2014 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Welcome back.
American APA pilots smiling smugly as they boldly proclaim former america west pilots should be represented. Stage right William Wilder strapping into his battle tank to run over Leonidas. The APA leaders and James know the law. There is no legal ground to break west pilots out of USAPA. This is just one way to feign " concern" by legacy APA.
west pilots being teed up by APA. FORE!

 
Thanks....
 
The APA is the bargaining agent for the West pilots, not USAPA LLC as of 8/8/2014. Try to convince an arbitrator otherwise. Refer to the APA's pre-hearing brief, pg 21 and the paragraph prior to the conclusion. Taking those arguments and the company's parallel arguments in consideration, USAPA LLC has an uphill battle.
 
Good luck.
 
 
F. APA's NMB Certification and the West Pilot Request to Designate West Committee
 
 
In compliance with its obligations under the MOU, APA filed a petition with the NMB
 
on January 15,2014, seeking a determination that American and US Airways constituted a single carrier for the purposes of determining the applicable bargaining unit of Flight Deck Crew Members (i.e., pilots) under the Railway Labor Act ("RLA").
 
On August 8,2014, the NMB found that, American and US Airways were operating as single transportation system under the RLA for the purposes of representing craft or class of Flight Deck Crewmembers. American Airlines/US Airways, 41 NMB 174 (2014), J. Ex. 15. On September 16,2013, the NMB certified APA as the collective bargaining representative for all pilots at the merged carrier. American Airlines/US Airways, 41 NMB 289 (2014), J. Ex. 16. While USAPA continues to exist as an organization, following its decertification by the NMB, it is no longer the collective bargaining agent for the US Airways pilots and no longer owes any duty of fair representation to the West Pilots or any other pilots who performed flying for pre-merger US Airways. Rather, the duty of fair representation to all Company pilots now lies solely with APA.
 

21​

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Here, as explained above, appointment of a separate merger committee to represent the interests of the West Pilots is consistent with APA's duty of fair representation. See supra at 25-30. Such designation is therefore also consistent with Allegheny-Mohawk Section 3's requirement that provisions be made "for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner." Accordingly, it is fully within APA's discretion under McCaskill-Bond to designate a West Committee.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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[Freighterguynow]

Panel must deny the Applicants’ request to be designated as a separate merger committee for former America West pilots in the Sections 3 and 13 proceeding between the pilots of American and US Airways. The Applicants are barred by the adverse judgment against them under McCaskill-Bond from litigating that claim for before the Panel. They do not escape the preclusive effect of that judgment in litigation against USAPA and its merger committee because APA succeeded to USAPA’s RLA rights as representative of US Airways pilots. Instead, they are barred from asserting such a claim against APA as USAPA’s successor.


It would be ironic if the West's own legal losses blew themselves out of the water.

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks....
 
The APA is the bargaining agent for the West pilots, not USAPA LLC as of 8/8/2014. Try to convince an arbitrator otherwise. Refer to the APA's pre-hearing brief, pg 21 and the paragraph prior to the conclusion. Taking those arguments and the company's parallel arguments in consideration, USAPA LLC has an uphill battle.
 
Good luck.
 
 
F. APA's NMB Certification and the West Pilot Request to Designate West Committee
 
 
In compliance with its obligations under the MOU, APA filed a petition with the NMB
 
on January 15,2014, seeking a determination that American and US Airways constituted a single carrier for the purposes of determining the applicable bargaining unit of Flight Deck Crew Members (i.e., pilots) under the Railway Labor Act ("RLA").
 
On August 8,2014, the NMB found that, American and US Airways were operating as single transportation system under the RLA for the purposes of representing craft or class of Flight Deck Crewmembers. American Airlines/US Airways, 41 NMB 174 (2014), J. Ex. 15. On September 16,2013, the NMB certified APA as the collective bargaining representative for all pilots at the merged carrier. American Airlines/US Airways, 41 NMB 289 (2014), J. Ex. 16. While USAPA continues to exist as an organization, following its decertification by the NMB, it is no longer the collective bargaining agent for the US Airways pilots and no longer owes any duty of fair representation to the West Pilots or any other pilots who performed flying for pre-merger US Airways. Rather, the duty of fair representation to all Company pilots now lies solely with APA.
 

