2014 Pilot Discussion
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USA320Pilot
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This post is a little long because of USAPA’s actions, but the pilot's current situation was so predictable because USAPA continues to play chess with checkers. And, I take no solace in being right (again), but if USAPA’s circus was not so sad the union’s actions would make a great comic book instead of a sad story that I believe has and continues to harm all of AAG and LCC’s stakeholders.
During the past week or so USAPA has sustained 3 significant loses and took 2 major steps backwards. The union lost its PIC lawsuit appeal, the union lost its appeal on the 3% grievance court decision, and the union lost its request to have the Permanent Injunction lifted because the union was found guilty of conducting an illegal job action. Then APA began to publicly negotiate with the US Airways pilots with their website announcement of their new draft PA counterproposal followed by the NMB’s CWA/IBT SCC determination. Now it appears the NMB will likely rubber stamp its CWA/IBT SCC determination for the pilots in the not-too-distant future regardless of USAPA’s objections in its desperate attempt to remain relevant.
It’s clear to me that AAG and APA keep outsmarting USAPA’s legal team, a legal team the BPR curiously seems to have supreme confidence in, that unlike ALPA’s salaried legal advisors, and are attorneys who are making a killing by taking actions that the BPR desires, regardless of if it helps the pilots or not.
Throughout USAPA’s existence I believe the East BPR Reps, current and those who served before, are virtually all Demagogues. The UEL or Hardliner Demagogues use Demagoguery to control the pilot group, maintain, power, stroke their egos, and focus on an ease of life on FPL, which time and time again has harmed the membership.
For those knew to Demagoguery in politics Demagogues are rabble rousers who are “political leaders in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, fears, prejudices, and ignorance of the lower classes in order to gain power and promote political motives. Demagogues usually oppose deliberation and advocate immediate, violent action to address a national crisis; they accuse moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness. Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, nothing stops the people from giving that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.”
In my opinion, the East Hardline or Darksider, who largely ran ALPA and now run USAPA, regularly use Demagoguery by closing meetings, hiding their intentions from the pilots, and then publishing misleading communications such as today’s Merger Committee Update. Furthermore, they use this approach so they never have to accept responsibility for their damaging actions.
Clearly, APA and AAG understand the BPR’s sentiment and characteristics, which is why I believe Neil Roghair met with the CLT pilots earlier this week and APA released their Draft PA update on their website. Why? APA wants to negotiate directly with the US Airways pilots in light of USAPA’s multiple legal loses last week, USAPA’s relentless effort to virtually staple the West pilots to the bottom of a USAPA’s proposed SL, and the NMB’s CWA/IBT SCC decision. Why? USAPA’s DFR/ISL process arguments in two different federal courts creates an unsupportable argument and is a judicial estoppel violation.
Meanwhile, I believe APA views USAPA as irrelevant. In USAPA’s MC update the union said, “This week’s APA proposal came to us unannounced, with no prior communication to our Merger Counsel. Needless to say, we were surprised to see the APA’s proposal, given APA's recent refusal to negotiate, and after we were told there would be no counterproposal. Contrary to what you may have heard from APA communications, this APA Protocol Agreement proposal does not incorporate the compromises we offered back on April 29. In fact, the APA proposal rejects virtually every item we included in our April 29 proposal, which protected your McCaskill-Bond rights, while also resolving the impasse in the negotiations.”
I wonder why USAPA gets no respect by AAG and APA? Could it be that USAPA is the Rodney Dangerfield of airline unions? Me thinks so…
With yesterday’s news that that NMB found in the CWA/IBT case that “The Board finds that American and US Airways are operating as a single transportation system for representation purposes under the RLA.” Clearly, it’s only a matter of time when the NMB makes the same determination regarding the pilots at which time Judge Silver unequivocally ruled USAPA must cease all M-B ISL work post SCC.
Now, instead of agreeing to APA’s previous draft PA made public by AAG in their Addington II DFR Motion to Reconsider – USAPA now faces the risk of APA deciding the ISL process because USAPA seems to only focus on the SLI of 5,000 versus 15,000 pilots.
