2014 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

"98% yes vote in PHX. For a " horrible" MOU" Yeah, now there's some truly great minds in action. Don't forget that they immediately filed a frivolous suit against the MOU after voting 98% in favor of it. An average collection of house plants would likely boast a higher aggregate IQ.
 
Expect the bulk of the PHX crowd to eagerly lick management's shoe soles at every possible opportunity.
 
"Maybe Brice, Tony Anger, Cap'n Aux and Peeper can gin up a Planet APA video." Hmm...maybe, but only assuming "Cap'n Aux" survived his heroically wannabe "U.S. Fighter Pilot" grand "adventure" in a baro chamber, that is.

It's what I've been saying since the MOU. The West are the shock troops for the Company. And with 15,000 pilots job actions will be all but impossible in section 6 with government involvement when the contract comes up for Section 6.

 

[Phoenix]

It's what I've been saying since the MOU. The West are the shock troops for the Company. And with 15,000 pilots job actions will be all but impossible in section 6 with government involvement when the contract comes up for Section 6.

Job actions are useless..

Women are smarter than pilots... Do wives start piling up the dirty dishes? Do they stop vacuuming? Do they resort to TV dinners? No, they simply cross their legs to negotiate what they want. They say "no" until they have what they want.

Pilots never cross their legs. Never.

 

[Metroyet]

It's what I've been saying since the MOU. The West are the shock troops for the Company. And with 15,000 pilots job actions will be all but impossible in section 6 with government involvement when the contract comes up for Section 6.

When a group of idiots contrives a union to be used as a weapon against 40% of the pilot group, it tends to divert that minority groups attentions away from assisting the other 60% in achieving their goals. How stupid are you? Do you REALLY think that management was ever a bigger enemy to the west than USAPA? Hope your latest lawsuit is in the can, you're losing the mini arb soon.

 

[nevergiveup]

I predict it will pass as did the MOU, for which I voted no.

 

[EastUS1]

When a group of idiots contrives a union to be used as a weapon against 40% of the pilot group, it tends to divert that minority groups attentions away from assisting the other 60% in achieving their goals. How stupid are you? Do you REALLY think that management was ever a bigger enemy to the west than USAPA? Hope your latest lawsuit is in the can, you're losing the mini arb soon.

 
"it tends to divert that minority groups attentions away from assisting the other 60% in achieving their goals. How stupid are you?" I strongly suspect that any loud sound or even trolled fishing lure would provide sufficient stimulus to divert your minority group's attentions away from assisting anyone, as proved the case at Ansett, and shouldn't your last be more properly asked as "How stupid are 'you'se?" while theatrically accompanied by some double-fisted-simian gestures and a heartily grunted "I hate all of you'se"?
 
Eastus1: Expect the bulk of the PHX crowd to eagerly lick management's shoe soles at every possible opportunity.  Metroyet: "Do you REALLY think that management was ever a bigger enemy to the west than USAPA?"  I rest my case.
 
While we're at it though; perhaps "you'se" would be kind enough to take a moment and explain both the "wisdom" and intent of your group's active campaign to ensure a court injunction against not only "fellow pilots" but yourselves as well? Is it not the true case that "you'se" even went so far as to provide information to the company to assist their efforts there?
 
At 1:46 into this first masterpiece; "Meanwhile, in the bleachers a PHX domicle update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean..."...? Any "thoughts" to offer there, "fellow pilot"?...Or were/are "you'se" still too busy trying to find ways to "turn in" your "fellows"? Oh! My mistake. I see you've just recently covered that last yet again: Metroyet:"I'm sure the phx reps will police LUS deadbeats closely and will spearhead the appropriate action." Have "you'se" already established an elite and special regiment of "spartans" (or better yet; "knights") to serve as "Hall Monitors", or can we all just rest assured that your sad little group's true nature will always provide plenty of volunteers for such noble duty?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzpMjT58WY
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpSFvQ-0p2I
 
 
 
P.S. One has to just love the cute little "Integrity matters" T-shirts though.

 

[EastUS1]

I predict it will pass as did the MOU, for which I voted no.

 
Sadly agreed here. I'm sure management can perpetually count on at least a 98% in favor of anything they want from PHX....not to mention a ready supply of eager strike breakers and "Hall Monitors"...

