2014 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Judge Silver was less than impressed with Szymanski's excuses concerning Hummel's condition.
 
 

CV-13-00471-PHX-ROS, October 23, 2013
 
MR. SZYMANSKI: Your Honor, first, before I go with
the next witness, I want to give you up of where we are with
the issue of Captain Hummel. We have not been able to get in
contact with Dr. Gleason who you spoke to earlier this week or
last week.
 
 


Excerpt:
THE COURT: All right. So our hearing with Dr.
 
Gleason was held on Thursday, October 17, at 1 and Dr. Gleason,
 
who is his surgeon, after some questions by me, said he did not
 
see why he could not participate in telephonic testimony before
 
this court. And I asked counsel to let me know -- and he also
 
said he was in stable condition. He was on a telemeter and
 
that he was not in critical condition. He was going to be
 
released he expected in the next couple of days. I ordered
 
counsel to inform me of circumstances where his health
 
depreciated where he was unstable, his status, that is his
 
health, had deteriorated to such an extent that he could not
 
participate in a hearing such as this.
 
So you know, as a footnote, in a criminal case that I
 
held on Monday, a defendant appeared after I determined that he
 
was competent to appear who was charged with very serious
 
offenses but was on dialysis and the hearing of course was
 
 
confrontational. However, he was able to appear.
 
And I heard also Mr. Szymanski said that --
 
You told me you learned this from somebody, that is
 
the opinion of Dr. Lambrou, on Sunday.
 
This hearing did not occur until Tuesday. I made
 
clear that if there has been change in circumstances, I was to
 
know. We could have perhaps made arrangements for me to talk
 
to the doctor at that time to make an appropriate determination
 
as to whether or not a communication in court over the phone
 
could be accomplished without causing deterioration or
 
instability of Mr. Hummel's condition. To merely say it's
 
stressful for him is not enough.
 
So either -- and the other aspect, too, is although I
 
have appreciation, having been there, that counsel, when a
 
deposition is taken of a party or a witness, the opposing party
 
doesn't always ask questions of that witness and perhaps you
 
didn't have reason to do so at the time because you didn't
 
anticipate that Mr. Hummel would have emergency surgery.
 
Nonetheless, that was your choice.
 
 
Hey Courtney, I saw you in court, you were out to lunch as always. You can read the transcript.
 
Regards,
SUCKONTHIS

 

[luvthe9]

Relax JJ. The APA will take their DFR to you just as sincerely and seriously as you considered it to the West pilots. There. Feel better now?

This is great lawsuits from all sides, takes years and years meanwhile AA and east keep moving up due to all that nice juicy attrition and the west rots in
PHX, seems to be the best scenario.

 

[Pi brat]

I've talked with Hummel on several occasions. He's is an OK guy in person. Do I trust him? No. Judge Silver made some observations that were accurate. It rhymes with the word, evasive.

Reminds me of some of the west guys I dealt with while trying to do the right thing about the C18 mess. You didn't really answer the question. Kirby could have made a liar out of Hummel in open court. That could have tipped the scales, if they were as close as the good judge said they were.

 

[Pi brat]

 
 
Dear Captain Prater:

After watching your video on the AAA-AWA Merger I now believe the best option for the AAA pilots to "throw ALPA off of both the AAA & AWA property". Jack Stephan's is a man of character and integrity and when he said, "I am disappointed with some of the miss-characterizations of our position as laid out by Captain Prater. I am even more upset with what was omitted with respect to our position regarding the Nicolau award. As I have repeatedly said, this is not just the case of the US Airways pilots not liking what they got. This is a case of our indignation over the fact that critical elements of ALPA Merger Policy were violated," well that is all I need!

After watching Captain Prater’s Video and listening to Captain Stephan’s chairman’s message I believe the best option for the entire pilot group to decertify ALPA.

At this point dumping ALPA will not only solve the Nicolau Award problem it could permit the East pilots to obtain a pay rasie and new contract sooner.

The benefits are:

1. Eliminate ALPA Merger Policy.
2. Gain control of a union for both the US Airways & America West pilots.
3. Permit the US Airways MEC to negotiate a pay raise outside of JNC talks.
4. Obtain a new comprehensive contract sooner once the Nicolau Award problem has been handled, otherwise, the only other option left is not agree to a JNC TA.

I believe the major benefit if this approach is that the East pilots will dominate future negotiations and create its own de-facto fences. One area to watch out for is an immediate effort to get a JNC TA by the AWA MEC and Doug parker before the East pilots get a chance to oust ALPA -- that's Parker's only move

Again, I believe the best option for the US Airways pilots is to kick ALPA off of both the US Airways and America West properties. Dump ALPA Now! Let the process begin.