I’s evident the NMB understands USAPA’s shenanigans when in the CWA/IBT SCC determination the feds highlighted the pilot’s plight and telegraphed where the pilots are headed. The NMB said, “The Pilot MTA, among the Carriers and the two unions representing the Pilots of the respective airlines, contains the common terms and conditions of employment that are already applicable to both Pilot groups. The MTA, which became effective on December 9, 2013, consists of the 2012 pre-merger American Pilot CBA, as amended by and pursuant to the provisions of a Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“Pilot MOU”). Absent agreement to, or ratification of, a Joint CBA (“JCBA”) within a specified limited time-frame, the Pilot MOU provides that the terms of the Pilot JCBA will be imposed through “final and binding” interest arbitration. Because of limits on the interest arbitrator’s jurisdiction contained in the Pilot MOU, the material post-merger terms and conditions of employment for the legacy US Airways and American Pilots have already been established. The Pilot MOU also prescribes that the Pilot seniority-integration negotiation and arbitration process, pursuant to the McCaskill-Bond statute and the Pilot MOU, shall begin “as soon as possible” after the close of the merger and must conclude no later than 24 months after the December 9, 2013 merger effective date, including a final and binding arbitration if necessary.”
To further show how the Demagogues were outsmarted is the MOU/MTA requirement that the M-B ISL arbitration will not begin until a JCBA is reached. It does not take a Bachelor’s Degree in Rocket Science to see the APA and AAG will not reach a JCBA until after SCC, which as one bright pilot said, “(is a) sure fire way to eliminate the group that still insists on a real DFR violation in the hopes it can get away with it.”
In conclusion, I believe the MTA #5 arbitration once ordered by Judge Howell and the M-B Injunction suit will find the same result as the NMB’s CWA/IBT determination. And, I agree with another bright pilot who said, “The West will get their own committee when it is all said and done. The West wants it, the company wants it, and the APA wants it ... the only people who don't want it are USAPA, and any neutral onlooker will see that that desire to exclude the west is driven by agenda.”
Finally, I find it ironic that the West pilot’s and their very real DFR threat has saved USAPA and the East pilot’s bacon following Judge Silver’s Addington II DFR ruling regarding USAPA’s role post SCC. Without the well-organized AOL group providing DFR cover for all US Airways pilots -- USAPA could have created a USAPA Pyrrhic victory.
However, based on history both AAG and APA will create a 3/4-way M-B ISL arbitration, if held, with separate antonymous/funded MC’s that will ensure a F&E process with a seniority list that could end up like the Nicolau Award with widebody restrictions (relative seniority with C&Rs).
With a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.
During the past week or so USAPA has sustained 3 significant loses and took 2 major steps backwards. The union lost its PIC lawsuit appeal, the union lost its appeal on the 3% grievance court decision, and the union lost its request to have the Permanent Injunction lifted because the union was found guilty of conducting an illegal job action. Then APA began to publicly negotiate with the US Airways pilots with their website announcement of their new draft PA counterproposal followed by the NMB’s CWA/IBT SCC determination. Now it appears the NMB will likely rubber stamp its CWA/IBT SCC determination for the pilots in the not-too-distant future regardless of USAPA’s objections in its desperate attempt to remain relevant.
It’s clear to me that AAG and APA keep outsmarting USAPA’s legal team, a legal team the BPR curiously seems to have supreme confidence in, that unlike ALPA’s salaried legal advisors, and are attorneys who are making a killing by taking actions that the BPR desires, regardless of if it helps the pilots or not.
Throughout USAPA’s existence I believe the East BPR Reps, current and those who served before, are virtually all Demagogues. The UEL or Hardliner Demagogues use Demagoguery to control the pilot group, maintain, power, stroke their egos, and focus on an ease of life on FPL, which time and time again has harmed the membership.
For those knew to Demagoguery in politics Demagogues are rabble rousers who are “political leaders in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, fears, prejudices, and ignorance of the lower classes in order to gain power and promote political motives. Demagogues usually oppose deliberation and advocate immediate, violent action to address a national crisis; they accuse moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness. Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, nothing stops the people from giving that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.”
In my opinion, the East Hardline or Darksider, who largely ran ALPA and now run USAPA, regularly use Demagoguery by closing meetings, hiding their intentions from the pilots, and then publishing misleading communications such as today’s Merger Committee Update. Furthermore, they use this approach so they never have to accept responsibility for their damaging actions.
Clearly, APA and AAG understand the BPR’s sentiment and characteristics, which is why I believe Neil Roghair met with the CLT pilots earlier this week and APA released their Draft PA update on their website. Why? APA wants to negotiate directly with the US Airways pilots in light of USAPA’s multiple legal loses last week, USAPA’s relentless effort to virtually staple the West pilots to the bottom of a USAPA’s proposed SL, and the NMB’s CWA/IBT SCC decision. Why? USAPA’s DFR/ISL process arguments in two different federal courts creates an unsupportable argument and is a judicial estoppel violation.
