2014 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

I got a laugh about what someone heard in the lunchroom and reading other comedy. Meanwhile, court documents are being ignored. Nothing has changed around here, Bean.
 

CONCLUSION​

APA, as the sole collective bargaining representative for all of the Company's
pilots, can and should designate a separate merger committee to represent the distinct seniority interests of the pilots on the West seniority list .....

 
I'm glad good laughs are to had from lunch time conversations and really, why not? I've no doubt that morale is at all time record highs out in "sparta" and that $675 ties are flying off the shelves faster than "you'se" can stock them.  "Meanwhile, court documents are being ignored."  I'll hazard a guess that the permanent bid results aren't being ignored.
 
So which "West seniority list" is being referenced here? Surely "you'se" can't be at all now even suggesting that the nic isn't truly "It" after all...?
 
"Nothing has changed around here, Bean." Sigh!...Seriously? 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Res Judicata has reportedly stroked out.

 
I hope not. I'll hope it's just an issue of his keyboard finally being too deeply submerged in rabidly angry drool and spittle to still work at all...

 

[Freighterguynow]

That's a good question, because we now have third listers out west that aren't ex AWA. If I remember correctly the protocol just references AA, east and west US. When in actuality there is AA, east, west, and third listers. Guess we'll know in the next 1-2 years.
Bean

Probably because constructive notice pilots usually go DOH ? Dunno.

In case, hope the West gets its own MComm but yet another (!) website ?

Reminds me of those tv shows about hoarders.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Dined at the Philly food court this evening.  Wearing civvies.
 
A couple of Westies at the next table.  I could hear everything they said.  Very unhappy with the Easties, as is to be expected.  What really got my attention, though, was when they started trashing Eric Ferguson.  The "dumb ass" led them over the cliff.  Fed them a bunch of optimistic b.s. that led nowhere.  Pretends to be an expert when he doesn't know jack. 
 
Ouch.

"I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes!"

Jack Handy

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
 
It looks like the APA and the company agrees with that premise.
 
I got a laugh about what someone heard in the lunchroom and reading other comedy. Meanwhile, court documents are being ignored. Nothing has changed around here, Bean.
 
 
 

CONCLUSION​

 
As the exclusive NMB-certified collective bargaining representative for the Company's pilots, APA has the discretion to designate a separate merger committee to represent the seniority interests of the pilots on the US Airways (West) Seniority List in the upcoming US Airways/ American seniority-integration arbitration. This exercise of discretion is consistent with APA's duty of fair representation and McCaskill-Bond's requirement that provisions be made for a "fair and equitable" seniority integration process. Moreover, APA's designation of a West Committee is prudent in light of past industry practice, the fraught history between the East and West Pilots, USAPA's constitutional mandate, and the fact that USAPA no longer owes any duty to the West Pilots. APA therefore respectfully asks this Preliminary Arbitration Board to grant the West
interests of the West Pilots, and implementation of the resulting integrated seniority list will be subject to inevitable delay and uncertainty, to the detriment of all parties.
December 3, 2014.
 
 

CONCLUSION​

APA, as the sole collective bargaining representative for all of the Company's
pilots, can and should designate a separate merger committee to represent the distinct seniority interests of the pilots on the West seniority list in the US Airways-American seniority-integration arbitration so that the pilots on each of the three seniority lists to be integrated can be separately, fully, and fairly represented. If such a committee is not appointed, the arbitration will proceed without consideration of the distinct seniority Pilots' request, pursuant to Paragraph 8.b. of the Protocol Agreement, that a separate merger committee be designated to represent their interests in the upcoming seniority integration arbitration.
December 3, 2014.
 

USAPA's argument (don't forget them):
 
"“Arbitrators are not free to ignore the preclusive effect of prior judgments under the doctrines of res judicata and collateral estoppel”. Elkouri & Elkouri, How Arbitration Works, 7th ed., 11-34 (2012), quoting Aircraft Braking Systems Corporation v. Local 856, United Auto Workers, 97 F.3d 155, 159 (6th Cir. 1996). An arbitrator is usually given first opportunity to decide whether to give the prior judgment preclusive effect."
 
"This Panel must, as a matter of law, give preclusive effect to the prior court judgment in Addington III, which rejected Applicants’ claim for party status separate from the USAPA Merger Committee in the McCaskill-Bond Sections 3 and 13 proceeding, on either or both res judicata or collateral estoppel grounds. Either doctrine requires denial of the Applicants’ request to participate as a party in the SLI proceeding."

 

[end_of_alpa]

 



APA says, "APA therefore respectfully asks this Preliminary Arbitration Board to grant the West Pilots’ request, pursuant to Paragraph 8.b. of the Protocol Agreement, that a separate merger committee be designated to represent their interests in the upcoming seniority integration arbitration."

The Company says, "APA, as the sole collective bargaining representative for all of the Company’s pilots, can and should designate a separate merger committee to represent the distinct seniority interests of the pilots on the West seniority list in the US Airways-American seniority-integration arbitration so that the pilots on each of the three seniority lists to be integrated can be separately, fully, and fairly represented."

 

 


USAPA's argument (don't forget them):
 
"“Arbitrators are not free to ignore the preclusive effect of prior judgments under the doctrines of res judicata and collateral estoppel”. Elkouri & Elkouri, How Arbitration Works, 7th ed., 11-34 (2012), quoting Aircraft Braking Systems Corporation v. Local 856, United Auto Workers, 97 F.3d 155, 159 (6th Cir. 1996). An arbitrator is usually given first opportunity to decide whether to give the prior judgment preclusive effect."
 
 
"This Panel must, as a matter of law, give preclusive effect to the prior court judgment in Addington III, which rejected Applicants’ claim for party status separate from the USAPA Merger Committee in the McCaskill-Bond Sections 3 and 13 proceeding, on either or both res judicata or collateral estoppel grounds. Either doctrine requires denial of the Applicants’ request to participate as a party in the SLI proceeding."

 

[end_of_alpa]

Res Judicata has reportedly stroked out.

For real or just joking?  I truly hope not for real.  No one deserves stuff like that regardless of our differences.

 

[Phoenix]

Once again Marty argues irrelevant points. Once again builds impressive billing records based on implicit assumptions. His one trick pony has endurance. And of course the APA learned all about irrelevant double speak from Judge Silver.

The secret to progress and good order in the merger is that the West never has to actually win; they just need to be provided a place to perpetually purchase a feeble hope to quiet the still small voice that nags at them, constantly reminding them that the Nic died at the 9th long ago.

 

[Pi brat]

 
 
It looks like the APA and the company agrees with that premise.
 
I got a laugh about what someone heard in the lunchroom and reading other comedy. Meanwhile, court documents are being ignored. Nothing has changed around here, Bean.
 
 
 

CONCLUSION​

 
As the exclusive NMB-certified collective bargaining representative for the Company's pilots, APA has the discretion to designate a separate merger committee to represent the seniority interests of the pilots on the US Airways (West) Seniority List in the upcoming US Airways/ American seniority-integration arbitration. This exercise of discretion is consistent with APA's duty of fair representation and McCaskill-Bond's requirement that provisions be made for a "fair and equitable" seniority integration process. Moreover, APA's designation of a West Committee is prudent in light of past industry practice, the fraught history between the East and West Pilots, USAPA's constitutional mandate, and the fact that USAPA no longer owes any duty to the West Pilots. APA therefore respectfully asks this Preliminary Arbitration Board to grant the West
interests of the West Pilots, and implementation of the resulting integrated seniority list will be subject to inevitable delay and uncertainty, to the detriment of all parties.
December 3, 2014.
 
 

CONCLUSION​

APA, as the sole collective bargaining representative for all of the Company's
pilots, can and should designate a separate merger committee to represent the distinct seniority interests of the pilots on the West seniority list in the US Airways-American seniority-integration arbitration so that the pilots on each of the three seniority lists to be integrated can be separately, fully, and fairly represented. If such a committee is not appointed, the arbitration will proceed without consideration of the distinct seniority Pilots' request, pursuant to Paragraph 8.b. of the Protocol Agreement, that a separate merger committee be designated to represent their interests in the upcoming seniority integration arbitration.
December 3, 2014.
 