For more information click here.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
 
Posted 24 June 2007 - 08:47 AM
 

Your quotes are better than mine!

 

[electricjet98]

Mach85ER,
No one can "excuse" Mr. Dale for his behavior...we've learned to just laugh at his alcohol induced rants stemming from a less-than stellar career.  You'll see a few others like him; Claxon, end-of-alpa (Jamie Javorek), luvthe9, mrbreeze (Jerry L)and a few others.  I'll admit that we have a few on the west also...but no one quite at the bottom-of-the-gutter muck level as EastUS, who has absolutely nothing of any intelligence to add to the discussion.

 

[electricjet98]

Damn brother! That was powerful! I'm gonna forward this if you don't mind...
 
Don't worry, I won't preface it as a "bright pilot" said... lol. But I think it IS true in this case... 🙂

I doubt that it was an original "luvthe9" piece...more like chest-pounding Bill Glynn. Unless...they are one and the same?

 

[snapthis]

Reminds me of some of the west guys I dealt with while trying to do the right thing about the C18 mess. You didn't really answer the question. Kirby could have made a liar out of Hummel in open court. That could have tipped the scales, if they were as close as the good judge said they were.

It reminds me of sitting through 2 trials where lies were exposed.

 

[snapthis]

This is great lawsuits from all sides, takes years and years meanwhile AA and east keep moving up due to all that nice juicy attrition and the west rots in
PHX, seems to be the best scenario.

Once again, blah, blah, blah

Too bad you won't be in any position other than holding your tin can for donations because you will not be allowed to use funds which belong to our union once USAPA is decertified.

I'm enjoying watching your meltdown. It's been long awaited. Ha!

 

[snapthis]

Hey 9...

Here's two really big words for you and Jamie to chew on besides pizza.

Marginalized

And

Irrelevant

and for lease

 

[Metroyet]

My question is this: is USAPA really going to embarrass itself and attempt a "show of interest" drive after SCS? Mature, normal people wouldn't dare...which means USTUPID will waste 5 million dollars on a delusional, hyperbolic campaign to nowhere.

 

[electricjet98]

This week, we got our answer from the APA on how they plan to conduct the SLI negotiations going into the future. We have seen this all before. As with Jerry Glass where each agreement was worse than the one before. We are also aware of the tactics trying to divide and conquer that won't work if we recognize the tactics. So where do we go from here?

The first thing you have to remember about all of this is that the APA is deathly afraid of going into McCaskill-Bond and they have done everything possible to keep from going there. The latest is this "message" to the US Airways pilots to tell us that USAPA is lying and they are telling the truth. Right. They claim that they had agreement that we would NOT go into McCaskill-Bond. There was never any agreement There was some ambiguous language on the time line in the MOU but never an agreement that would give up our rights to an arbitrated settlement via McCaskill-Bond.

Any degree of "fear" is vastly overstated. We accepted in the MOU an improved alternative to a strict M-B process...I believe it was termed a M-B "like" process...or something similar.

The second large lie is that we agreed to a west representation on the seniority integration board. That would be paramount to handing over all we have fought for these 8 years and give a group that has special interest a seat at the table they have no legal right to. Notice there is no call by the APA to have the TWA pilots at that table!

APA nor USAPA is obligated to allow a west committee. But any CBA that wishes to remain free of DFR charges after the SLI is complete knows that the west must be allowed to participate before the SLI is complete. The fact that USAPA fails to realize this is the cause of its ineffectiveness and lack of any credibility.

The third of a long list of lies is that Judge Silver's remarks are NOT dicta but is the rule of law. That one statement more than any other should indicate just how far they are willing to go to lie. Ask any lawyer, they will explain that dicta is opinion and nothing but an opinion. There is no ruling based on opinion. She could have said in her dicta that USAPA is the greatest union in history and that President Obama is the greatest President in history....BUT, it is her opinion not a ruling and hence has nothing to do with SLI or McCaskill-Bond. If you read her decision, everything before the words "It is so ordered" is opinion. Everything after that is her order. Leonidas needs money. The APA is trying to add fear and confusion.

I'm sure the Federal District Judge's "opinion" will have no sway with other courts...we'll let them decide what weight it should be assigned.

The whole purpose of that letter was to sway opinion and scare US Airways pilots and especially our officers into giving up our protections under McCaskill-Bond. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing this letter did was solidify my belief that they are terrified to go to M-B arbitration.

See above.

I found their Protocol Proposal interesting from several stand points. The first is that they really never had any intention of negotiating with us for a fair and equitable SLI. All the handshaking and congratulations on forming a "blended family" between the US Airways Pilots and the American Pilots was a ruse. The truth is, that underlying all the smiles and handshakes and promises lies the greedy, self-interested, arrogant pilot group they have always been. The nic-name "Sky Nazis" was well earned throughout their history.

