone out east into a victim, but have fun with your childish fantasies.

Victim

 

[end_of_alpa]

Victim

SUCCUBUS.

 

[Phoenix]

But WHY should WE blame management for OUR mistakes??  I mean, REALLY?  We keep pointing the finger at them, I know the company is making record profits but just like Bob was saying, it wasn't the MINORITY that gave everything to them in the MOU it was the PILOTS in general and the APA supported it.  Isn't it the BOD to do the due diligence?  Where were they when the Company was trying to merge with AAL?  Trying to save their OWN a$$e$.  They were the ones who gave up the profit sharing.
 
They didn't even have the idea to BACKSTOP the possibility of things going the right way and putting that in the contract.  
 
Let's focus FIRST on what's wrong with the union FIRST, fix that and then maybe, just maybe, well have the ability sometime in the future to collectively get a better contract.  By the West responses on here I already think I have that answer.

 
 
What is wrong with the union is that we are a bunch of spoiled selfish, individual brats all trying to get their own way, exploiting each other's fears and selfish motives, and then attacking the BPR and the BOD during negotiations.   You know who I am talking about.  Unelected manipulators that couldn't sit still and let the BPR do their work and fight it out in closed session, but chose instead to fan the flames of fear and uncertainty and cause mutiny to overthrow the work of the BPR.  They bragged about it publicly.    

It isn't a problem that we are all selfish, individual brats... that is why we have a BPR, BOD, and negotiating committee.  We are supposed to set aside our individual selfishness long enough to allow the BPR, BOD, negotiating committee to do their job and negotiate our collective best interests.  It is easier for the company to divide and conquer 15,000 individual brats than it is to divide and conquer a small board of representatives that have a higher calling than just their own selfish interests (even as imperfect as they may be).  That is why the company always negotiates directly with the pilot group in crew news, town halls, and the media, attempting to neuter the BOD and cause mutiny in the membership for a direct vote.
 
Pilots don't like uncertainty. They don't want to feel they are out of control.  They want to fix things.  Too many of them are shitty managers and succumb to the temptation to micromanage everything the BPR and negotiating committee do.
 
I am afraid pilots will never perfect letting the BOD do their job unmolested.  Its not in the pilots DNA to let go of their own selfishness during the sausage making process.      

 

[Claxon]

Victim

The majority of East pilots (including recent new hires) can bid captain positions and wide body aircraft.  You being a west pilot, are in the same seat, narrow body aircraft and bidding position since USAPA was voted in, 2008. 
 
Your thoughts please sir?

 

[FL430]

New hires cringe at the thought of being assigned PHX. Keep filing those lawsuits western brothers!

 

[EastCheats]

The majority of East pilots (including recent new hires) can bid captain positions and wide body aircraft.  You being a west pilot, are in the same seat, narrow body aircraft and bidding position since USAPA was voted in, 2008. 
 
Your thoughts please sir?

Fleeting

 

[Claxon]

Fleeting

Airbus fleet or Boeing fleet?