2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

Wow. Too bad for him he will be Dave's copilot! Lol
Talk about a sh!tty career at a garbage airline like US Air. Guess he wasn't hirable elsewhere?

So sorry cupcake, AWA was the place to go for all the scabs and rejects for all airlines, it's OK if that was the best you could do don't be so ashamed. Our careers have been pretty good all things considered, how are all those upgrades going out west, moving up the ladder fast? New hires in wide body's and one year captains, not to shabby, did you see the paint job our (east) 330 bet want to seat sniff that one.


Remember be a "good union pilot" and don't lie about being a scab on the APA application. We gave them the videos and scab list.

 

[AWE Dog]

Those 1989 hires with 22 years couldn't have had 22 years when the AWA/bankrupt US Airways merger happened in 2005.  Fact.  Try to keep up.  Or go back to 2nd grade.

The ones I know had 14 years active service in 2005 and now have been wide body f/o's for 12+ years. Their W2's aren't much different than west captains and making way then every west f/o. Yea, I'm sure they wished they could have been west pilots. (Sarcasam)

 

[algflyr]

I've read over the PA quite a few times since it's release. My feeling is that it won't allow the Nic to be used. A lot of different thoughts and ideas have been put out there, but I like to try and read the actual language and figure out what it really means. Here's my take:

The first question is will a separate merger committee even be allowed for the West pilots? My first inclination is the preliminary arbitration board will say no. It boils down to the simple fact that the West pilots are legally represented by USAPA for SLI purposes, as are the East. The process must be consistent with the M/B process, and that process doesn't allow separate representation, as Judge Silver reiterated. However, anything can happen in arbitration...

So the next question is what happens IF the West is allowed a separate merger committee? This is a little more complicated, but if you read carefully through the PA, the process seems quite clear. So let's assume the West is granted their own merger committee.

The PA quite clearly spells out what can be negotiated. The West committee, if allowed, MUST follow the protocols set out in the PA. Paragraph 8 deals with a possible West committee. And if allowed, Paragraph 8.C.3 says paragraphs 2 and 5 will be reconsidered. 

Paragraph 2 deals with the exchange of employment data. So the West will get to verify their own list. Paragraph 2.b says the lists used will be the status quo lists in effect on December 9th, 2013. That's not the Nic. So here the West is tied to using their own separate list in negotiating the items as defined in paragraph 5.

Paragraph 5 defines what is to be negotiated. Paragraph 5.a says the merger committees will negotiate "matters referenced in subparagraph b". So the West will be tied to these items. These items basically define what each party brings to the merger. Pilots, planes, staffing formulas etc... 

Paragraph 5.D says the merger committees can limit the arbitration panels authority. They can define exactly what the arbitration panel is to decide. They can "limit the issues to be submitted to the Arbitration Panel for resolution." Paragraph 11 further backs this up as it says that the arbitrators will receive the "stipulations" prior to even beginning the arbitration. I don't think the arbitrators will be given the authority to even consider the Nic. 

Paragraph 5.E says "No position nor anything said by any participant during negotiations shall be admissible in the seniority integration arbitration." So even if the West tries to discuss the Nic in negotiations, it can't be mentioned to the arbitrators.

Lastly, paragraph 15 says the integrated list resulting from this process, "whether arrived at through agreement or arbitration" will be binding on everyone. 

It's interesting they mention "agreement" in paragraph 15. My personal belief is that they will agree on a integrated list without the arbitration process. There will be a few minor sticking point that they will submit to the arbitrators. The arbitrators will be limited to ONLY those items. Then they will rule and put out an official list that was legally produced through federal arbitration... 

Just my opinion...

 

[EastCheats]

You guys comment that arbitration is the last stop for APA.  Does that mean that you intend to abide by arbitration this time?

If they like the outcome and this do-over, maybe. If they don't like the results they'll try to cheat again.

There isn't an option this time, "It's Federal".... As in law, this time.
Not just some arbitrators favor to a union without a merger policy with defined policies.

So, yea, the east will abide, so will west and APA.... Like it or not, without any legal recourse, including DFR's....

Sweet.....

You are darn right you'll abide and you'd better get familiar with some names:

Craig Neel is in charge of the office that oversees USAPA.

Craig Neel, District Director
Craig Neel serves as the District Director for the Atlanta-Nashville District Office, which encompasses the geographic jurisdiction of Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Alabama (except for two southwestern counties). Under the oversight of a regional director, the OLMS district director is responsible for leading a criminal and civil enforcement program within an assigned jurisdiction, including responsibility to formulate annual office program, budgetary, and administrative operations plans, and monitor and evaluate the program work performed in the assigned field office. Among his significant previous positions, Mr. Neel served as an investigator with OLMS in the Washington, DC District Office and the Los Angeles District Offices Phoenix Remote Work Site.


Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS)
How To File a Complaint with OLMS
The Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) conducts both criminal and civil investigations of alleged violations of the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA) and related laws.
Criminal Investigations
OLMS criminal investigations involve:
the embezzlement or theft of union funds, property or assets
recordkeeping and reporting violations such as false statements, false reports and destruction of records
the use or threatened use of force or violence to restrain, coerce or intimidate a member in order to interfere with or prevent the member from exercising their LMRDA rights
extortionate picketing - picketing on or about an employers premises for the personal profit of any individual by obtaining money from the employer
prohibitions against persons convicted of certain felonies holding union office or employment in certain positions
unlawful acts relating to trusteeships, loans to officers and payment of fines
union election fraud where there has been ballot tampering or other illegal acts committed in order to influence the outcome of the election
Criminal investigations are opened based on various sources of information including complaints. Please contact the OLMS field office closest to you if you want to provide information about a criminal matter. You do not have to tell us your name in order to provide information. However, you should be prepared to provide us with information identifying the union and persons involved and describe the suspected illegal activity.
You may also contact us via e-mail at OLMS-Public@dol.gov or call 202-693-0143.
Click here for information about recent OLMS criminal enforcement actions.
Civil Investigations
Civil investigations conducted by OLMS relate to:
the conduct of union officer elections
financial audits of union books and records
filing of acceptable reports by unions, union officers, employers, consultants and others
the imposition and continuance of trusteeships over subordinate unions by a parent body
determinations as to whether an organization is a labor organization
obtaining copies of collective bargaining agreements for members or the right to inspect the agreements
Civil investigations are opened based on various sources of information including complaints, review of required financial reports and audits conducted by OLMS. Please contact the OLMS field office closest to you for guidance in filing a complaint with OLMS about a civil matter. If you wish to file a complaint about an election of union officers, please review Union Officer Elections: A Complainants Guide.
You may also contact us via e-mail at OLMS-Public@dol.gov or call 202-693-0143.
Click here for information about recent OLMS civil enforcement actions and voluntary compliance agreements.
Last Updated: 12/04/08

Nashville Office
233 Cumberland Bend Dr., Room 110
Nashville, TN 37228
Office (615) 736-5906
Fax (615) 736-7148

 

[AWE Dog]

Last time I looked there are 1989 hires that are little bus captains, that's good for only 6 years service. Today 2 more east captains retire and average 1 a day the rest of the month.

 

[CactusPilot1]

So sorry cupcake, AWA was the place to go for all the scabs and rejects for all airlines, it's OK if that was the best you could do don't be so ashamed. Our careers have been pretty good all things considered, how are all those upgrades going out west, moving up the ladder fast? New hires in wide body's and one year captains, not to shabby, did you see the paint job our (east) 330 bet want to seat sniff that one.
Remember be a "good union pilot" and don't lie about being a scab on the APA application. We gave them the videos and scab list.

Cupcake?

Do you always think about food? I have the APA list and I see a couple names missing from your side of Mississippi that are not going to be accepted as "good union pilots" so it's probably good they saved themselves from an embarrassing rejection if they lied about their past.

DOUGHBOY

The appropriate authorities have names too which may help investigators.

Criminal Investigations
OLMS criminal investigations involve:
the embezzlement or theft of union funds, property or assets
recordkeeping and reporting violations such as false statements, false reports and destruction of records

 

[luvthe9]

Cupcake?
Do you always think about food? I have the APA list and I see a couple names missing from your side of Mississippi that are not going to be accepted as "good union pilots" so it's probably good they saved themselves from an embarrassing rejection if they lied about their past.
DOUGHBOY

Settle down JJ, we will take good care of you in these merger negotiations, you will wind up where you belong, NICless.

Do you lift gear for you scab pilots, must be an uncomfortable trip. Remember the APA knows all about the scab history of the west pilots, they don't like you guys, I bet you sue them also.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Settle down JJ, we will take good care of you in these merger negotiations, you will wind up where you belong, NICless.
Do you lift gear for you scab pilots, must be an uncomfortable trip. Remember the APA knows all about the scab history of the west pilots, they don't like you guys, I bet you sue them also.

You must be talking to those people in your head. They don't like UCRAPA. The APA knows you are scum and want nothing to do with investigations and lawsuits and the trouble that follows. They APA is smart enough to distance itself from the stench.