21​

 ​

 
 
 
Here, as explained above, appointment of a separate merger committee to represent the interests of the West Pilots is consistent with APA's duty of fair representation. See supra at 25-30. Such designation is therefore also consistent with Allegheny-Mohawk Section 3's requirement that provisions be made "for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner." Accordingly, it is fully within APA's discretion under McCaskill-Bond to designate a West Committee.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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The identity of the bargaining agent of the West pilots has zero to do with the question for decision before the arbitration panel, pursuant to the PA and MB. Zero. Divide $675 by "0"....
 

 

[snapthis]

The identity of the bargaining agent of the West pilots has zero to do with the question for decision before the arbitration panel, pursuant to the PA and MB. Zero. Divide $675 by "0"....
 

The question being asked of the panel has to do with the APA's right, as our bargaining agent, to invite the West pilots to have a seat at the table which is clearly their intent.

 

[Phoenix]

The question being asked of the panel has to do with the APA's right, as our bargaining agent, to invite the West pilots to have a seat at the table which is clearly their intent.

It may seem to be the question, and it may seem relevant to you, but an answer to that question does not establish or prevent a west merger committee (a west committee is the goal isn't it?). Indeed the arb panel could determine the APA has no power to grant a west committee (an adverse answer to your assumed question) yet the arb panel could still grant the west request. In the alternative, the arb panel could answer your assumed question in a positive way, asserting that the APA indeed can establish a west committee.. But in that answer there is nothing to guarantee the APA would indeed establish the committee.

The question you assume to be important is not... And it has no relevance pursuant to the PA or MB.

Sadly implicit assumptions are still the foundation to your legal team strategy. After so long a time is it plausible they remain unaware of it?

 

[snapthis]

It may seem to be the question, and it may seem relevant to you, but an answer to that question does not establish or prevent a west merger committee (a west committee is the goal isn't it?). Indeed the arb panel could determine the APA has no power to grant a west committee (an adverse answer to your assumed question) yet the arb panel could still grant the west request. In the alternative, the arb panel could answer your assumed question in a positive way, asserting that the APA indeed can establish a west committee.. But in that answer there is nothing to guarantee the APA would indeed establish the committee.

The question you assume to be important is not... And it has no relevance pursuant to the PA or MB.

Sadly implicit assumptions are still the foundation to your legal team strategy. After so long a time is it plausible they remain unaware of it?

 
The West legal team has multiple strategies for various scenarios and are well prepared and are not relying on assumptions as a guide.

 

 

[luvthe9]

The West legal team has multiple strategies for various scenarios and are well prepared.................

The only strategy your legal team has is to keep milking you guys out of your money, Your legal has never been prepared for anything.

 

[EastUS1]

 
The West legal team has multiple strategies for various scenarios and are well prepared and are not relying on assumptions as a guide.
 

 
"The West legal team has multiple strategies for various scenarios..." None of which have ever proved at all successfull over the course of how many years now?...But no matter, I suppose, since "You won't even get 200 cards!" and "The nic will be crammed down your throats!" hardly amounted to "multiple strategies", but merely the mindlessly rabid droolings of hopelessly hard-core village idiots.  "...and are not relying on assumptions as a guide."...? Well, that certainly would be a refreshing first for the west, but it's fairly observed that all you're posting are nothing more than assumptions to this day.
 
An honest question for all "you'se" of the nic-or-nothing crowd: Aren't "you'se" at least starting to perceive yourselves as being just a little bit on the stubbornly stupid side of life? Seriously; how well has all that "NO fences!"..."The Nic is IT!"..."This is Sparta!" and "the nic undiluted" really worked out for "you'se"?
 
Oh well, at least you've produced/"gained" some amusing ties and T-shirts along the way...and what true spirtual solace some "Liberty Ties" and faded "Integrity Matters" T-shirts must offer "you'se" I can only try to imagine.

