2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Kev3188]

As an IAM member and fleet service employee with US for 34 years I find it rather demeaning for someone like Josh to support subcontracting my job just because I work in an outline station and work a mix of mainline and regional flights. We need to get away from this thought process that the only jobs worth protecting are those in stations with only mainline flights. The below wing work, weather it be mainline of regional, is no different. Matter of fact, a Saab flown by Mesa, with their countless jet way checked bags requires more bodies than a short stacked mainline airbus. Regarding scope and the JCBA; let's set the language bar at weekly departures. Regardless of weather they are mainline or regional. I've spent more time working mainline flights in my career than Josh or other junior agents in hub stations. Josh's reasoning and thought process parallels the company's. Eliminate represented jobs. Lessen the union's leverage in future negotiations and wait for them to collapse from within. Unions are about protecting existing work and jobs. Anyone who perpetuates an agenda contrary to this is not a true unionist. Need I say more Brothers and Sisters?.

It's bad enough when someone like "Josh" does it.

When it's a coworker (or peer), it's unconscionable.

 

[robbedagain]

Thanks 700 and WeAA WeAA i understand what ur saying bro.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thanks 700 and WeAA WeAA i understand what ur saying bro.

Robbed let's see what happens when I put another exercise up here? You guys just got a $2.00 per hour increase across the board in every station in the system. On top of that because of the industry averaging you and I are going to get another $1.50 next Sept no matter what. Let's say that the negotiations are concluded just before or after that date and the company at least matches what top rate UAL will get in Jan 2016 which is $25.22. So that comes out to be an increase of over $4.00 per hour total for you guys in less than 2 years and a $2.22 increase from where we at AA are now.

Let's say since we are all good and caring Union Brothers and Sisters here who are concerned about others who are part of our collective we who live in LOW COLA areas (I'll throw MIA in to take me out of that equation) decide to fore go $1.00 of that increase and donate it to those who live in HIGH COLA areas? That would take me and us to $24.22 and them to $26.22. That would provide a BASE wage relief of $4160.00 per year. Going back to the equations I posted on page 895 that doesn't even BEGIN to rectify the wage disparity but it does provide a small measure of relief.

Now for the sake of this conversation those who disagree I want to know why you disagree and also tell me where you live? And the exercise loses ZERO jobs BTW.

And also BTW for the entire 12 years that I lived and worked in DFW I spoke and advocated that people should get a COLA who need it over me and where I live. So this is far from a new thought in my mind.   

 

[WeAAsles]

So if the practice is good enough for the United States Military to apply to our men and women in service to our nation, then we can have the audacity to claim that it is anti union?
 
"Stipends or extra pay provided to employees who are being temporarily relocated may also be called cost-of-living adjustments or cost-of-living allowances. Such adjustments are intended to offset changes in welfare due to geographic differences in the cost of living. Such adjustments might more accurately be described as a per diem allowance or tied to a specific item, as with housing allowances. Employees who are being permanently relocated are less likely to receive such allowances, but may receive a base salary adjustment to reflect local market conditions.
 
A cost-of-living allowance is frequently given to members of the U.S. military stationed at overseas bases if the area to which a service member is assigned has a higher cost of living than the average area in the United States. For example, service members stationed in Japan receive a cost of living allowance of between $300 and $700 per month (depending on pay grade, years of service, and number of dependents), in addition to their base pay. This additional pay is non-taxable."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_living

 

[ograc]

That is so true. I will say that it should be our work. Anything with our airline's name on it should be ours. Period. Problem is that the company will claim that "we (mainline employee) cost too much." Especially Wall Street and the armchair CEO's says so. Since the other airlines that had employees at stations farmed out to their subsidiaries (or cheaper vendors), we have to be "competitive" and match (or go below) the vendors prices. That's the new claim now. During the "Competitive Market Sourcing" (the new name for the outsourcing program) The rates were so low, none of could compete with what these people were proposing. Especially if you are cheaper than DGS or Eagle. And to mentioned in my last post, we don't have an in-house outfit as well. So when the scope was given up, that meant things are up for grabs. I've even heard (don't know how true this is) that the vendors are wearing UA uniforms. OUR UNIFORMS FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!  This is lower than low!
 
All I'm saying is that we are paying for the mistake. The next contract MUST protect the remaining work on the larger line stations, and getting back Express in IAD; DEN; SFO; and LAX. That alone should preserve jobs, and stop the downgrades of people. The are taking their pound of flesh now.....
 