 

[luvthe9]

You must be talking to those people in your head. They don't like UCRAPA. The APA knows you are scum and want nothing to do with investigations and lawsuits and the trouble that follows. They APA is smart enough to distance itself from the stench.

Nice try, better luck next time!

Hey don't you scabs wish you took the NIC when it was offered to you?

"Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now"


I'm sorry this one never gets old.

 

[traderjake]

 

 

I'm sorry this one never gets old.

 
"Kasher will pay"

 

 

[Claxon]

If they like the outcome and this do-over, maybe. If they don't like the results they'll try to cheat again.You are darn right you'll abide and you'd better get familiar with some names:
Craig Neel is in charge of the office that oversees USAPA.
Craig Neel, District Director
Craig Neel serves as the District Director for the Atlanta-Nashville District Office, which encompasses the geographic jurisdiction of Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Alabama (except for two southwestern counties). Under the oversight of a regional director, the OLMS district director is responsible for leading a criminal and civil enforcement program within an assigned jurisdiction, including responsibility to formulate annual office program, budgetary, and administrative operations plans, and monitor and evaluate the program work performed in the assigned field office. Among his significant previous positions, Mr. Neel served as an investigator with OLMS in the Washington, DC District Office and the Los Angeles District Offices Phoenix Remote Work Site.
Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS)
How To File a Complaint with OLMS
The Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) conducts both criminal and civil investigations of alleged violations of the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA) and related laws.
Criminal Investigations
OLMS criminal investigations involve:
the embezzlement or theft of union funds, property or assets
recordkeeping and reporting violations such as false statements, false reports and destruction of records
the use or threatened use of force or violence to restrain, coerce or intimidate a member in order to interfere with or prevent the member from exercising their LMRDA rights
extortionate picketing - picketing on or about an employers premises for the personal profit of any individual by obtaining money from the employer
prohibitions against persons convicted of certain felonies holding union office or employment in certain positions
unlawful acts relating to trusteeships, loans to officers and payment of fines
union election fraud where there has been ballot tampering or other illegal acts committed in order to influence the outcome of the election
Criminal investigations are opened based on various sources of information including complaints. Please contact the OLMS field office closest to you if you want to provide information about a criminal matter. You do not have to tell us your name in order to provide information. However, you should be prepared to provide us with information identifying the union and persons involved and describe the suspected illegal activity.
You may also contact us via e-mail at OLMS-Public@dol.gov or call 202-693-0143.
Click here for information about recent OLMS criminal enforcement actions.
Civil Investigations
Civil investigations conducted by OLMS relate to:
the conduct of union officer elections
financial audits of union books and records
filing of acceptable reports by unions, union officers, employers, consultants and others
the imposition and continuance of trusteeships over subordinate unions by a parent body
determinations as to whether an organization is a labor organization
obtaining copies of collective bargaining agreements for members or the right to inspect the agreements
Civil investigations are opened based on various sources of information including complaints, review of required financial reports and audits conducted by OLMS. Please contact the OLMS field office closest to you for guidance in filing a complaint with OLMS about a civil matter. If you wish to file a complaint about an election of union officers, please review Union Officer Elections: A Complainants Guide.
You may also contact us via e-mail at OLMS-Public@dol.gov or call 202-693-0143.
Click here for information about recent OLMS civil enforcement actions and voluntary compliance agreements.
Last Updated: 12/04/08
Nashville Office
233 Cumberland Bend Dr., Room 110
Nashville, TN 37228
Office (615) 736-5906
Fax (615) 736-7148

Tell Mr. Neel I can provide unquestionable evidence that the nicolau seniority award was destroyed and shreded into pieces by USAPA.

 

[luvthe9]

Read this:
 
The West will have a merger committee at the MB arbitration.

Read this:
 
The West will have a merger committee at the MB arbitration.

 

[traderjake]

That's my prediction, as was Nicolau's arbitration result.

 

[Phoenix]

You guys comment that arbitration is the last stop for APA.  Does that mean that you intend to abide by arbitration this time?

I find it amazing that you guys still don't understand that arbitration is only meaningful to the extent of the terms (contract). The MB law is far different than the 2005 TA... 2005...? 2005!?!? :Lol:

P.s. It is the company that abides by the contract... Not that you will ever admit to understanding that.

 

[snapthis]

You guys comment that arbitration is the last stop for APA.  Does that mean that you intend to abide by arbitration this time?

 
 

I find it amazing that you guys still don't understand that arbitration is only meaningful to the extent of the terms (contract). The MB law is far different than the 2005 TA... 2005...? 2005!?!?

P.s. It is the company that abides by the contract... Not that you will ever admit to understanding that.

 
I think he was asking a yes or no question, Fenix.