Meanwhile, I believe APA views USAPA as irrelevant. In USAPA’s MC update the union said, “This week’s APA proposal came to us unannounced, with no prior communication to our Merger Counsel. Needless to say, we were surprised to see the APA’s proposal, given APA's recent refusal to negotiate, and after we were told there would be no counterproposal. Contrary to what you may have heard from APA communications, this APA Protocol Agreement proposal does not incorporate the compromises we offered back on April 29. In fact, the APA proposal rejects virtually every item we included in our April 29 proposal, which protected your McCaskill-Bond rights, while also resolving the impasse in the negotiations.”
I wonder why USAPA gets no respect by AAG and APA? Could it be that USAPA is the Rodney Dangerfield of airline unions? Me thinks so…
With yesterday’s news that that NMB found in the CWA/IBT case that “The Board finds that American and US Airways are operating as a single transportation system for representation purposes under the RLA.” Clearly, it’s only a matter of time when the NMB makes the same determination regarding the pilots at which time Judge Silver unequivocally ruled USAPA must cease all M-B ISL work post SCC.
Now, instead of agreeing to APA’s previous draft PA made public by AAG in their Addington II DFR Motion to Reconsider – USAPA now faces the risk of APA deciding the ISL process because USAPA seems to only focus on the SLI of 5,000 versus 15,000 pilots.
I’s evident the NMB understands USAPA’s shenanigans when in the CWA/IBT SCC determination the feds highlighted the pilot’s plight and telegraphed where the pilots are headed. The NMB said, “The Pilot MTA, among the Carriers and the two unions representing the Pilots of the respective airlines, contains the common terms and conditions of employment that are already applicable to both Pilot groups. The MTA, which became effective on December 9, 2013, consists of the 2012 pre-merger American Pilot CBA, as amended by and pursuant to the provisions of a Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“Pilot MOU”). Absent agreement to, or ratification of, a Joint CBA (“JCBA”) within a specified limited time-frame, the Pilot MOU provides that the terms of the Pilot JCBA will be imposed through “final and binding” interest arbitration. Because of limits on the interest arbitrator’s jurisdiction contained in the Pilot MOU, the material post-merger terms and conditions of employment for the legacy US Airways and American Pilots have already been established. The Pilot MOU also prescribes that the Pilot seniority-integration negotiation and arbitration process, pursuant to the McCaskill-Bond statute and the Pilot MOU, shall begin “as soon as possible” after the close of the merger and must conclude no later than 24 months after the December 9, 2013 merger effective date, including a final and binding arbitration if necessary.”
To further show how the Demagogues were outsmarted is the MOU/MTA requirement that the M-B ISL arbitration will not begin until a JCBA is reached. It does not take a Bachelor’s Degree in Rocket Science to see the APA and AAG will not reach a JCBA until after SCC, which as one bright pilot said, “(is a) sure fire way to eliminate the group that still insists on a real DFR violation in the hopes it can get away with it.”
In conclusion, I believe the MTA #5 arbitration once ordered by Judge Howell and the M-B Injunction suit will find the same result as the NMB’s CWA/IBT determination. And, I agree with another bright pilot who said, “The West will get their own committee when it is all said and done. The West wants it, the company wants it, and the APA wants it ... the only people who don't want it are USAPA, and any neutral onlooker will see that that desire to exclude the west is driven by agenda.”
Finally, I find it ironic that the West pilot’s and their very real DFR threat has saved USAPA and the East pilot’s bacon following Judge Silver’s Addington II DFR ruling regarding USAPA’s role post SCC. Without the well-organized AOL group providing DFR cover for all US Airways pilots -- USAPA could have created a USAPA Pyrrhic victory.
However, based on history both AAG and APA will create a 3/4-way M-B ISL arbitration, if held, with separate antonymous/funded MC’s that will ensure a F&E process with a seniority list that could end up like the Nicolau Award with widebody restrictions (relative seniority with C&Rs).
With a NMB SCC pilot determination/District Court decisions pending I further believe things are going to heat up and the pilots will immediately obtain a 1.45% net pay increase in short-order.
traderjake
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luvthe9 said:
..............."found on the internet".............unsigned.....................
Freighterguynow
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This post is a little long because of USAPAs actions, but the pilot's current situation was so predictable because USAPA continues to play chess with checkers. And, I take no solace in being right (again)
Posts get a bit long when the game is chess or checkers, and you are at the tiddly winks level.USA320Pilot said:
Everything that you post, Chip, is about you and just how smart you think you are. You just like to see yourself in type. Your belief that you have a 140 IQ is way off.....more like an 80. Go back, just in the last month, and read your posts with the open mind of just how many times you use the words, "I, in my opinion, I believe, I was right, etc. Your posts are not about substance......they are only about you and your misplaced ego.
breeze
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mrbreeze said:
Amen, Brother!
USA320Pilot
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What's an interesting display of UEL and hardcore USAPAian psychology is how the union's supporters attack the messenger versus the message. Why? They USAPAians cannot dispute the message or the facts.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger.
Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:
1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory:
2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.
3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
It's truly a sad state, but interesting nonetheless, because the USAPAians and their supporters fear the messenger.
Moving forward there are 3 compelling points:
1. USAPA has brought on the Pyrrhic victory:
2. USAPA = Judicial Estoppel, which = Pyrrhic Victory or a UJEPV.
3. At least we know APA is taking US out of USAPA. Or APA = USAPA minus US.
USA320Pilot said:
That's because when your "facts" are challenged (or even just questioned) or it is pointed out with legal references how your message is not true, you will not reply. I have directly challenged your message (not you personally) on several occasions, and you refuse to respond... That says a lot about the messenger Chip... So that's why my reply here is short, because if I took the time to question your comments and provide legal references that go against your "message" you will not reply. So i'm not going to waste my time to try to debate the facts if you won't engage...
USA320Pilot
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USAPA Pension Investigation Committee Update: June 20, 2014
Today, June 20, 2014, 16 months after the February 2013 trial, Judge Frederic Scullin issued a decision in favor of the PBGC, and dismissed our claim that the PBGC breached its fiduciary duties as the statutory trustee of our failed pension plan. A copy of the Decision and Order can be found here and in the Legal Library under USAPA v. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC).
Judge Scullin based his decision on a finding that the PBGC “made all reasonable attempts to investigate the financial affairs of the Plan to identify any possible fiduciary breaches and thoroughly investigated any claims that were brought to its attention.” (Decision, page 17). We disagree with the Judge’s conclusions, and with the BPR's approval, intend to appeal his decision.
Judge Scullin’s decision is remarkably short given the size of the factual record, and fails to address a number of legal issues that were raised during the case. That said, we are pleased the judge largely adopted our position concerning the legal duties the PBGC undertakes when it volunteers to serve as trustee of a terminated pension plan, including the duty to investigate potential claims on behalf of the plan and, “if in the best interests of the plan participants, to bring suit.” (Decision, pages 4-5).
Despite having largely adopted our formulation of the legal standards that apply, the judge held that the PBGC satisfied its fiduciary duties under the facts of our case. Specifically, the judge held that through the original PBGC’s initial plan asset audit, and then through a subsequent investigation conducted by a staff attorney at PBGC, and finally through a second plan asset audit conducted by an outside accounting firm, the PBGC had fulfilled its statutory duty to investigate the financial affairs of the failed Pilots Plan. In reaching that conclusion, the judge ignored the PBGC Inspector General’s findings regarding the inadequacies of the agency’s plan asset audit process, and the PBGC’s subsequent steps to address those inadequacies, and didn’t even reference those significant facts in the decision. The opinion also fails to address the findings of the PBGC’s own experts in the US Airways bankruptcy proceeding, which identified some of the reasons for the plan’s failure, and the potential claims arising from those failures. These were all part of the evidence we presented at trial.
Again, with the BPR's approval, we intend to appeal the decision. Our appeal will likely focus on the significant portions of the trial record that are ignored in the decision, including key admissions by the PBGC, the PBGC’s Inspector General, and PBGC experts in the US Airways bankruptcy proceeding, as well as a challenge to the Court’s dismissal of several factual issues without adequate support in the record.
The briefing schedule for the appeal will be established by the Court of Appeals, but the opening brief is not likely to be due for several months.
The Pension Investigation Committee.
USA320Pilot comments: I told you so (again). At least there are some things to look forward to -- SCC, a 1.45% pilot net pay increase, and a union who does not sue everybody in sight and then when the union loses more wasted money spent on fruitless appeals. Question. Do USAPA and their supporters ever get tired of losing over-and-over again?
Today, June 20, 2014, 16 months after the February 2013 trial, Judge Frederic Scullin issued a decision in favor of the PBGC, and dismissed our claim that the PBGC breached its fiduciary duties as the statutory trustee of our failed pension plan. A copy of the Decision and Order can be found here and in the Legal Library under USAPA v. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC).
Judge Scullin based his decision on a finding that the PBGC “made all reasonable attempts to investigate the financial affairs of the Plan to identify any possible fiduciary breaches and thoroughly investigated any claims that were brought to its attention.” (Decision, page 17). We disagree with the Judge’s conclusions, and with the BPR's approval, intend to appeal his decision.