 

[Freighterguynow]

A strong case with a clear path to a promising result might be in order.

 

[EastUS1]

A strong case with a clear path to a promising result might be in order.

 
No worries about any clear path it seems, since "The West legal team has multiple strategies for various scenarios..."...I won't even bother with thoughts on any "strong case" being even at all possibly present. 

 

[Phoenix]

The West legal team has multiple strategies for various scenarios and are well prepared and are not relying on assumptions as a guide.

Until your legal team seizes upon the only question for the arb panel, then none of their strategies will be of any use.

 

[EastUS1]

Until your legal team seizes upon the only question for the arb panel, then none of their strategies will be of any use.

 
In all honesty; the west having their own reps to argue for them might be both amusing and interesting to see at this point: "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" there was the never-used-nic. Since then, any and all aspects of actual reality have shown just exactly what a complete crock of Fantasyland BS it was. Sans the nic; they can argue their hearts out in favor of "relative" seniority and slotting, in which case the newly hired folks captaining the 190's trump their entire right seat contigent, and slotting would be based on what?....Their vast fleet of 767's and 330's? The west supposedly wanted only what they "brought" to the merger with USAirways. I say let 'em now argue that very same case with all the overwhelming might of what they're "bringing" to the one with American. What else could be at all "fair and equitable" by west "standards"? Argued positions are either consistent and logical, or not....Period.
 
"But, BUT!....At the time of the nic, the moon was in Capricorn and the 'snapshot-in-time' found it waxing for the west!...It's CLEARLY not FAIR to apply ANY of that same 'logic" today, since Mercury's ascendant, and those people who's cusp's now in Pisces will be 'unfairly' afflicted!"..."And anyway: 'This is Sparta!' and 'Integrity Matters!'....Blah, blah, blah.

 

[EastUS1]

 
Thanks....
 
The APA is the bargaining agent for the West pilots, 

 
Of course, it must necessarily be noted that the APA "is the bargaining agent" for the APA/AMR folks as well, so it naturally goes without saying that they will spend many sleepless nights trying to best figure out how to help "you'se" mighty "spartans" along towards your noble goals of absurdly inflated "seniority" over even themselves, I mean..why wouldn't they? No matter. I'm sure they're all your best-friends-forever and will do everything in their power to "help" all of "you'se" out in PHX. Umm..might this be yet another appropriate time to quote P.T. Barnum's wisdom?

 

[Phoenix]

In all honesty; the west having their own reps to argue for them might be both amusing and interesting to see at this point: "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" there was the never-used-nic. Since then, any and all aspects of actual reality have shown just exactly what a complete crock of Fantasyland BS it was. Sans the nic; they can argue their hearts out in favor of "relative" seniority and slotting, in which case the newly hired folks captaining the 190's trump their entire right seat contigent, and slotting would be based on what?....Their vast fleet of 767's and 330's? The west supposedly wanted only what they "brought" to the merger with USAirways. I say let 'em now argue that very same case with all the overwhelming might of what they're "bringing" to the one with American. What else could be at all "fair and equitable" by west "standards"? Argued positions are either consistent and logical, or not....Period.
 
"But, BUT!....At the time of the nic, the moon was in Capricorn and the 'snapshot-in-time' found it waxing for the west!...It's CLEARLY not FAIR to apply ANY of that same 'logic" today, since Mercury's ascendant, and those people who's cusp's now in Pisces will be 'unfairly' afflicted!"..."And anyway: 'This is Sparta!' and 'Integrity Matters!'....Blah, blah, blah.

Yes, there legal tigers could be beneficial to all.. They have the "unofficial revised nicolau list" posted on their website but the "protocol agreement" is impossible to find....

P.S. Has anone noticed all the West websites end in ".com" (a commercial extension) and APA and USAPA end in ".org"? Hmmm...

 

[EastUS1]

... They have the "unofficial revised nicolau list" posted on their website .....

 
"revised"? By who?..."Sparta's" court astrologers, oracles, high priests and shamans-in-chief?...I can only hope it properly factored in the movement of comets since 2005, at the very least.