2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[john john]

Cargo I beyond respect your 34 years with the airline but

I want my NOW

 

[john john]

As an IAM member and fleet service employee with US for 34 years I find it rather demeaning for someone like Josh to support subcontracting my job just because I work in an outline station and work a mix of mainline and regional flights. We need to get away from this thought process that the only jobs worth protecting are those in stations with only mainline flights. The below wing work, weather it be mainline of regional, is no different. Matter of fact, a Saab flown by Mesa, with their countless jet way checked bags requires more bodies than a short stacked mainline airbus. Regarding scope and the JCBA; let's set the language bar at weekly departures. Regardless of weather they are mainline or regional. I've spent more time working mainline flights in my career than Josh or other junior agents in hub stations. Josh's reasoning and thought process parallels the company's. Eliminate represented jobs. Lessen the union's leverage in future negotiations and wait for them to collapse from within. Unions are about protecting existing work and jobs. Anyone who perpetuates an agenda contrary to this is not a true unionist. Need I say more Brothers and Sisters?.

What a great post with good insight of pass present and future a person with true grit

 

[john john]

I'm cool with your scenario my union brother but I would like to find out if people who live in some of those low COLA areas are willing to make some sacrifises for our Brothers and Sisters who do not and do not want to move for money either.

A way for management to dived the membership and allows management to time-consuming tactics slowing down negotiations.

 

[john john]

Being that you do live and work in a small station I want to gauge your thought here. In our BK we lost 350 jobs when Cabin service was stripped from us here in MIA. What if the company said we will give you back those jobs but we want the equivalent of 200 people by closing X amount of stations. That would be a net gain of 150 jobs although they are no longer spread out over the nation but condensed into one geographic location.

Would you consider the gain of 150 quality Union jobs to be something to call someone not a true unionist?

Not going along Josh's line of trading out jobs for cash.

This type of negotiations plays into the company hands allowing job replacement at the expense of allow outsourcing, That is how your station got in this position to begin with allowing scope detritions. Get the 350 Cabin service jobs back………….. your agenda to bring jobs to MIA to better your position at the expense of other is telling. net gain allowing outsourcing is this your agenda.You all IAM/TWU need to stand strong on outsourcing system wide not net gain allowing outsourcing agenda.Going along with trading scope for jobs to better another station

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA  before our current contract  there were rumors flying rampant that BWI and a few other cities were on the chopping block   but all that rumors went out the door..  BWI I think would fall under a COLA thing you been brining up  given MD higher cost of living.  But as far as other cities go I dont know bout CLT  or even MIA  but how would FLL fall into the category or even PBI?  

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA  before our current contract  there were rumors flying rampant that BWI and a few other cities were on the chopping block   but all that rumors went out the door..  BWI I think would fall under a COLA thing you been brining up  given MD higher cost of living.  But as far as other cities go I dont know bout CLT  or even MIA  but how would FLL fall into the category or even PBI?  

Robbed I live 5 miles from FLL and work in MIA. When you look at the list of combined hubs there are 6 that should fall into the category of needing relief. Those would be ORD, LAX, MIA, JFK, PHL and DCA. The 3 that do not NEED relief are CLT, DFW and PHX. Now watch the debate here. People in low COLA and those Southern Hubs are going to try and paint a picture of me that I'm anti union for even discussing this absolutely serious issue. They have an agenda and that agenda is purely motivated by their own GREED. I grew up in Queens NY where I used my example as the base line. I know all too well how those members are suffering and that there are solutions to providing them some relief for that. Here's the answer you get from others who are far more fortunate financially "Well who told them to live there" or "Well they can always transfer" Sound familiar to any of you from those small stations?

I spent 12 years of my career in DFW. Even was able to buy and afford a house when I was only making $13.00 per hour. I transferred here to MIA about 4 years ago because I wanted to, knowing full well the costs and that I wanted something more than living in an area because it was cheap. I was not happy there so I made a switch, "My Choice"

That UAL contract with it's station closures set a bar that we would be foolish and stupid to ignore. It was a template that the company is absolutely going to be looking at and again we have to figure out "Creative Solutions" possibly to keep good paying, solid blue collar, Union jobs in those areas "without" sacrificing the "majority" of members receiving gains while playing hard ball that we have no desire or ambition to discuss the issue in negotiations. 

