2014 Pilot Discussion

[nevergiveup]

Ok....... how about our safety record. I don't know about the other ex AWA pilots, but I'm pretty proud about that. Granted I wasn't at AWA for a long time prior to the merger, but I was very impressed with the safety culture. Especially when compared to the likes is Southwest which was another low cost carrier, that friends flying there told me stories about. Don't forget we wore hats prior to our merger with US too

Beancounter

Ok I promise last rant for the day.

Fly Quantus!

 

[Claxon]

That's not what I got out of that quote. It's frustrating to watch valuable things that were negotiated for in the past, by hard working indivuals, given away because the other group was/is facing a bankruptcy contract. AWA pilots have had to watch/endure this twice.

I certainly don't feel like we're saving them. Just like the AWA/US merger, in the long run this is good for both groups. Just because I'm happy about and support the merger and the APA doesn't mean I need to be happy about giving up things that, in my opinion, we don't need to give up.

Just my two cent rant for the day.

Beancounter

What have you given up thus far due to the US Airways merger?  Nothing.  You have been flying by the america west contract.  In fact you gained retirement benefits you never had or earned, profit sharing you never had or earned and the ability to ride on the jump seat without getting kicked off for weight, plus much more.  You as a america west pilot have not lost anything yet with APA because there is a MOU, but not a JCBA yet.
 
Your exact attitude is what I was talking about in my quote;
 
("west pilots (attitude) think they saved you APA pilots, get used to their rhetoric in future legal filings.")  Claxon

 

[luvthe9]

What have you given up thus far due to the US Airways merger?  Nothing.  You have been flying by the america west contract.  In fact you gained retirement benefits you never had or earned, profit sharing you never had or earned and the ability to ride on the jump seat without getting kicked off for weight, plus much more.  You as a america west pilot have not lost anything yet with APA because there is a MOU, but not a JCBA yet.
 
Your exact attitude is what I was talking about in my quote;
 
("west pilots (attitude) think they saved you APA pilots, get used to their rhetoric in future legal filings.")  Claxon

They forget we had to give them approximately 26% of OUR flying to keep them profitable.

 

[EastUS1]

Ok....... how about our safety record.

 
OK..How about it? What you've been is extremely lucky and nothing more, period. One of your tribe even managed to destroy a perfectly good 737 after landing, simply from having a single thrust reverser inop and known to be wired to prevent deployment, and, after of course properly instructing all at American on how to be perfect pilots,  perhaps you could brag to these clearly much lesser than AWA outfits as well?:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/01/us/air-force-s-precision-team-after-5-deaths-to-fly-again.html
 
http://www.blueangels-usn.org/accident_history.html
 
I'd suggest being a bit gentle with the American folks, as many of them also know people who've perished from the business of flight, and they "might," just possibly mistake "spartan" pride for naively childish foolishness....Just sayin'...

 

[767one]

The point is he met Jerry Glass and is therefore part of the New American management team.  He has been blessed and anointed as one of the "CHOSEN".  You know, the ones who contribute money to the AOL.

All you need is Dave Siegal to round out the team.

 

[Phoenix]

"...in the opinion of APA’s General Counsel, the “Nicolai award” is NOT legally binding."

 

[Pi brat]

"...in the opinion of APA’s General Counsel, the “Nicolai award” is NOT legally binding."

It's been so long they couldn't even remember how to spell Nicolau.

 

[A320 Driver]

Can anyone confirm that Jerry Glass was hired by the company to negotiate the JCBA???

 

[FL430]

"...in the opinion of APA’s General Counsel, the “Nicolai award” is NOT legally binding."

.....and the APA strategists have figured out they can advance their members ahead of both east and west by not using the Nic!

The westies can have consolation though......had they not been saved by the east they would NEVER have had a chance to be a part of the biggest airline in the world.

 

[crazystnic]

Can anyone confirm that Jerry Glass was hired by the company to negotiate the JCBA???

That's what I read online... What a bunch of BS.. No culture change

 

[Phoenix]

Can anyone confirm that Jerry Glass was hired by the company to negotiate the JCBA???

https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/Home/APAMemberNews/tabid/842/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/5097/PHL-Update.aspx

PHL October 27 update

 

[fifidriver]

OK..How about it? What you've been is extremely lucky and nothing more, period. One of your tribe even managed to destroy a perfectly good 737 after landing, simply from having a single thrust reverser inop and known to be wired to prevent deployment, and, after of course properly instructing all at American on how to be perfect pilots,  perhaps you could brag to these clearly much lesser than AWA outfits as well?:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/01/us/air-force-s-precision-team-after-5-deaths-to-fly-again.html
 
http://www.blueangels-usn.org/accident_history.html

 
I'd suggest being a bit gentle with the American folks, as many of them also know people who've perished from the business of flight, and they "might," just possibly mistake "spartan" pride for naively childish foolishness....Just sayin'...

Ahhh... Eastholius Moronicus... The prodigious little poo factory himself.

This last little missive from Moronville illustrates perfectly, what's so sadly lacking in both your intellect and your integrity. You obviously labor under the false assumption that utilizing a few multi-syllabic words makes you appear astute and principled. You are neither.

First; it was an A320, the thrust reverser was inoperative, however, they are NOT wired to prevent inadvertent deployment. Additionally, the procedure at the time was not to operate both reverse levers simultaneously, as it is now, but to leave the inoperative lever down and activate only the operative reverser. The pilot in question apparently forgot that his reverser was inoperative until shortly after touchdown, and then in an apparent attempt to stow the inoperative lever only, inadvertently placed the thrust lever in question to the "climb" detent.
The aircraft exited the runway. The procedure was amended.

