2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[ChockJockey]

Josh,  PMUS tops out just slightly higher than DL   lower than UA   have the industry leading best scope  best medical    I sure as hell would not say we have the industries' lowest sh!t now

 
Well he has to say this because his interests or the interests he represents are keen to see the IAM discredited, defamed, dead and buried.  If the members have to be mislead or brought to harm for this to happen then so be it,  given that he enjoys 'a standard of living far above and beyond anything the IAM will ever be able to provide' he has no reason to care if any of us get axed or marginalized and would likely be too busy obsessively comparing the elite offerings of the world's airlines to bother.  Whatever his apparently well-compensated professional interest is in posting here, it isn't to benefit our position.
 
I'd anticipate the response to this being a list of all the ways and manners the IAM itself has harmed and mislead the membership, we've seen it all before.  He has reminded us for years how sub-par and stingy US Airways is and was and yet is trying to convince us we'd have been better off unorganized under a race-to-the-bottom management team than be represented by the IAM.  That's a silly argument in itself and absurd when given the management culture at US and the realities of our workplace.
 
He has no credibility and his own motivations are highly suspect.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well he has to say this because his interests or the interests he represents are keen to see the IAM discredited, defamed, dead and buried.  If the members have to be mislead or brought to harm for this to happen then so be it,  given that he enjoys 'a standard of living far above and beyond anything the IAM will ever be able to provide' he has no reason to care if any of us get axed or marginalized and would likely be too busy obsessively comparing the elite offerings of the world's airlines to bother.  Whatever his apparently well-compensated professional interest is in posting here, it isn't to benefit our position.
 
I'd anticipate the response to this being a list of all the ways and manners the IAM itself has harmed and mislead the membership, we've seen it all before.  He has reminded us for years how sub-par and stingy US Airways is and was and yet is trying to convince us we'd have been better off unorganized under a race-to-the-bottom management team than be represented by the IAM.  That's a silly argument in itself and absurd when given the management culture at US and the realities of our workplace.
 
He has no credibility and his own motivations are highly suspect.

There is an extremely easy way to understand the value that we get from being a part of either the IAM or the TWU. Walk across your ramp and talk to any person working for a sub contractor. There is no argument or debate to me if you do that.

 

[ograc]

Josh can try all he wants to degrade the union leadership and our attempts to solidify the members of the TWU and the IAM. The reality is simple. The Association must advance the best interests' of both workforces entering into JCBA negotiations. Given the projected forecasts of the company's profits; there should be no concessions. There should be only gains for the membership. There are those who try to solidify the membership for the common good. Subsequently, there are those who continually attempt to erode solidarity among the combined workforce. Makes you wonder what demonic agenda they have chosen to follow. If you choose not to stand behind us Josh; than I welcome you to stand in front of us!
Lock and Load M####r F####r!

 

[WeAAsles]

Sometimes Josh is a useful "tool" to have around to start a conversation or debate. 5, 6 or 7?

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tool

 

[blue collar]

Josh,  PMUS tops out just slightly higher than DL   lower than UA   have the industry leading best scope  best medical    I sure as hell would not say we have the industries' lowest sh!t now

Is it the best though? From what I remember, WN rampers are staffed in every location they fly to, and are mostly full time. WN employees also handle all of the catering (provisioning). How much are full timers paying for the 100% plan (family rate too if you don't mind)?
I do think that your threshold for keeping a station staffed is good, 1 ML flight.

 

[WeAAsles]

Is it the best though? From what I remember, WN rampers are staffed in every location they fly to, and are mostly full time. WN employees also handle all of the catering (provisioning). How much are full timers paying for the 100% plan (family rate too if you don't mind)?
I do think that your threshold for keeping a station staffed is good, 1 ML flight.

The airline industry is notoriously brutal. As Warren Buffett once wrote in a letter to shareholders, “f a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.” Yet Southwest Airlines just recorded its 39th consecutive year of profitability—in a business sector where profits can be excruciatingly tough to come by.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/operations/2012/06/southwest_airlines_profitability_how_the_company_uses_operations_theory_to_fuel_its_success_.html

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh,  PMUS tops out just slightly higher than DL   lower than UA   have the industry leading best scope  best medical    I sure as hell would not say we have the industries' lowest sh!t now

Although I wouldn't want to trade places with DL rampers, you are incorrect sir.   Delta rampers top out almost a full $1 than you [closer to $2 in April], toss in a 7.5% 401k that is much more of a company contribution, and a profit sharing check that has been very impressive the last few years.  Our medical, as it is today, is the best.  Subtract health/pension even moreso for the 35% who are part time.
 
