2014 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

There is an APA Negotiating Committee Update, dated August 30th, on the APA website under the "Latest Updates" tab. It tells which sections of the Contract were discussed with the Company this week, and what progress was made.  Wouldn't it be nice if USAPA  posted similar factual updates in a timely manner?  I guess everything is always a secret at USAPA, and we, the members, don't have the need to know.

He pontificates with a 675 dollar tie in his closet.  AOL update lately.?

 

[westcoastflyer]

If you look at the APA website, you'll see that there is more timely and pertinent information available on their Public Website page, than USAPA chooses to mete out on it's Members' Only page; that's pretty pathetic.

 

[Claxon]

If you look at the APA website, you'll see that there is more timely and pertinent information available on their Public Website page, than USAPA chooses to mete out on it's Members' Only page; that's pretty pathetic.

Your 4 million dollar website, plus a 675 dollar tie, is available if you wish.
http://www.cactuspilot.com/

 

[Claxon]

Conventional Wisdom
Issued this 22nd day of July 2013:
 
 
 
10.i comes after 10.h
 
"The Memorandum of Understanding among American Airlines, US Airways,
APA, and USAPA, provides at Paragraph 10.i. that: “Nothing in this Paragraph 10 shall modify the decision of the arbitration panel in Letter of Agreement 12-05 of the 2012 CBA.” Accordingly, any subsequent agreement or arbitration with respect to integration of seniority or a collective bargaining agreement covering all pilots at any merged operation will not serve to modify the alternative guarantees and preferences awarded in this matter by the Panel."
 
"The request that the Panel direct that the TWA Pilots Committee and the AA Pilots Committee each be granted party status in any subsequent seniority integration process that may take place following the anticipated merger of AA and US Airways is rejected. Such request is arguably beyond the jurisdiction of the Panel and, in any event, no persuasive reasons have been shown in support of such a directive."
 
Issued this 22nd day of July 2013:
 
 
RICHARD I. BLOCH
STEPHEN B. GOLDBERG, Esq.
IRA F. JAFFE, Esq.
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/files/2013/07/Arbitration-decision-Supplement-CC-July-2013.pdf

Thoughts?

 

[Claxon]

"Accordingly, any subsequent agreement or arbitration...."
 
IMHO for TWA pilots, APA cutting off the MB ability to rearing its ugly head vs APA pilots.

 

[traderjake]

Very educated retort, obviously you have no clue about the relevance.  Just keep going with how you predicted the Nic.

 
Obviously you have no clue, period.
 
We're not dispatchers and our abiter's name was Nicolau, not Bloch.
 
Maybe you'll get lucky and Bloch will be on the next arbitration panel.
 
Predicting Nicolau's award was not hard, I just reasoned what was most fair, a feat you're incapable of.  

 

[EastUS1]

 
Obviously you have no clue, period.
 
We're not dispatchers and our abiter's name was Nicolau, not Bloch.
 
Maybe you'll get lucky and Bloch will be on the next arbitration panel.
 
Predicting Nicolau's award was not hard, I just reasoned what was most fair, a feat you're incapable of.  

 
"Predicting Nicolau's award was not hard, I just reasoned what was most fair,..." Yet in the same breath you observe that "Maybe you'll get lucky and Bloch will be on the next arbitration panel."...?  Ok, so how can your fantasy of knowing what's "fair" in arbitration to be other than properly ridiculed, given your direct implication that another arbitrator (Bloch) might well produce a result not to your liking? Would it even then be required by your supposed "honor" to blindly accept it?...Even while perceiving it as entirely not "fair" by your "reasoning"?  😉
 
"Maybe you'll get lucky and Bloch will be on the next arbitration panel." Blasphemy! You cannot now be at all even suggesting that individual arbitrators can differ, and that arbitration it's self isn't an instrument of the purest perfection...?

 

[Freighterguynow]

There is an arbitrated East West list. 
 
It's up to the MB arbitration panel if the choose to use it as part of their ruling.
 
You got your do over and 7 plus year fence so you should be happy.