You do understand that those "conclusions" are the parties opinions, and not a decision, right? You guys have sometimes failed to see that distinction in the past.

 

[Phoenix]

You do understand that those "conclusions" are the parties opinions, and not a decision, right? You guys have sometimes failed to see that distinction in the past.

APA's discretion is not the question before the arbitration panel pursuant to the protocol agreement, or MB. The APA is merely stroking the west and stacking the deck against any future lawsuits.

The west is grabbing this and shaking it like the rattle toy it is.

 

[AWE Dog]

We tried to give you a seat at the table but the Arbitrator said No. We are so Sorry.

 

[luvthe9]

What a bid, I sure bet the westies wish they took the NIC when it was offered to them.  I guess this is what hapens when you get greedy.

 

[AWE Dog]

Dined at the Philly food court this evening.  Wearing civvies.
 
A couple of Westies at the next table.  I could hear everything they said.  Very unhappy with the Easties, as is to be expected.  What really got my attention, though, was when they started trashing Eric Ferguson.  The "dumb ass" led them over the cliff.  Fed them a bunch of optimistic b.s. that led nowhere.  Pretends to be an expert when he doesn't know jack. 
 
Ouch.

They were on a much needed break from all that East flying.

 

[Claxon]

It looks like the APA and the company agrees with that premise.
 
I got a laugh about what someone heard in the lunchroom and reading other comedy. Meanwhile, court documents are being ignored. Nothing has changed around here, Bean.
 
 
 

CONCLUSION​

 
As the exclusive NMB-certified collective bargaining representative for the Company's pilots, APA has the discretion to designate a separate merger committee to represent the seniority interests of the pilots on the US Airways (West) Seniority List in the upcoming US Airways/ American seniority-integration arbitration. This exercise of discretion is consistent with APA's duty of fair representation and McCaskill-Bond's requirement that provisions be made for a "fair and equitable" seniority integration process. Moreover, APA's designation of a West Committee is prudent in light of past industry practice, the fraught history between the East and West Pilots, USAPA's constitutional mandate, and the fact that USAPA no longer owes any duty to the West Pilots. APA therefore respectfully asks this Preliminary Arbitration Board to grant the West
interests of the West Pilots, and implementation of the resulting integrated seniority list will be subject to inevitable delay and uncertainty, to the detriment of all parties.
December 3, 2014.
 
 

CONCLUSION​

APA, as the sole collective bargaining representative for all of the Company's
pilots, can and should designate a separate merger committee to represent the distinct seniority interests of the pilots on the West seniority list in the US Airways-American seniority-integration arbitration so that the pilots on each of the three seniority lists to be integrated can be separately, fully, and fairly represented. If such a committee is not appointed, the arbitration will proceed without consideration of the distinct seniority Pilots' request, pursuant to Paragraph 8.b. of the Protocol Agreement, that a separate merger committee be designated to represent their interests in the upcoming seniority integration arbitration.
December 3, 2014.

Welcome back.
American APA pilots smiling smugly as they boldly proclaim former america west pilots should be represented. Stage right William Wilder strapping into his battle tank to run over Leonidas. The APA leaders and James know the law. There is no legal ground to break west pilots out of USAPA. This is just one way to feign " concern" by legacy APA.
west pilots being teed up by APA. FORE!

 

[luvthe9]

  The quintessential money pit.
http://www.west-merger-committee.com/

"Out team" what a joke if I were a westie I would be up in arms, these are the same idiots that have ruined the carrears of the west pilots with all their promises of the NIC and are still locked in PHX with no future in sight while the rest of us enjoy massive upward growth.


If you kids were smart you would get rid of all of them and you ace legal team. Hopefully you know you are being played by the APA, but remember be a "good union pilot"