2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

This is now a silly conversation. Of course NO ONE here takes joy in seeing others go through any measure of difficulty. They do think to themselves though that they're happier it's someone else and not them. But this is the airline business and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn't had his own measure of hardships.

As for a future draw down in PHX, CLT, DFW, MIA or wherever. What most of us have read is what the analysts think and believe AA should do. Analysts aren't the one's running the airline though.

Now if there is any possible draw down in the future you have to remember that currently AA is in growth mode all over the place. Layoffs or displacements would be mitigated by the fact that people are being hired all over the system and those new hires would be the one's subject to the all too familiar bumping. On top of that my guess would be that if it was a significant draw down anywhere, some type of buyout package would likely be offered as well to help mitigate some of the effect?

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA i was thinking that too but any kind of buyout wld more than likely have to include medical if the airline wants to get as many folks out as possible but only time will tell

 

[WeAAsles]

No people here have suggested PHX will see cuts and it seems some would take joy seeing Freedom impacted. They blame him (as one vote) for ratifying the 08 agreement and selling out the small stations but it was the IAM 141 negotiating committee that reached the agreement and brought it back to the membership. 700 didn't criticize the UA agreement he said the membership ratified it but yet six years later is still going on about the 08 agreement. And certain posters here want to sell out small stations for catering at CLT yet the same people find no issue with that.

Josh

Freedom is just a microcosm of how people feel and what they are prepared to agree to if a contract is put in front of them. Whatever he said he did should be respected for the fact that he came on here and said it. Is it preferable that people don't speak up so you can understand the logic or maybe try to influence them or the readers to your way of thinking?

During your TA decider at one point I saw over 60 people reading this page. If everyone was in total agreement you wouldn't have that many readers and whatever message you had wouldn't get out to the masses who want to read your opinion and see things from different angles. 

We could have a mutual admiration society on here if we'd like but that would be pretty boring and wouldn't wind up interesting too many people.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA i was thinking that too but any kind of buyout wld more than likely have to include medical if the airline wants to get as many folks out as possible but only time will tell

Robbed we had members leave with a 33k buyout and retiree medical lost. Now granted it was during the BK and some were thinking a doom and gloom scenario of a sinking Titanic. But some also saw it as just enough for them to make the transition out the door.

Come to find MANY messed up in that decision though since I've heard in many places they are coming to their Union halls and asking if there is any way to get their jobs back?

People really need to think clearly and maybe seek some advice before they make life altering plans or changes.

 

[robbedagain]

Agree there bro

 

[ograc]

The concession stand is closed. It's time for meaningful gains in future JCBA negotiations. If not now; then when?

 

[737823]

The concession stand is closed. It's time for meaningful gains in future JCBA negotiations. If not now; then when?

Well why did the IAM give away everything in section 6 when you had leverage and settle for that agreement with a company who made $1.9 billion in the first half of the year? Your negotiatiors left a lot of money on the table. Someone correct me if I am wrong but it seems the consensus here is people are happy scope remained the same-isn't negotiating about enhancing and improving not just hanging onto what you already have?

 

[737823]

This is now a silly conversation. Of course NO ONE here takes joy in seeing others go through any measure of difficulty. They do think to themselves though that they're happier it's someone else and not them. But this is the airline business and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn't had his own measure of hardships.
As for a future draw down in PHX, CLT, DFW, MIA or wherever. What most of us have read is what the analysts think and believe AA should do. Analysts aren't the one's running the airline though.
Now if there is any possible draw down in the future you have to remember that currently AA is in growth mode all over the place. Layoffs or displacements would be mitigated by the fact that people are being hired all over the system and those new hires would be the one's subject to the all too familiar bumping. On top of that my guess would be that if it was a significant draw down anywhere, some type of buyout package would likely be offered as well to help mitigate some of the effect?

People here have suggested they would take joy seeing PHX cut and Fredoom impacted.

Josh

 

[freedom]

People here have suggested they would take joy seeing PHX cut and Fredoom impacted.

Josh

And what if they have ? Who even cares, I don't ...we're rampers we say rude things to each other all the time , all part of the job ....