You guys are in much better position to preserve scope. I feel that your contract will be a lot better than ours, and if all goes well, might be a new template for airline negotiations for Ramp/Fleet Services.
 
Good luck to you all!

I've said it before; both airlines are projected to make multi millions in profits. It's time we realize this and get away from concessions in negotiations. It's time to not only protect existing work but to successfully push for in sourcing work currently being done by vendors such as DGS or Eagle. AA has announced the in sourcing of vendor work, below wing, in I believe 10 stations. We need to make it work. let's hope the company provides the necessary manpower to be successful. It's time we take a position on the issue of COLA in future negotiations. The economics for the airlines have changed dramatically over the past few years. It's time to negotiate gains and refuse to negotiate trade offs and concessions. These airlines are on the path to record breaking profits Brothers and Sisters. The concession stand is closed.  

 

[WeAAsles]

I've said it before; both airlines are projected to make multi millions in profits. It's time we realize this and get away from concessions in negotiations. It's time to not only protect existing work but to successfully push for in sourcing work currently being done by vendors such as DGS or Eagle. AA has announced the in sourcing of vendor work, below wing, in I believe 10 stations. We need to make it work. let's hope the company provides the necessary manpower to be successful. It's time we take a position on the issue of COLA in future negotiations. The economics for the airlines have changed dramatically over the past few years. It's time to negotiate gains and refuse to negotiate trade offs and concessions. These airlines are on the path to record breaking profits Brothers and Sisters. The concession stand is closed.  

So Cargo are you saying that you support my position that yes we should absolutely secure gains for all but that some of our members need even more gains than the rest of us?

 

[WeAAsles]

But in 1895, unable to launch an interracial machinists’ union of its own, the Federation reversed an earlier principled decision and chartered the whites-only International Association of Machinists. Formally or informally, the color bar thereafter spread throughout the trade union movement. In 1902, blacks made up scarcely 3 percent of total membership, most of them segregated in Jim Crow locals. In the case of women and eastern European immigrants, a similar devolution occurred–welcomed as equals in theory, excluded or segregated in practice. (Only the fate of Asian workers was unproblematic; their rights had never been asserted by the afl in the first place.)

The formation of the afl–cio in 1955 visibly testified to the powerful continuities persisting through the age of industrial unionism. Above all, the central purpose remained what it had always been–to advance the economic and job interests of the union membership.

Yet the afl–cio played a crucial role in the battle for civil rights legislation in 1964-1965. That this legislation might be directed against discriminatory trade union practices was anticipated (and quietly welcomed) by the more progressive labor leaders. But more significant was the meaning they found in championing this kind of reform: the chance to act on the broad ideals of the labor movement. And, so motivated, they deployed labor’s power with great effect in the achievement of John F. Kennedy’s and Lyndon B. Johnson’s domestic programs during the 1960s.

In the meantime, however, the movement’s impotence has been felt. “The collapse of labor’s legislative power facilitated the adoption of a set of economic policies highly beneficial to the corporate sector and to the affluent,” wrote analyst Thomas B. Edsall in 1984. And, with collective bargaining in retreat, declining living standards of American wage-earning families set in for the first time since the Great Depression. The union movement became in the 1980s a diminished economic and political force, and, in the Age of Reagan, this made for a less socially just nation.

http://www.history.com/topics/labor

 

[ograc]

So Cargo are you saying that you support my position that yes we should absolutely secure gains for all but that some of our members need even more gains than the rest of us?

 
There are many issues that need improvement going forward. Protecting all existing work and COLA are on my list Brother. It's time to get our fair share. The days of bankruptcy are behind us. This should be the posture of the Alliance NC going forward. No trade offs of jobs. No concessions. We start with what we have and improve on that. The time is now! With that being said... there should be no more talk of outsourcing outline station jobs for insourcing catering in the hubs. Let's not turn against each other. Let's fight for a better deal for all! You OK with that?
 

 

[WeAAsles]

 
There are many issues that need improvement going forward. Protecting all existing work and COLA are on my list Brother. It's time to get our fair share. The days of bankruptcy are behind us. This should be the posture of the Alliance NC going forward. No trade offs of jobs. No concessions. We start with what we have and improve on that. The time is now! With that being said... there should be no more talk of outsourcing outline station jobs for insourcing catering in the hubs. Let's not turn against each other. Let's fight for a better deal for all! You OK with that?
 