Your first problem is a lack of integrity. You did not make a mistake and say it was a B737, you did not know what you were talking about, but you had no qualms about spewing bulls__t from your keyboard. This is why a fairly common reaction to you online is an immediate "minus one". I suspect that it probably happens that way in real life too.
Your second issue is a lack of logic. I'm not sure if the circuits are just addled with alcohol, but your idea that safety, or a safety record is just a matter of "what you've been is extremely lucky, and nothing more, period.", is profoundly ignorant.
I believe that most thinking aviators realize implicitly, that an element of luck, or lack thereof, and an element of preparedness are BOTH inherent in an excellent safety record. Think, Fate is the Hunter, the "golden BB" or what have you versus a proactive exercise of safety related policies and programs.
America West offered such things as: a "no-fly" list, no jeopardy training, additional sim time if requested, an ASAP (self reporting) program, a fatigue policy, a sympathetic Chief Pilot's office and so forth.
The third problem that you have is a profound inability to self-critique, a classic symptom of a narcissistic personality disorder. If the issue in question is yourself, your ex-airline or your ex-branch of military service, you exhibit a distinct dishonesty or inability to discuss sometimes unpleasant realities, behaviors and actions.
Shall we discuss the Fairchild B52 and it's aircraft commander v.s. Al Haynes?
KTGSD!!!

 

[EastUS1]

That's what I read online... What a bunch of BS.. No culture change

 
 
Thta's not entirery accurate...the..umm...er... "culture" has spread over into a much larger Petri dish.

 

[EastUS1]

Ahhh... Eastholius Moronicus... The prodigious little poo factory himself.

This last little missive from Moronville illustrates perfectly, what's so sadly lacking in both your intellect and your integrity. You obviously labor under the false assumption that utilizing a few multi-syllabic words makes you appear astute and principled. You are neither.
 
Shall we discuss the Fairchild B52 and it's aircraft commander v.s. Al Haynes?
KTGSD!!!

 
 
Well, to be fair here; it's difficult to compete with the intellectual depth and creative brilliance needed to produce such gems as : "Ahhh... Eastholius Moronicus... The prodigious little poo factory himself."
 
"Shall we discuss the Fairchild B52 and it's aircraft commander v.s. Al Haynes?" Feel free to do so, but do first convince any of us that "you'se" have even the slightest, personal qualifications for the tasking. Are you Al Haynes?  Should Captain Haynes be properly AWA-ed by your "safety record", given that he himself can claim no such "glory"? Can ANYONE even begin to be as obtuse and down right clueless as you would have us believe "you'se" are by way of your postings?...Seriously?
 
The single line of your diatribe worthy of any note is the following: "I believe that most thinking aviators realize implicitly, that an element of luck, or lack thereof, and an element of preparedness are BOTH inherent in an excellent safety record."
 
Since you've previously made both utterly infantile and wholly ridiculous statements and claims on the the subject; you may now, finally, tell us all how YOU would've commanded 1549 so very much better than was done...? Perhaps you can as well instruct us all on where Captain Haynes could've done better?
 
"This last little missive from Moronville illustrates perfectly, what's so sadly lacking in both your intellect and your integrity." I couldn't agree more fully with that sentiment.

 

[EastUS1]

Your first problem is a lack of integrity. You did not make a mistake and say it was a B737, you did not know what you were talking about, but you had no qualms about spewing bulls__t from your keyboard.

 
"You did not make a mistake and say it was a B737"  Huh? Actually, i did make a mistake and it's freely admitted. It was apparently an Airbus. I apologize for the error and wish to correct it:
 
Cause
The captain's failure to maintain directional control and his inadvertent application of asymmetrical engine thrust while attempting to move the #1 thrust lever out of reverse. A factor in the accident was the crew's inadequate coordination and crew resource management.
Source: National Transportation Safety Board accident database system (ADMS2000), last updated Jan 1, 2010
 
On August 28, 2002, at 1844 mountain standard time, an Airbus Industrie A320-231, N635AW, operating as America West Airlines flight number 794, landed on runway 08 at the Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, Phoenix, Arizona. While decelerating about midfield, the airplane veered right and exited off the side of the runway. Thereafter, the airplane crossed the apron area east of intersection B8 and experienced the separation of its nose gear strut assembly upon traversing the dirt infield area south of the runway, where it slid to a stop on its nose. The airplane was substantially damaged. On board the airplane there were 2 flight crewmembers, 3 flight attendants, and 154 passengers (including 4 lap children), for a total of 159 occupants. Of the 10 persons injured, 1 of the crewmembers (the captain) sustained a minor injury, 7 passengers and 1 lap child sustained minor injuries, and 1 passenger was seriously injured."
 
America West Flight 556 July 1, 2002 A319-100 Miami, Florida The flight was halted by Transportation Security Administration and local police after a tip that the pilots appeared to be drunk. Sobriety tests showed that the pilots were legally intoxicated, and they were eventually sentenced to prison for operating an aircraft while intoxicated.
 
America West Flight 794 August 28, 2002 A320-231 Phoenix, Arizona The pilot failed to maintain directional control during landing, causing the aircraft to veer off the side of the runway onto a dirt infield, and the nose gear strut collapsed. The aircraft was written off.
 
Should we eagerly anticipate hearing volumes more about your "perfect safety record"? I suppose that since "only" 7 passengers and 1 lap child sustained minor injuries, and 1 passenger was seriously injured, everyone should give you "perfect" pass? How about where "The flight was halted by Transportation Security Administration and local police after a tip that the pilots appeared to be drunk."...Equally "perfect" as well? How would that one have quite possibly played out, had not police intervened?
 
I'll necessarily stick with my earlier observation: What you've been is extremely lucky and nothing more, period.