2014 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

The nic is gone.  The west merger committee is gone.  Start from there and provide some west protection from the APA pilots, after the near future when most of the East pilots will be playing shuffle board.  
 
USAPA started out protecting themselves from alpa, it would be nice to go out protecting all from APA,  alpa and apa both have a history of predatory conduct.

 

[A320 Driver]

If Bill Wilder said it's good to go, that's good enough for me. The junior lawyers have caused us nothing but grief and embarrassed themselves and the rest of us.

 

[Claxon]

If Bill Wilder said it's good to go, that's good enough for me. The junior lawyers have caused us nothing but grief and embarrassed themselves and the rest of us.

Mr. Wilder is the best, but he does not have to live with the results.  The west had some talented attorneys that gave them the best advice available, the west pilots have to live with the results.  You are getting the best advice, but you make the ultimate decision.

 

[Claxon]

http://apademocracy.com/
 
http://apademocracy.com/images/pdfs/usapa-cb-11.10.2008.pdf

 

[flyer63]

I don't think wanting to get clearer language at this point is a bad thing. Even if the TA is approved at tomorrows meeting, the arbitration still CANNOT happen until the JCBA is approved and in place. That ain't happening anytime soon. So we have time to get concise language in place. I agree with the concerns on the CLT Chairman, but was wondering why he made his decision so quickly and was able to get out an update within a few hours. Surely their will be a Q and A period with council before the vote. The Chairman can voice his concerns there and have them addressed by council. It seems he has already made up his mind.
 
There is a lot of the language I like in the TA, but there is also some I have questions about... I guess we'll see what tomorrow brings...

I agree seemed odd he made up his mind before the meeting

 

[flyer63]

Yes, by all means! Lets show them like we did on LOA93 and the NIC.
You dumbasses amaze me...

You are in the top 500 no?' Probably has little effect on you.... Needs to be looked at carefully..

 

[A320 Driver]

Go to a BPR meeting and watch him in action...nothing will surprise you after that.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The merger committee and (I assume) merger attorneys are promoting the PA as a way to deep six the Nic. Certain BPR reps are saying the PA will resurrect the Nic. I will listen to both sides tomorrow.

One thing which concerns me is the timeline. Absent a PA the only remaining firewall against the Nic (or a facsimile) being raised at arbitration is the injunction litigation in D.C. The problem is timeline. The D.C. case won't be resolved for some months. USAPA's dissolution, in all likelihood, will happen before then. I want to hear the plan which BF and others opposed to the agreement have in mind if the PA is rejected.

 

[electricjet98]

The merger committee and (I assume) merger attorneys are promoting the PA as a way to deep six the Nic. Certain BPR reps are saying the PA will resurrect the Nic. I will listen to both sides tomorrow.

One thing which concerns me is the timeline. Absent a PA the only remaining firewall against the Nic (or a facsimile) being raised at arbitration is the injunction litigation in D.C. The problem is timeline. The D.C. case won't be resolved for some months. USAPA's dissolution, in all likelihood, will happen before then. I want to hear the plan which BF and others opposed to the agreement have in mind if the PA is rejected.

How much is BF's opinion and stated intentions rooted in the old east mindset and failings? Much easier to vote everything down that comes across your desk with the fear card than to take any action that you may need to actually defend with articulated reason.

 

[fr8tmastr]

i hate the East....No no no the West blows, wait my rep is better than yours.
 
Why don't you people, that means all of you read paragraph 16.  And if you can sidline your contempt for the "other side" long enough, think about that iron clad language contained in paragraph 16.   Add that to the outstanding MOU language of "may get a single certificate".  then thow in a dab of "occupational date".  If that doesnt get the warm and fuzzies going nothing will.
 
I know that would never happen because DP loves us.... right
 
If not,
I have a used car to sell you that should have a clean title, and it "may" run.   But not to worry I will add a warrenty, and then fix it for you as soon as its "feasable" for me to do so.  The warrenty on the car will go into effect when the title clears or when the warrenty goes into effect whaichever is later.

 

[A320 Driver]

i hate the East....No no no the West blows, wait my rep is better than yours.
 
Why don't you people, that means all of you read paragraph 16.  And if you can sidline your contempt for the "other side" long enough, think about that iron clad language contained in paragraph 16.   Add that to the outstanding MOU language of "may get a single certificate".  then thow in a dab of "occupational date".  If that doesnt get the warm and fuzzies going nothing will.
 
I know that would never happen because DP loves us.... right
 
If not,
I have a used car to sell you that should have a clean title, and it "may" run.   But not to worry I will add a warrenty, and then fix it for you as soon as its "feasable" for me to do so.  The warrenty on the car will go into effect when the title clears or when the warrenty goes into effect whaichever is later.

I trust the MC and merger lawyers to make the call. And I can spell...

 

[fr8tmastr]

I trust the MC and merger lawyers to make the call. And I can spell...

You are the exact person that allows pensions to be lost, scope to be at 76/90 and counting, and most union leadership to become management. 
 
By the way is there anything I can sell you using the fine language your trusted lawyers have come up with?
 
Ignore the message, check the spelling.... Brilliant move!!

 

[CAVOK]

November bid results out. I noticed that April 2013 hire dates F/Os on the PHL 330. Congratulations! Thank you AoL for not letting ALPA sell us down the Wye River (again) with their shortsighted agreements that primarily benefited the older, senior pilots. ALPA's myopic view is only surpassed by that of 2004 hire Eric Ferguson etal.  

 

[A320 Driver]

Then that would make you the exact person that passes on the deal that locks us into LOA93 for years and refuses to consider the MC and lawyers advice that lands us the NIC. You look a gift horse in the mouth, are constantly suspicious of anything that isn't sealed in stone and when things blow up in your face you conveniently find ways to blame someone else.
 
I do not take it lightly when the hard working members of our committees hammer out an agreement after months of trying. I appreciate the talent that we've hired to advise us and I believe it when they tell us "this is the deal". I can understand their frustration when they are ridiculed for their efforts by idiots on the MEC or BPR who have made their minds up before they have even been briefed on the ends and outs of an agreement and are just itching to flex their muscles and vote NO to put their gonads on display.
 
We lost our retirement when a sitting MEC refused to consider a B plan or a freeze when they were told it was time. We lost the NIC arbitration when an MEC told the MC and advisors that it was DOH or nothing...no matter what the price. It's unprofessional, juvenile and self defeating. It's unionism run amuck and I can't wait for them to close the doors on Woodlawn so we can neuter the idiots and their supporters that have cost us so much over the years.
 
There...

 

[Piedmont1984]

Someone posted yesterday that it's time to find your intestinal fortitude (Claxon?). Same goes for BF who votes against the PA out of fear. He avoids any fallout by claiming he just voted no. Easy way out. Politically expedient. Kinda like just voting no for the MOU and then saying 'hey, don't look at me'.

If you all want 100% security from the Nic then you delude yourselves. There are risks with either option. No guarantee we will prevail in D.C. court, or have enough time before decertification to see it through. If APA becomes our bargaining agent next week they will unilaterally appoint a west committee, then what? If we prevail in court what garrantee the APA won't resurrect the Nic, or the arbitrators won't take it upon themselves to revisit the issue?

I don't see a way around a west merger committee. Let them come to the table and cry poor mouth over the Nic. What we should do is make sure that our committee is staffed with the very best people going into this final fight. The current team are the ones who brought us this PA. Do you want them arguing your careers in front of an arbitration panel?

There is no perfect option. Either choice has risk. No security blankets going forward.

'84