 

[robbedagain]

Josh i cant speak for everyone but ill tell u this.. for FSA im thrilled we got what we got in 2014 w our deal Scope is so much more improved it makes it Almost Impossible for the company to outsource. 7 weekly flights which boils down to 1 jet a day wages greatly improved sick improved vacation for 25 yrs n more get 5th week plus signing bonus. Im glad we took it and as Orgac says we shld ask for more in JCBA this current deal also gives us raises thru 2017. For those who want to see folks like freedom shown the door thats up to them to feel that way but i have yet to see them express it on here. I think they just want him to feel what we have been thru over the last 15 yrs or so. I dont want to see it happen but as i look at it this way the new AA will keep phx probably as a focus city similar to dca but w more flights thats just me.

 

[Jester]

I dont want to see it happen but as i look at it this way the new AA will keep phx probably as a focus city similar to dca but w more flights thats just me.

 
PHX is no DCA... it doesn't have the high RASM of DCA or large numbers of O&D, but rather it is a price sensitive market of connecting passengers.  Rightfully, everyone points to DFW and LAX terms of coverage in lieu of PHX, but I see other hubs, as well.  Why couldn't a passenger fly STL-ORD-SEA instead of STL-PHX-SEA?  There are plenty of other examples, as well.  
 
Geographically PHX is far too south to be a good hub, especially with a low percentage of O&D passengers.  Also did I not read recently that AA picked-up 4 LAX former UA gates?  Figure maybe another 25-30 flights from those newly acquired gates?
 
If PHX would become like DCA, would that suggest large numbers of Express flights being fed by mainline aircraft?  Are there that many business opportunities flying into YUM, FLG, SBA, etc. to justify keeping PHX as a hub?  I am not seeing that.
 
I think that clock is running and in less than 2 1/2 years we will see some serious cuts in PHX.

 

[Black Magic]

Well why did the IAM give away everything in section 6 when you had leverage and settle for that agreement with a company who made $1.9 billion in the first half of the year? Your negotiatiors left a lot of money on the table. Someone correct me if I am wrong but it seems the consensus here is people are happy scope remained the same-isn't negotiating about enhancing and improving not just hanging onto what you already have?

Section 6 means nothing to the current IAM leadership as proven by the current contract worth a bag of potato chips. 5 years of "talks" just for fun and formalities. The company greased the right IAM palms and both got what it wanted. "Lock and Load" my ass, just another ploy to keep moral from being subdued. It's all just a ruse nowadays.

 

[WeAAsles]

Alright let's change the direction of this conversation and get away from any outsourcing or downsizing talk for a bit, shall we.

If my math is correct with Delta's 4% raise that should give us a $1.54 per hour raise next Sept, bringing us to $24.54 not including the longevity pay that we have on the AA side. I will be at the top of that which is currently .30 cents bringing my base to $24.84. Not counting their longevity pay UAL members will be at $25.22 the following Jan. What do people think is the likelihood of AA at least matching that rate sometime next year if we also agree to fast track negotiations?

Looking at the APFA TA we know that the company wants to roll a projected profit sharing formula directly into the contract. They valued it for the FA's at 50 Mil. I agree with that idea because profits in the airline industry are here today, gone tomorrow. To me let the company have it. If we could have made more with it one year so what. Let them pay down their debt and shore up the foundation for future negotiations if they're in a better financial footing.

Two items I noticed in the APFA TA that I took note of and could become standard? They now get a total of 7 weeks vacation in their contract. 6 weeks after 17 years. That would mean with my current 4 I would go up by 2 more weeks. I like that. Another item was IOD time. We currently on the AA side have 10 days and then we go to workman's comp. The increase in the APFA deal is to 6 months. A dramatic improvement.

Another area that they received improvements on was sick time. We here at AA currently get 5 lousy days. We used to get 12. I'd like to see a return to that and then something incorporated like in the UAL contract where we can use sick time to bridge our retiree Medical between 60 to 65. 

Let's get some convo going.

 

[WeAAsles]

Section 6 means nothing to the current IAM leadership as proven by the current contract worth a bag of potato chips. 5 years of "talks" just for fun and formalities. The company greased the right IAM palms and both got what it wanted. "Lock and Load" my ass, just another ploy to keep moral from being subdued. It's all just a ruse nowadays.

To be ignored and red marked. Moving forward.

 

[Black Magic]

Watch closely now folks.  The same usual peanut gallery will come on here defending the IAM.  These posters have key vested interests in their union positions and will stop at nothing to keep their $100k salaries rolling in.