 

[EastUS1]

Or maybe even a new "Spartan" themed paint job! They could paint little spartan shields near the cockpit for all of their negative votes to eastie posts - true battle tested warriors I tell you.

What a group; reminds me of their retired war hero "nice landing captain" - he would be back here except he has been helping "prechill" fix her clocks.

 
Ah yes. Who could forget "nicelandingcaptain", who claimed to have saved "hundreds of troops on the ground" from his "gray jet" while unfortunately, as it was later proved, never being even so much as a thousand miles from any active combat theater of ops at any time. I can only hope he has more "spartan" success fixing pre's "T-minus" countdown clocks. I'd have to say that his most memorable post boasted that the Nic was "an inexorable glacier of righteousness", and no folks, one simply couldn't ever make such material or people up.
 
"What a group" indeed....

 

[EastUS1]

....They could paint little spartan shields near the cockpit for all of their negative votes to eastie posts - true battle tested warriors I tell you.
 

 
P.S. Given their obvious inability to otherwise provide even the slightest and at all rational justifications for their noble actions by way of explanation or logical argument; perhaps it'd be safer to just provide them with "heroic" but easily applied stickers, rather than foolishly requiring the more coherently disciplined strokes of a paint brush.

 

[luvthe9]

Fellow CLT Pilots,

The last couple days have been very busy and dynamic for us. As you are aware, we have been in Dallas attending the APA Special Board of Directors meeting to debate and decide whether to accept the Company’s December 23rd, 2014 proposal. The proposal contained a provision for retroactive pay to December 2nd, 2014 if accepted by the BOD by 2359 CST on January 3rd, 2015. Many of you have sent us emails and called to express your desire to be able to vote on this proposal. In our replies to you we stated it was our intention to allow you, the pilots, to be the ones to decide by membership ratification if the company proposal was acceptable or not. It is no secret that the BOD has been severely divided (12 to 10) on how to proceed in JCBA negotiations to this point. We are extremely pleased to report that at this critical meeting all 22 BOD members worked cooperatively and in encouraging harmony to represent your interests.

On day one of the meeting it was the unanimous decision of the BOD that the proposal was lacking many items. Of those items it was clear to everyone that the minimum day rig was the main point of contention of the membership and needed to be corrected. With that in mind, the BOD felt compelled to craft a proposal to encourage the Company to include some kind of language that would correct the problem.

The BOD crafted a Tasking Order to direct President Wilson and Vice President Roghair to engage senior management with an offer to ratify the December 23rd proposal at the Board level if they would agree to include the current West long rate rig with a reduced 22-hour layover limitation from the current 24-hour rule. Although there were several options to correct this problem, the BOD felt that the long rate rig would be the least costly to the Company and the easiest to understand. The Company rejected this offer citing valuations. When President Wilson delivered our previous proposal to management and offered to explain the costing he was told “it’s not about valuations”. Had the Company accepted our latest offer it would have immediately concluded JCBA negotiations, avoided arbitration and allowed the Company to communicate to the investors that they had a ratified pilot contract. As a reminder, both Delta and United have a minimum calendar day rig and it is standard in the industry. Some may think that it is not a reason to lose the pay raise because they don’t fly those trips. That would be a big mistake. The AA side has many of these trips. Some bases like MIA and LAX have a disproportionate amount. Some of these pilots fly 21 days in a month only to get 71 hours pay. What good is a raise if it takes you 4 more days a month to earn the same money? PHX will be losing their long rate rig when the contracts are fully merged. With the merged airline the entire trip building process changes for synergies and efficiencies (for the Company). Although CLT may only have 5% or 10% of their trips affected now, it could change to 30% or 40% in a matter of a single bid period.

Your reps and the entire BOD would welcome an agreement with the Company that moved us forward to build a great airline. This rejection by the Company further solidifies our assertion that they do not care about our legitimate concerns and if history is the barometer, most likely never will. On the plus side, this latest rejection has brought the BOD together like never before. It is becoming very clear to the other BOD members of just who they signed up with. The Company is totally over their head with this merger. They have missed almost every deadline that they themselves have created. They are years behind on implementation issues for lack of properly preparing, funding, and under estimating the enormity of the merger that they told the world that they could do. The line pilots are and will continue to pay the price for their lack of foresight. We are in the process of filing yet another Presidential grievance for the new vacation section of the MTA for block holders because they are not prepared for the new language, but still go ahead and implement the parts they want. As it stands now, you may need to pick up time to take vacation until completion of the grievance process.