You're wrong...everyone knows how a divided pilot group is detrimental to the goals of our pilots as a group. What APA was unaware of is the level of deceit that exists within USAPA.

The second thing I learned is that their Merger Committee are devious liars. In their 'Update' to their pilots issued at the same time they sent us their latest Protocol Proposal, they claimed they had met all of our concerns while really meeting none of them. That tells me several things. One, they are afraid to tell their pilot group the truth because of the ramifications they may suffer if their line pilots know the truth and two, that they believe by going to the pilots with a lie, they can sway them before the truth comes out! They are actually more dangerous to their own pilots than to us. This latest attempt to publicly sway US Airways pilots is aimed at our weakest pilots who believe we need to bend over.

Will this be the excuse for more of you "Pink-undie" awards?

I have a suggestion that I don't believe the APA will accept. Since the Protocol Proposals are no longer secret thanks to the APA, we should publicly propose that each side get the opportunity to write a letter to the opposing pilot group explaining its position vi's a vi's, McCaskill-Bond. The Pilots from USAPA should be able to present their arguments in print for the American Line-Pilot to read and visa-versa from the APA. If the APA is truly interested in the truth, they will jump at the opportunity to present their arguments to the US Airways Line-Pilots.

What more public way can there be for everyone to see where each of us stands and who is telling the truth and who is not. Do I believe they will go for it? No. They are showing a devious side we had hoped to avoid. But now that they have, the gloves need to come off here. When you fight someone much bigger, it is wise to fight with everything you have or you will get beaten. Gary Hummel should pull no punches in explaining what has happened in an open letter. Stop all SLI Negotiations. At this point, they are pointless until they agree to M-B. Next, continue to pursue the law suit we have in Federal Court for McCaskill Bond. Before he left office, former USAPA President Mike Cleary's put together the best legal team in the industry. Let them loose!

Don't look now, but Hummel has already posted the white flag.

 

[electricjet98]

American pilots have shown in the past they have no respect for other company's pilots or the pilot profession in general. They are the sole reason for McCaskill-Bond. There can only be one reason they are so afraid of an SLI based on M-B and that is because they have a plan that would destroy the careers of every US Airways pilot - east or west. M-B would stop that plan from becoming reality. Watch what they do, not what they say. No M-B puts them in charge of our lives and seniority. They claim we can sue for DFR if they aren't fair. Well, we have seen how that goes.

Sole reason for McCaskill-Bond? Maybe you should study your history of the AMR-TWA merger...particularily the F/A's.

As an example of what I mean. I was recently told by a BPR Member that during one of the first meetings between our side and the APA, APA Negotiating Committee member Drew Engelke pointedly told our people that we should be thankful for what American did for us, that we worked for a 'low-life' company and that we should be 'grateful' for anything they [APA] feel compelled to give us. That is how they think and that is what they will do.

Yeah, the least they could have done was come-up with something original. Stealing from USAPA's playbook for the AWA/AAA merger is really low!

One other item I found interesting in all of this is the willingness of the APA to join forces with management to fight another union. Explaining to them the ramifications of this for the future of a merged pilot group seems to have no effect on their leaders. As sure as the sun coming up tomorrow, there will be a time when Parker and company resort to old habits of balancing the books on the backs of their employees. That may come sooner than later looking at the situation in the world. At that point, the APA will ask it's members, new and old to stand together. It should be explained now that if they attempt to take our seniority away from us, there can NEVER be unity and they will be the biggest losers and the company wins.

At the present time, the company, the Army of Leonidas and the APA are using each other for their gain. The company needs a placid employee group to finish this merger but is planting the seeds of future disunity. Leonidas is hoping for a 'hail Mary' pass through intimidation to get the APA to include them at the table. The American pilots need the company to steal our seniority. As soon as this merger is far enough along, look out. The real purpose of all this will rear it's ugly head. I know the American pilots believe that Parker is now playing in the 'big league,' and wouldn't dare cross them, as I have heard repeatedly from them, but they are delusional and have short memories. They almost bankrupt themselves when they tried a small work stoppage years ago and the benign management of that time went into court and won a huge settlement against them. Only by giving up a substantial amount of money did they save themselves from total ruin. Now, they have a much stronger, much more determined management group to contend with and it is they that is now playing in the 'big league.'

LOL...I guess APA should be taking lessons from USAPA regarding how to conduct business now that they are in the "Bigs"?

Of course the APA wants to let the West have a seat. They can have all the seats they want if they are placed junior to all the American pilots. It would be just a matter of time before the APA would turn on them, but it will be too late if we give up the M-B protections.