Further,  we do not have leading industry scope.  Only 33 stations are union staffed, and even in 12 of those stations, our scope is not exclusive. It will end up  much better than United, and certainly better than AA, but not as good as Southwest which works all stations staffed prior to 2009, and all other stations with 12 flights a day, a combo that gives them current protections of 3 times as many stations. 
 
As we enter Joint talks, there is plenty we need.  IMO, we need to further scope, enhance retirement, and work on part time  issues.  Those are my 'want' priorities.

 

[WeAAsles]

Although I wouldn't want to trade places with DL rampers, you are incorrect sir.   Delta rampers top out almost a full $1 than you [closer to $2 in April], toss in a 7.5% 401k that is much more of a company contribution, and a profit sharing check that has been very impressive the last few years.  Our medical, as it is today, is the best.  Subtract health/pension even moreso for the 35% who are part time.

If you were a true Union supporter Tim you would not forget to add the caveats that Delta has "Ready reserve" workers who are currently paid a max of $12.00 per hour with no benefits and are driving towards those numbers being 40% of the workforce. After that add that 20% are regular PT with benefits and you are left with maybe 40% reaching that pinnacle you declared? 

The Twinkee may look good on the outside but inside it's full of all sorts of crap that's bad for you.
 
 
Further,  we do not have leading industry scope.  Only 33 stations are union staffed, and even in 12 of those stations, our scope is not exclusive. It will end up  much better than United, and certainly better than AA, but not as good as Southwest which works all stations staffed prior to 2009, and all other stations with 12 flights a day, a combo that gives them current protections of 3 times as many stations.

And our SWA Brothers and Sisters never had to deal with concessions brought on by a BK court loaded gun. SWA has been profitable since the beginning and is the only reason why those employees have enjoyed benefits that we have lost. Another truth that should always be stated.
 
As we enter Joint talks, there is plenty we need.  IMO, we need to further scope, enhance retirement, and work on part time  issues.  Those are my 'want' priorities.

 

[T5towbar]

 

Although I wouldn't want to trade places with DL rampers, you are incorrect sir.   Delta rampers top out almost a full $1 than you [closer to $2 in April], toss in a 7.5% 401k that is much more of a company contribution, and a profit sharing check that has been very impressive the last few years.  Our medical, as it is today, is the best.  Subtract health/pension even moreso for the 35% who are part time.

If you were a true Union supporter Tim you would not forget to add the caveats that Delta has "Ready reserve" workers who are currently paid a max of $12.00 per hour with no benefits and are driving towards those numbers being 40% of the workforce. After that add that 20% are regular PT with benefits and you are left with maybe 40% reaching that pinnacle you declared? 

The Twinkee may look good on the outside but inside it's full of all sorts of crap that's bad for you.
 
 
Further,  we do not have leading industry scope.  Only 33 stations are union staffed, and even in 12 of those stations, our scope is not exclusive. It will end up  much better than United, and certainly better than AA, but not as good as Southwest which works all stations staffed prior to 2009, and all other stations with 12 flights a day, a combo that gives them current protections of 3 times as many stations.

And our SWA Brothers and Sisters never had to deal with concessions brought on by a BK court loaded gun. SWA has been profitable since the beginning and is the only reason why those employees have enjoyed benefits that we have lost. Another truth that should always be stated.
 
As we enter Joint talks, there is plenty we need.  IMO, we need to further scope, enhance retirement, and work on part time  issues.  Those are my 'want' priorities.

 

I have heard that 2 of DL's cargo centers are being farmed out to DGS.
SLC & MEM. Effective Dec. 15.  Don't have any comfirmation on that yet, though.
 
Their RR program is encroaching over their workforce. It seems to insulate the high time FT people, but what about the middle and the lower end people? And as I said before, they have DGS to back fill or outsource to as well. They still keep the money in house, and it is a cost saver for them.
 
As far as WN, they will be having their own issues as well.
Does their management say that they will need cuts? From what I hear, they want to farm out some stations and have more PT for the sake of "flexibility". That will be a issue, seeing that the others have already done those things. They have some pretty good leadership, and should be able to work things out.
 
 
Scope must be maintained or strengthened. PERIOD.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have heard that 2 of DL's cargo centers are being farmed out to DGS.
SLC & MEM. Effective Dec. 15.  Don't have any comfirmation on that yet, though.
 
Their RR program is encroaching over their workforce. It seems to insulate the high time FT people, but what about the middle and the lower end people? And as I said before, they have DGS to back fill or outsource to as well. They still keep the money in house, and it is a cost saver for them.
 