I'M absolutely Ok with that but we have to know and understand the realities as well so we can counteract that with conversation and not shy away from a particular subject just because either someone doesn't like it or they have a particular self serving motivation against it. One is the conversation that yes Josh started but I expanded on. And the other is a particular subject that affects you in particular. That would be the topic of small stations.

You can believe what I'm telling you or not and that's your choice but I have worked in TWO hubs and spent considerable time in both talking to people. The reality is that there are too many who can't even see the tip of their nose in front of their faces. And what I mean by that is they don't care about my COLA agenda or keeping small stations open if it means less for them. They want as much as they can get and will shut the doors on you for an extra 25 cents. I talked about greed further back because it stares me in the face every single day. And it's the greed of my own members who care nothing about anything except "When am I getting my pre-funding match back" or "Hey so how much is MY raise going to be next year" 

People don't care about each other today Cargo. Everyone has an agenda and too many of them out there are spitting out BS if they tell you they don't. America is a me me me society and each day I'm not sure which direction it's headed for? Better or worse?

 

[ograc]

I'M absolutely Ok with that but we have to know and understand the realities as well so we can counteract that with conversation and not shy away from a particular subject just because either someone doesn't like it or they have a particular self serving motivation against it. One is the conversation that yes Josh started but I expanded on. And the other is a particular subject that affects you in particular. That would be the topic of small stations.

You can believe what I'm telling you or not and that's your choice but I have worked in TWO hubs and spent considerable time in both talking to people. The reality is that there are too many who can't even see the tip of their nose in front of their faces. And what I mean by that is they don't care about my COLA agenda or keeping small stations open if it means less for them. They want as much as they can get and will shut the doors on you for an extra 25 cents. I talked about greed further back because it stares me in the face every single day. And it's the greed of my own members who care nothing about anything except "When am I getting my pre-funding match back" or "Hey so how much is MY raise going to be next year" 

People don't care about each other today Cargo. Everyone has an agenda and too many of them out there are spitting out BS if they tell you they don't. America is a me me me society and each day I'm not sure which direction it's headed for? Better or worse?

The masses are lead by the leadership. Tentative agreements are reached with NCs and leadership. What the self centered membership votes on is up to the NCs and the leadership. I have two sons currently serving this country in the Marine Corps. I realize there are many who sleep under and take for granted the blanket of protection the few provide. This is the unfortunate reality of our citizens and our members. It is up to the leadership of both to steer them from the path of self destruction. The members can only vote for what is agreed to by their NC. Let's get it right. My hope is the Alliance leadership and NC will be good shepherds regarding the JCBA.

 

[freedom]

As a worker in low of COA state I would be willing to accept less of a raise so that workers in high cost Areas could have a more suitable wage ....but that's just me ..

 

[737823]

Freedom they keep harping on you and the 08 agreement saying you sold out the small stations. Some here have suggested PHX will see cuts and it seems a few would take joy seeing you and your co-workers impacted. Disgraceful.

Josh

 

[AANOTOK]

Freedom they keep harping on you and the 08 agreement saying you sold out the small stations. Some here have suggested PHX will see cuts and it seems a few would take joy seeing you and your co-workers impacted. Disgraceful.

Josh

all you are Josh...

 

[737823]

No people here have suggested PHX will see cuts and it seems some would take joy seeing Freedom impacted. They blame him (as one vote) for ratifying the 08 agreement and selling out the small stations but it was the IAM 141 negotiating committee that reached the agreement and brought it back to the membership. 700 didn't criticize the UA agreement he said the membership ratified it but yet six years later is still going on about the 08 agreement. And certain posters here want to sell out small stations for catering at CLT yet the same people find no issue with that.

Josh

 

[robbedagain]

Josh just so im clear.. i dont want to see anyone lose their jobs ive been there lived it duringthe mid 2000s but the reality is w the merger in full swing Hubs at DFW n LAX they wont need PHX as a hub but cld potentially use it as a focus city. Also while most if not all of us were critical for peeps like freedom for voting for 08 deal they chose the pay over fighting i can only hope they used that past failure to learn from it since the 2014 agreement i have yet to see where posters slam freedom for the past 08 deal its been quieted down.