So what's the solution? COLA, Regional pay, Tier stations or pay, wage caps? How do you guys propose we get the relief (Money) to where it's really NEEDED to our Brothers and Sisters who are suffering?    

 

[WeAAsles]

This type of negotiations plays into the company hands allowing job replacement at the expense of allow outsourcing, That is how your station got in this position to begin with allowing scope detritions. Get the 350 Cabin service jobs back………….. your agenda to bring jobs to MIA to better your position at the expense of other is telling. net gain allowing outsourcing is this your agenda.You all IAM/TWU need to stand strong on outsourcing system wide not net gain allowing outsourcing agenda.Going along with trading scope for jobs to better another station

Wrong. In 1995 a second tier wage scale (Jr FSC) was negotiated into our contract which provided the company relief and maintained jobs across the system. I transferred to DFW in 97 and had only 50 FTers under me. By the time Sept 11 rolled around that number had built to 650 FTers under me. The Company between 95 and 01 was making gangbuster money and in turn we got the best contract anyone had ever seen just before the planes hit the towers. Jr FSC was gone, we received great raises across the board and stations remained opened. (Yes in 1995 some stations did close, mainly RDU and BNA, dehubbed)

Then Sept 11 happened and a Global Economic Collapse followed. We lost jobs in the 03 concessions and those Cabin Service jobs that we held onto for dear life were finally lost in the BK. Those jobs were far from given away for others benefit I assure you. (The TWU doesn't work that way)

Now since you made this comment further back about me "I want my NOW" Yet me give you a little insight there Jack. My friends were on the negotiating committee for the BK. They told me what the company wanted and the value of each specific item. I told them that "I" would be willing to take a $2.00 per hour cut if it kept jobs. They told me I was crazy because there was no way the members would accept it. They were right because when the BK TA came back it had a .43 cent an hour paycut and people I talked to went ballistic. It passed but for a little while there I wasn't sure if it would?

Now Cabin service. The price on that was 20 Mil per year. Our guys offered that back in value to save the job. The company said no. Our guys then offered 30 mil in value to save it and the company still said , NO! So you tell me how WE gave up jobs?

So you may want to backpeddle on your comment since you are absolutely way off the mark there Jack.

 

[AANOTOK]

Robbed I live 5 miles from FLL and work in MIA. When you look at the list of combined hubs there are 6 that should fall into the category of needing relief. Those would be ORD, LAX, MIA, JFK, PHL and DCA. The 3 that do not NEED relief are CLT, DFW and PHX. Now watch the debate here. People in low COLA and those Southern Hubs are going to try and paint a picture of me that I'm anti union for even discussing this absolutely serious issue. They have an agenda and that agenda is purely motivated by their own GREED. I grew up in Queens NY where I used my example as the base line. I know all too well how those members are suffering and that there are solutions to providing them some relief for that. Here's the answer you get from others who are far more fortunate financially "Well who told them to live there" or "Well they can always transfer" Sound familiar to any of you from those small stations?

I spent 12 years of my career in DFW. Even was able to buy and afford a house when I was only making $13.00 per hour. I transferred here to MIA about 4 years ago because I wanted to, knowing full well the costs and that I wanted something more than living in an area because it was cheap. I was not happy there so I made a switch, "My Choice"

That UAL contract with it's station closures set a bar that we would be foolish and stupid to ignore. It was a template that the company is absolutely going to be looking at and again we have to figure out "Creative Solutions" possibly to keep good paying, solid blue collar, Union jobs in those areas "without" sacrificing the "majority" of members receiving gains while playing hard ball that we have no desire or ambition to discuss the issue in negotiations. 

So what's the solution? COLA, Regional pay, Tier stations or pay, wage caps? How do you guys propose we get the relief (Money) to where it's really NEEDED to our Brothers and Sisters who are suffering?    

Dang W, we don't need management to divide and conquer. The way you put southern states and workers down does a pretty good job of causing strife. People in low cola and Southern hubs have an agenda and it's motivated purely by GREED. What a WeAAsle you are! Dude, your brush is too big for you to carry and any credibility I had for you just went out the window. What a jerk! So, anyone in the South isn't struggling at all, just the folks in Queens NY?