As far as WN, they will be having their own issues as well.
Does their management say that they will need cuts? From what I hear, they want to farm out some stations and have more PT for the sake of "flexibility". That will be a issue, seeing that the others have already done those things. They have some pretty good leadership, and should be able to work things out.
 
 
Scope must be maintained or strengthened. PERIOD.

SWA Fleet contract became amendable 3 and a half years ago now. Here are two recent memo's that show how great it is over at SWA.

http://www.twu555.org/Portals/12/negotiations_committee/555negotiations.pdf

http://twu555.org/LEBStaff/JerryMcCrummen/tabid/644/Default.aspx

And this is not even mentioning an AMFA update that I read where Garry Kelly told their negotiating committee "We want to become an ULTRA Low cost airline"

 

[robbedagain]

T5 on the dl thread mem cargo is toast sad

Tim PMUS our scope is a helluva improvement compared to the 08

 

[ograc]

SWA Fleet contract became amendable 3 and a half years ago now. Here are two recent memo's that show how great it is over at SWA.

http://www.twu555.org/Portals/12/negotiations_committee/555negotiations.pdf

http://twu555.org/LEBStaff/JerryMcCrummen/tabid/644/Default.aspx

And this is not even mentioning an AMFA update that I read where Garry Kelly told their negotiating committee "We want to become an ULTRA Low cost airline"

 
SWA ramp contract has been amendable for over three years. SWA above wing (IAM) is also past it's amendable date. There is trouble in paradise. The environment between labor and SWA is changing. The airline is starting to experience the growing pains of the industry. I think it's only fair, before we start comparing current contracts at UA and AA, that we wait to see how both groups at SWA come out of negotiations. It is my understanding the company is after substantial concessions from both groups. Let's wait to compare. The grass may not necessarily be greener on the other side. SWA will be under a lot of pressure to compete with the two newly created mega carriers.
 

 

[Kev3188]

I have heard that 2 of DL's cargo centers are being farmed out to DGS.
SLC & MEM. Effective Dec. 15.  Don't have any comfirmation on that yet, though.

Absolutely true. Effective 12/01...
 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Although I wouldn't want to trade places with DL rampers, you are incorrect sir.   Delta rampers top out almost a full $1 than you [closer to $2 in April], toss in a 7.5% 401k that is much more of a company contribution, and a profit sharing check that has been very impressive the last few years.  Our medical, as it is today, is the best.  Subtract health/pension even moreso for the 35% who are part time.If you were a true Union supporter Tim you would not forget to add the caveats that Delta has "Ready reserve" workers who are currently paid a max of $12.00 per hour with no benefits and are driving towards those numbers being 40% of the workforce. After that add that 20% are regular PT with benefits and you are left with maybe 40% reaching that pinnacle you declared? 
The Twinkee may look good on the outside but inside it's full of all sorts of crap that's bad for you.
 
 
Further,  we do not have leading industry scope.  Only 33 stations are union staffed, and even in 12 of those stations, our scope is not exclusive. It will end up  much better than United, and certainly better than AA, but not as good as Southwest which works all stations staffed prior to 2009, and all other stations with 12 flights a day, a combo that gives them current protections of 3 times as many stations.And our SWA Brothers and Sisters never had to deal with concessions brought on by a BK court loaded gun. SWA has been profitable since the beginning and is the only reason why those employees have enjoyed benefits that we have lost. Another truth that should always be stated.
 
As we enter Joint talks, there is plenty we need.  IMO, we need to further scope, enhance retirement, and work on part time  issues.  Those are my 'want' priorities.

I was responding to robbedagains's incorrect remarks about wage, and also piggybacked another remark about dl losing two cargo centers.

You want to engage the issue of ready reserve? It sucks, but ready reserve is no worse than the bloodbath that the twu agreed with by tossing you and dfw a few bucks to wipe out dozens of stations. So whats the difference between ready reserve and all the vendors that your peeps allowed to do your work? And dont claim bankruptcy because dl and usairways went bankrupt as well. The difference is at usairways in 2008 was that we were educated enuf to realize scope plus strong medical was better long term than going for a $2 raise and agreeing to ridiculous scope and high health care. Those der da facts ma'am.

Thank mia and dfw for going for the pay raise and throwing union jobs to the dogs. That, sir, is anti union. And fwiw, you need to wake up and realize that labor organizations eff workers as well if u dont hold them accountable. So knock off the pollyannaism.

 

[robbedagain]

Tim w regards to PMUS wages id say its fairly along the lines of the big 2 (DL, UA) now i do think our scope is dam good esp when compared to the scope fro 05 n 08 deals. I mean 1 ml jet a week b4 they can outsource not to mention no layoffs for PMUS