There is an arbitrated list between the pilots at Republic and Frontier. What happened to that when a transaction between Frontier and Spirit occurred before the list was implemented?

Actually, Nicolau retains jurisdiction over his list. He will first have to agree, and provide a reason, why his list carries forward.

Then, the panel can decide - if they even bother to go there.

 

[end_of_alpa]

There is an arbitrated East West list. 
 
It's up to the MB arbitration panel if the choose to use it as part of their ruling.
 
You got your do over and 7 plus year fence so you should be happy.

No basis in fact or law. It is NOT up to the "arbitration panel" to choose what they wish to use or not use. They get what both sides present.

Of course, it's not a lie if you believe it!

 

[Freighterguynow]

No basis in fact or law. It is NOT up to the "arbitration panel" to choose what they wish to use or not use. They get what both sides present.
Of course, it's not a lie if you believe it!

Ok, I follow you there but the panel will have to decide the authority granted by the MOU right?

Does the MOU grant 3 merger parties? Does the panel have the authority to rule on disputes that predate the signing of the MOU?

Etc.

 

[Pi brat]

Trader, you are a trip. You never answered my original question. You stated that you didn't think an arbitration panel would turn it's back on Nicolau's work. If Bloch is on it, do you think he will turn his back on his? Any chance another arbitrator will see his work for the turd it is?

 

[nevergiveup]

 
Obviously you have no clue, period.
 
We're not dispatchers and our abiter's name was Nicolau, not Bloch.
 
Maybe you'll get lucky and Bloch will be on the next arbitration panel.
 
Predicting Nicolau's award was not hard, I just reasoned what was most fair, a feat you're incapable of.  

Had the NIC been fair it woul have been implemented, both side would have been unhappy, and the the west would not have been dancing in the streets!

 

[luvthe9]

The NIC is long over, it's a waste of time to even talk about it, In the mean time the APA is going to make sure we don't get any of there wide body flying, the westies I'm sure have this figured out that the APA could care less about them or us for that matter. If they have any desire to fly big planes quite a few of them could do so and are more then welcome to if you seniority can hold it or they could stay locked in PHX.

 

[FWAAA]

Had the NIC been fair it woul have been implemented, both side would have been unhappy, and the the west would not have been dancing in the streets!

Yeah, that's how arbitration works.   Both sides agree to arbitrate their dispute, and then only abide by the decision if the numerically larger group believes the result is "fair."
 
If that larger group doesn't believe it's "fair," it spends years and millions of dollars running away from the result to prevent its implementation.
 
On top of that, their refusal to abide by the arbitration to which they earlier agreed results in thousands of pilots  working for regional airline wages from 2005-2013, sacrificing a couple billion dollars in wages over those years and, in the process, helps to drag down wages at other airlines.
 
Wow.   Insist on Date of Hire, refuse to present anything at the arbitration other than the demand for Date of Hire, and then, when the result isn't Date of Hire, take a "heads we win, tales you lose" approach.   

 

[Claxon]

Yeah, that's how arbitration works.   Both sides agree to arbitrate their dispute, and then only abide by the decision if the numerically larger group believes the result is "fair."
 
If that larger group doesn't believe it's "fair," it spends years and millions of dollars running away from the result to prevent its implementation.
 
On top of that, their refusal to abide by the arbitration to which they earlier agreed results in thousands of pilots  working for regional airline wages from 2005-2013, sacrificing a couple billion dollars in wages over those years and, in the process, helps to drag down wages at other airlines.
 
Wow.   Insist on Date of Hire, refuse to present anything at the arbitration other than the demand for Date of Hire, and then, when the result isn't Date of Hire, take a "heads we win, tales you lose" approach.

And the parent unionALPA recognizes the award is unfair, and has the parties meet to remedy it, fully aware the alternative is to have the bargaining agent launched. And people like you too stupid to grasp the concept of a 17 yr un furloughed pilot going with a new hire is to be accepted as fair and reasonable.
Had it happened to you, I am sure you would have just sat there. Hypocrite.
Your treatment of TWA spawned the entire legislation.