In our continued effort to work through the company’s inefficiencies, we have agreed to a resolution that accepts (not approves) the offer (on January 3rd) and after final contract language review, will allow for membership voting. To date they put almost zero effort in any JCBA items. In this case, the item (combined domestic/international flying) is something they want; yet they can’t or won’t even show us the courtesy to be prepared with completed language. This is not a section to ignore. It is far reaching and will affect the daily lives of all American Airlines pilots. It is not like the USAirway’s operation. On the AA side there are certain pilots that are qualified to certain high risk cities. Reserves that have the qualification are called out of seniority order. Trip drop and pickup is affected, etc. This critical language has far reaching ramifications involving numerous areas of the new contract. It will not be created in haste under imposed artificial deadlines that can’t be met due to no fault of APA.

As a side note and to dispel any rumors out there, several of the BOD members (the 12 & the 10) requested a meeting earlier than the January 2nd one. We were informed that it would be futile since the company had not responded in several areas regarding critical contract language, and would not until after the holidays. As usual we were ready, they were not.

Both Delta and American will be reporting Q4 and annual earnings the week of January 19th and 26th respectively. You can expect the results to be mind numbingly high! We encourage you to listen to both and judge for yourself which airline has a true labor friendly culture. American will have a week after DAL to craft their earnings story. They will no doubt highlight the raise they offered as proof that they are labor friendly. But the story is much bigger than that and Delta lives it every day. Along with earnings, management bonuses will be announced. Please compare those with Delta also.

In closing, we were ready to end our long battle with management. We had prepared a letter to you announcing that the Company had accepted our very compelling offer and that it was time to put the past behind us and get on board. The Company regrettably chose their usual path. They can live with it. Or as one BOD member says “You shot it, you eat it”. You will at some point get a chance to vote. The vote may very well pass, but they will never earn your respect or dedication. It is clear that they are content with a forced work ethic. They shot it, they can eat it”.

In our opinion, any cultural and philosophy change will need to be mandated by a majority of the pilots. Please stand by for further updates that may affect the way you choose to vote.

In Unity

Bob Frear

Ron Nelson

[email protected]
Use the following link to view this email on the APA Website:
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/Home/APAMemberNews/tabid/842/articleType/CategoryView/categoryId/79/Charlotte.aspx

 

[EastUS1]

 
Ah yes. Who could forget "nicelandingcaptain", who claimed to have saved "hundreds of troops on the ground" from his "gray jet" while unfortunately, as it was later proved, never being even so much as a thousand miles from any active combat theater of ops at any time. I can only hope he has more "spartan" success fixing pre's "T-minus" countdown clocks. I'd have to say that his most memorable post boasted that the Nic was "an inexorable glacier of righteousness", and no folks, one simply couldn't ever make such material or people up.
 
"What a group" indeed....

 
I see a "spartan" minus vote/victory sticker already. So tell us all, oh mighty "battle" tested and "valor" drenched "knights" of the west;  just exactly why and what part of that post wasn't 100% accurate?
 
I'll have to stick with my previous: P.S. Given their obvious inability to otherwise provide even the slightest and at all rational justifications for their noble actions by way of explanation or logical argument; perhaps it'd be safer to just provide them with "heroic" but easily applied stickers, rather than foolishly requiring the more coherently disciplined strokes of a paint brush...And of course, that your sad little group's true nature will always shine through.

 

[luvthe9]

Glad to hear this!



"On the plus side, this latest rejection has brought the BOD together like never before. It is becoming very clear to the other BOD members of just who they signed up with. "

 

[EastUS1]

In our opinion, any cultural and philosophy change will need to be mandated by a majority of the pilots.
 

 
Pretty much.

 

[EastUS1]

Glad to hear this!



"On the plus side, this latest rejection has brought the BOD together like never before. It is becoming very clear to the other BOD members of just who they signed up with. "

 
So they, the BOD, finally figured at least that much out? Good. Far past time, I'd say.

 

[luvthe9]

So they finally figured at least that much out? Good.

Better late than never I guess.

 

[EastUS1]

Better late than never I guess.

 
Indeed.