Judge Scullin’s decision is remarkably short given the size of the factual record, and fails to address a number of legal issues that were raised during the case. That said, we are pleased the judge largely adopted our position concerning the legal duties the PBGC undertakes when it volunteers to serve as trustee of a terminated pension plan, including the duty to investigate potential claims on behalf of the plan and, “if in the best interests of the plan participants, to bring suit.” (Decision, pages 4-5).
Despite having largely adopted our formulation of the legal standards that apply, the judge held that the PBGC satisfied its fiduciary duties under the facts of our case. Specifically, the judge held that through the original PBGC’s initial plan asset audit, and then through a subsequent investigation conducted by a staff attorney at PBGC, and finally through a second plan asset audit conducted by an outside accounting firm, the PBGC had fulfilled its statutory duty to investigate the financial affairs of the failed Pilots Plan. In reaching that conclusion, the judge ignored the PBGC Inspector General’s findings regarding the inadequacies of the agency’s plan asset audit process, and the PBGC’s subsequent steps to address those inadequacies, and didn’t even reference those significant facts in the decision. The opinion also fails to address the findings of the PBGC’s own experts in the US Airways bankruptcy proceeding, which identified some of the reasons for the plan’s failure, and the potential claims arising from those failures. These were all part of the evidence we presented at trial.
Again, with the BPR's approval, we intend to appeal the decision. Our appeal will likely focus on the significant portions of the trial record that are ignored in the decision, including key admissions by the PBGC, the PBGC’s Inspector General, and PBGC experts in the US Airways bankruptcy proceeding, as well as a challenge to the Court’s dismissal of several factual issues without adequate support in the record.
The briefing schedule for the appeal will be established by the Court of Appeals, but the opening brief is not likely to be due for several months.
The Pension Investigation Committee.
USA320Pilot comments: I told you so (again). At least there are some things to look forward to -- SCC, a 1.45% pilot net pay increase, and a union who does not sue everybody in sight and then when the union loses more wasted money spent on fruitless appeals. Question. Do USAPA and their supporters ever get tired of losing over-and-over again?
USA320Pilot
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NMB Grants Single Carrier Petition for US Airways Passenger Service Employees
FT. WORTH (APFA Update) - Yesterday, the National Mediation Board (NMB) acted on a petition by CWA, the union representing the passenger service employees at US Airways. It found that there has been substantial integration of American’s and US Airways’ operations, financial control and labor and personnel functions, and, therefore, that the two carriers are operating as a “single transportation system” (single carrier) for purposes of representation.
Although this ruling applies only to passenger service employees, it paves the way for the NMB to find that American and US Airways also are a single carrier as to the craft and class of Flight Attendants. As you will recall, APFA and AFA jointly filed our single carrier petition on June 9, and today, the companies made a submission to the NMB that not only agrees that American and US Airways are a single carrier, but also states the companies’ willingness to voluntarily recognize APFA as the representative of the combined flight attendant workgroup.
We are hopeful that the NMB’s single carrier ruling yesterday and the AA/US submission today will expedite the NMB’s single-carrier ruling on our petition and the extension of our certification as the representative of all flight attendants at the new American.
FT. WORTH (APFA Update) - Yesterday, the National Mediation Board (NMB) acted on a petition by CWA, the union representing the passenger service employees at US Airways. It found that there has been substantial integration of American’s and US Airways’ operations, financial control and labor and personnel functions, and, therefore, that the two carriers are operating as a “single transportation system” (single carrier) for purposes of representation.
Although this ruling applies only to passenger service employees, it paves the way for the NMB to find that American and US Airways also are a single carrier as to the craft and class of Flight Attendants. As you will recall, APFA and AFA jointly filed our single carrier petition on June 9, and today, the companies made a submission to the NMB that not only agrees that American and US Airways are a single carrier, but also states the companies’ willingness to voluntarily recognize APFA as the representative of the combined flight attendant workgroup.
We are hopeful that the NMB’s single carrier ruling yesterday and the AA/US submission today will expedite the NMB’s single-carrier ruling on our petition and the extension of our certification as the representative of all flight attendants at the new American.
luvthe9
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I'm still waiting to here what Munn's " sources" are saying about the UAL merger. He is by far the biggest village idiot of our airline along with Traitor.algflyr said:
Subject: U-Turn: U-Turn reader replies to Captain Chip Munn
Weve heard from Captain Munn before. He currently runs his own Pro-ALPA PilotAction website. Now he hypes an anonymous site of questionable facts. Wherever he sees an audience, he jumps on the latest cause. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with his. We have learned that when Captain Munn is involved, be very afraid, if hes on your side of the issue.
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