If you feel surrounded on all sides by 'enemies' and that we are doomed, fear not. We have a great deal of case law on our side. On the west, we have seen the results of standing for our rights. The Nic is dead no matter what Chip Munn and the Army of Leonidas tell their people to try to rally the troops for more donations. With the company, we have a contract and an MOU that helps secure our rights. On the American front, we have McCaskill-Bond. It's a shame we are forced into this situation, but we have been told over and over we can't win only to see that we have won and will continue to win if we stand firm and united. The company can divide us from the west and the APA, but unless we let them they cannot divide this pilot group.

One more item and this is for the so called 'third listers.' What happens in the fights between the Company, the Army of Leonidas and the APA and USAPA concern you as much as it concerns those of us that have been here for a long time. In any merger, the past mergers are used as a template to shape future mergers. If you are treated unfairly in this merger because the west can or the APA can, it will follow you for the rest of your career. This fight is also about your future. You need to stay informed through USAPA update, attend union meetings or even through web sites like this and voice your opinions when you think it's necessary. At some point in the future, you may be asked to stand up for yourself, so you had better know the facts to make intelligent decisions.

So how does west participation endanger third-listers...are thrd-listers now being told they have the right to go ahead of west pilots on the final SLI?

There is one thing that we should all be aware of and that is time. We have it on our side. The APA claims that the real reason they want us to give up our protections on M-B is that we are delaying joint contract negotiations. We know from history that Parker will drag out those negotiations for years. That argument is a ruse designed to scare us. In fact, if we become the APA, we will have zero input into those negotiations. Instead, the longer this merger takes the more we grow and the more we move up.

Make-up your mind. First you proclaim time is on your side...then you deny APA's claim that you are trying to capitalize on and extend that time...then you blame Parker for extending the time that you proclaim to be to your advantage...then you again proclaim to have an advantage with that time. I give-up trying to make any sense of that argument!

The APA has shown it's willingness to "TWA" all of us for no other reason than greed based on their belief that 'they saved us' and are entitled to our jobs because we are not legacy American Pilots. They feel we bring nothing to this merger and we are just lucky to have joined their illustrious group. You will also never be treated as an equal unless we win this fight.

Chip Munn refers to anyone that stands up for themselves as "Hard Liners." So be it. If not bending over and grabbing our ankles when someone tells us to means we are hard-liners, I accept the title with honor. We didn't start this fight and it's a shame that we are at this point, but we are not TWA and we were not the ones in bankruptcy....American was. Keep that in mind when you read their reasons for this fight. We have beaten greater odds than this before and will again.

Yeah...gotta be Bill Glynn. Too long-winded and too arrogant for most others.

 

[snapthis]

My question is this: is USAPA really going to embarrass itself and attempt a "show of interest" drive after SCS? Mature, normal people wouldn't dare...which means USTUPID will waste 5 million dollars on a delusional, hyperbolic campaign to nowhere.

Excuse me while I borrow your tag line.

USAPA: "Embarrassing the Pilot Profession one Disaster at a time"

Looking forward to another embarrassing update. Good thing they don't speak for me.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The MOU succinctly describes when JCBA talks begin: upon SCS. APA's JCBA Update, which excludes any indication USAPA will participate in the process. Furthermore, I take this update as a direct message the APA and AAG believe the NMB will make its SCS determination before July 8, 2014.

MOU, paragraph 5 states, "Subject to the provisions of Paragraph 27, negotiations to convert this Memorandum into the JCBA and any implementation or other interim agreement, if any, shall be conducted with USAPA and APA jointly, until such time as one union is certified by the NMB to be the collective bargaining representative of the combined pilot craft or class. At this time, the duly-certified representative shall have exclusive authority to negotiate on behalf of the pilots with respect to the JCBA." 

I wonder if USAPA considers the MOU language above just a proposal or if they will file another lawsuit to overturn the contract's language because their days where they consider them self relevant dwindle?

Meanwhile, it is very clear APA intends to take US out of USAPA or USAPA - US = APA. Why? USAPA's "misrepresentations contained in the USAPA Merger Committee (update)"; as well as USAPA's NMB single arbitrator request that violates the pilot's contract, USAPA's M-B Injunction suit that violates the pilot's contract, and the BPR's overall approach has backfired (again), which appears to have cost USAPA a meaningful seat at the JCBA table.

Maybe USAPA's leaders can fill out a Dominos Pizza delivery boy application and use its two leased vehicles to serve lunch to Company and APA negotiators so they can over hear some of the discussions.

 

[snapthis]

"Maybe USAPA's leaders can fill out a Dominos Pizza delivery boy application and use its two leased vehicles to serve lunch to Company and APA negotiators so they can over hear some of the discussions."

I know the right boy for the job. Hey Courtney, put down the burger and get to work.