 

[WeAAsles]

Dang W, we don't need management to divide and conquer. The way you put southern states and workers down does a pretty good job of causing strife. People in low cola and Southern hubs have an agenda and it's motivated purely by GREED. What a WeAAsle you are! Dude, your brush is too big for you to carry and any credibility I had for you just went out the window. What a jerk! So, anyone in the South isn't struggling at all, just the folks in Queens NY?

Any struggle that an individual is going through is specific to that individual and is impossible to separate from the collective group. Far from putting those in Southern States down I consider and they should consider themselves fortunate that they earn the same as members who live in areas of the Country that are extremely difficult to survive on in comparison.  As for the term greed, of course we (Myself included) have a little of that in all of us. How do we separate that and as a Union (One Union, One Voice) be honest that others need more than we do? It's not the ones who live and work in those places that I'm saying are greedy but the one's who would argue their fortune in comparison to the charts I posted above that explain the true reality. 

I don't see how anyone can argue the facts when the numbers are so blatantly obvious and factual against their argument? Queens NY is just my example because I know the area and struggles extremely well. That chart and formula I wrote only considers the disparity in living costs and doesn't even factor in that they have City and State Taxes as well that they pay out. In other words those people are not keeping their heads above water and are drowning.

My guess from your comment is that you could care less?

 

[AANOTOK]

...and you brother speak loudly with your comments...label folks from the South...not the first time you have done it and I'm sure it won't be the last. As for being fortunate, I feel blessed I don't have to work around you. I can tell from some of your comments that you're probably a loudmouth who is probably true to his union. But the problem is your idea of a union is undoubtedly more heads so you have to do less. Keep fighting the good fight W and I will continue to be a worker from the South who lacks GREED and has a periodic struggle, just like your boys from Queens NY!

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA it almost sounds similar to living in MD. For example i used to rent in Baltimore City in a crash pad paid city taxes then moved to AA county whereas my son went to a special school n paid higher taxes.. but then moved to baltimore county n paid lit less in taxes compared to the city n AA counties. But make no mistake MD taxes are high but for the COLA did u have that PMAA? Ive heard US n PI used to have it but am not sure

 

[700UW]

PI had riders in DCA, LGA, JFK and BOS, not sure of what other cities, that was in Maintenance, cant say anything about Fleet as they were non-union.
 
UA use to have it too, I know HI cities had it.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA it almost sounds similar to living in MD. For example i used to rent in Baltimore City in a crash pad paid city taxes then moved to AA county whereas my son went to a special school n paid higher taxes.. but then moved to baltimore county n paid lit less in taxes compared to the city n AA counties. But make no mistake MD taxes are high but for the COLA did u have that PMAA? Ive heard US n PI used to have it but am not sure

I think they used to have it before I hired on Robbed. And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying or looking for any type of wage variable that can make it equal across the board but a small measure of relief in certain cities would help. To take NYC as the example it's a place that everyone in the world wants to move to and live there. Wall Street is the banking hub of the world. NYC has the culture, nightlife, attractions, museums, Times Square and transportation system that make it so expensive to live there. Not to say that Southern States don't have their unique charms but they just are not as expensive to live in because they don't offer as much as some other places do. Basically you get what you pay for.

Oh forgot to mention the food in NYC. Wow do I miss the food.

 

[WeAAsles]

...and you brother speak loudly with your comments...label folks from the South...not the first time you have done it and I'm sure it won't be the last. As for being fortunate, I feel blessed I don't have to work around you. I can tell from some of your comments that you're probably a loudmouth who is probably true to his union. But the problem is your idea of a union is undoubtedly more heads so you have to do less. Keep fighting the good fight W and I will continue to be a worker from the South who lacks GREED and has a periodic struggle, just like your boys from Queens NY!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs

 

[AANOTOK]

Hilarious, good movie! But, my names not Francis...and for some reason I'm thinking his accent is probably a little closer to yours than mine. Nice clip though! 
 
I'm believe this is what you need.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA