2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[PHXConx]

A neutral arbitrator is a third party. Not sure why we have to discuss this.  But, the problem is compounded in that it isn't just a third party but after the third party gets selected, the remaining process shitt cans the union and it becomes a 2 party situation.  Sorta like a spouse getting to pick a divorce attorney for his wife but then he has to leave the building.   Remember, after the selection of the arbitrator, the remaining part of that letter is a two party relationship.  The only nouns are "Arbitrator" and "Company".  The only rights are "Company".   Below is the path, for your review and kindly show me where our union or us have any right in all of this.
 
Process:
1. Arbitrator determines any modification to ensure no taxes apply for company [not my words]
2. If Arbitrator can't guarantee modifications would offset the taxes for the affected plan then the company has the right [not my words] to terminate the plan.
3. If a plan is terminated then the arbitrator is empowered to designate [not my words] a new 80% plan.
4. If in the process, the arbitrator hasn't ruled yet, then the Company shall be permitted to implement and can make changes as it considers [not my words] necessary to avoid taxes.
5. Company shall have a reasonable time
 
As you see, the AGC"s are outright lying when they say that the union will be right there negotiating step by step.  The union will have to leave the building like Elvis.  It's in the letter and this will be NON NEGOTIABLE once the arbitrator is picked.  
 
And if you get the 'warm fuzzies' over the initial 90 day 'drop dead' negotiation window, then you might want to see how good that 90 day negotiating window did for those stations that were contracted out at United and pay attention to Brother Delaney's newest update where he has yet another Barbie tantrum saying the company is just "Wrong" to contract out our members because "I think we do a better job than vendors".   Sorry, but when the AGC's and Rich claimed greatness for negotiating sessions that are not longer than 'summer school',  I told folks it was all bull shitt then, like I'm telling you now that the 90 day 'summer school session' negotiations isn't going to do squat in 2018.  We will just have to bare the consequences that's all.  No cap, No nothing.  It's as simple as that.  
 
What I find truly interesting is how folks desperately want the money grab and become single issued.  I get it!  I already know what I'm going to do with the extra cash as well.  But let's not blow smoke up everyone's arse telling them that the union will have any power or authority with modifications or termination of plans once a third party is triggered. K?  And don't get me started on my retirement. 
 
To be sure, if I'm in JAX or any station subject to being contracted out, I vote for this, so I understand yes votes.  If I'm dying with bills and need a short term fix to feed 4 mouths, I get that.  But I'm in my 50's and health care, and pension are front and center with me.   Just respect my no vote, that's all.  I haven't busted any of you or the vast majority who will vote yes.   Will I engage when I hear bull shitt?  Your damn straight I will.

so answer do you want post 2018 non cadillac plan now, that will guarantee the company will not have to pay an excise tax RIGHT NOW...
 
i mean we dont know how much if any.. that plan will go over the federal law mandated cap. it could go over by 500 or it could go over by 10000 if its 500 dollars very little change would be necessary...  in fact could be worked with the insurance company to keep the plan high, to cut the rate... because a little cut in their profits is better than losing the farm so to speak.  
 
so tell me timmy tell us all are you ready to let the company renegotiate all our plans today... to a substandard plan... today... and for the next four years... and to guarantee that there would be no excise tax they aren't going to cut the costs a little but a lot like 10000 or more to insure any changes to the law doesn't affect the negotiated plan
 
so today right now... right now... i know you need repetition we will dealing with your above "nightmare"  or would you rather do it in 2018 where the change may be very tiny and the membership gets to keep their current benefits for at the very least 4 years
 
are you ready to tell the membership that that's worth it?  but having a letter that would keep our current plans... for right now, and the next four years is not and way too much of a risk for right now, and the next four years... and thereafter..
 
id love to know how you would explain why getting rates that we wouldn't need for at 4 years and substandard medical for at least 4 years is worth it, but a letter putting that off for four years isn't, please timmy explain that to me and the rest of the membership here...  
 
explain your "leadership"  madness

 

[PHXConx]

Robbed
If this had been a stand alone only agreement, then we probably wouldn't have brought it out. But the two biggest issues in the survey was 1. Job protection 2. Money. We achieved both of those issues with some other things added as well. It's a good first step to get us to the second step. That's how we look at it.

wow doing what the membership wants theres a concept...  
 
if we did it timmys way we would be negotiating on health care 4 years early losing all our current health care plans, to substandard non cadillac plans, as if that wasnt enough we would be doing it at the expense of all the other things we won, even scope... yea no thanks..
 
thank the membership that we have the current leadership in place and not timmy and his cabal of misfit toys (not that the current leadership isnt without its fair share of faults but there could be far worse people at the helm)

 

[mike33]

Notice: The action verbs.  The union is absolutely eliminated after it selects an arbitrator and the case becomes a 'two party' case with the arbitrator and "Company". 
 
 

All that Bullshit insertions about action verbs?.....The whole company would be under that gun there buddy....! Stop with the doom and gloom already. We got your agenda....OK?

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim the Styrofoam soapbox is broken. You need to find one made of wood.

NEXT.

 

[ograc]

Cry up a river and blame EVERYONE except the people who need to be blamed ...

Membership participation in rallies was PATHETIC ....

Did our MBR rise during these last few years ? Did the planes go out late ? The membership sat on their fat lazy asses watching TV in the break rooms waiting for the company to feed them ...

I'm voting yes because with this completely apathetic group this is the best we will ever get ....

 
You reap what you sow! A disengaged and apathetic work group should not expect much of a harvest. Given the divisions and apathy that runs rampant with this fleet membership; it is a respectable TA. Respectable groundwork as we enter into a JCBA. Anyone, including JN, who thinks they could do better, are welcome to become involved. In the meantime... it's nothing more than the "Monday morning quarterback" syndrome. You are right freedom; the apathy and lack of membership engagement is pathetic. Case in point... the source of the post.     
 

 

[ograc]

think you missed my point 🙁 I'm not jealous, angry, yes --- I see you work for AA and I'm not so sure anyone, At AA or anywhere else for that matter has any idea what this particular group here has been through for the last 15-18 years --- I MEAN NO CLUE !!!!!  The utter devastation placed upon this fleet workforce between the 2 BK's and countless GREEDY CEO's there is NO OTHER GROUP in this industry that has endured what this group has, yes other groups have been through some of what we have, but none have taken the cuts to severity such as we have !!!  You are about to find out just how horribly greedy this Management team is, and will exploit every ounce of juice out of YOU that it can !!!! That being said, the raises that we were supposed to get and did not get !!! well, you are telling the company that it was OK, to blatantly dis-regard your contract and REWARD them with millions of dollars by allowing it to go forward this way !!! That's all I'm saying, I guarantee that if you'd have  been here, endured what we did for as long as we did, your perspective would be quite different !!!! I too don't care if they respect US, but if no one is ever willing to do what they have to do to demand the respect, none of it matters anyway's 
 
Good luck with your Rosy picture outlook -- your working for a different animal now --- and this one doesn't just bite, it devours !!!!!  

 
JN,
Did you really think you would get everything back, that was taken in the previous two bankruptcy agreements, in this contract? One step at a time there brother. It may take 2-3 contracts to regain all that was lost. That's assuming the industry remains profitable. You are correct... the company we have worked for has been demonic in the concessions they have insisted on and achieved in the past. This TA represents the first step in gaining some of the past sacrifices back. It puts us in a position, entering into JCBA talks, with some leverage. Does it make right all the wrongs of the past? No! But it is a step in the right direction. We need to move forward one step at a time. It's a chess game that requires patience. 
 

 

[AANOTOK]

Do you guys get shift differential or did you get it back in this TA?
 
At AA, we get one cent for the second shift and two cents for midnights.
 
Did I mention it was taken away during our "non" bk contract in 2003.

 

[PHXConx]

 
 
The following is true
1. The Company does NOT have to agree with suggestions by the union.  
2. After they select an arbitrator, the Union is not mentioned ever again, nor is there any action on the part of the union afterwards.
3. The Arbitrator is strictly there to determine the whacking to ensure the company is protected from cost.
4. The Arbitrator has to guarantee  TO THE COMPANY that it will not be affected by the taxes.
5. If the Arbitrator can't guarantee, then the Company has the RIGHT to terminate the plan. 
6. If the company can terminate the plan, the the Arbitrator is EMPOWERED to devise a new plan
7. And the company is PERMITTED to implement.
 
 

 
 
 
1.) The company doesn't ever have to agree with the union suggestions, its called negotiations not dictations.
 
2-6)The union is not mentioned again because the arbitration process is already well defined in the CBA.. ARticle 21 i guess you still havent read it, perhaps you should.
 
since its an arbitrator that is chosen by the union and the company and the arbitration process is spelled out in the contract one would think common sense would ensue and that the rest of it would be dictated accordingly... but no you want to paint a completely other picture for your own purposes that the membership recognizes again and again election after election...  
 
And 7.) this process is put into place to force the union to negotiate in good faith, in the off chance you or someother hard headed individual is put into power with the union who would rather fight and at the end of the day get nothing except more reasons to fight... but after all that the membership will be stuck with substandard health care with no negotiations being done... you would negotiate with the company the way the president negotiates with congress do it our way or else... except unlike the president you dont have any power to back up the or else part, no pen, no phone... so you would bet the farm for it all and the membership would be stuck holding the bag.  

 

[psa8979]

FS US/LCC IAM TA CBA is going to pass on 7/18/14 . The glass is have full on 7/21/14. JCN will begin with the IAMTWU Association by law with the MOU . Election by NMB to approve Association  ??? to be determined . Focus needs to be on the issues that WE will face as a combined AAL FS work group. Will there be SOLIDARITY moving forward ? or DIVISION that AAL Management is counting on ? Read IAM-TWU Joint Council Agreement and arm yourself with knowledge and facts. Lock and Load. VOTE ! YES ...

 

[psa8979]

TWU-IAM Joint Council Agreement.  Association . May 9, 2013

 

[freedom]

You reap what you sow! A disengaged and apathetic work group should not expect much of a harvest. Given the divisions and apathy that runs rampant with this fleet membership; it is a respectable TA. Respectable groundwork as we enter into a JCBA. Anyone, including JN, who thinks they could do better, are welcome to become involved. In the meantime... it's nothing more than the "Monday morning quarterback" syndrome. You are right freedom; the apathy and lack of membership engagement is pathetic. Case in point... the source of the post.

Speak for your self, unlike at least 50% of the workforce I abstained from the free food ...

I sat right there as people stuffed their faces and said out loud that they didn't care about solidarity. ...

 

[ograc]

Speak for your self, unlike at least 50% of the workforce I abstained from the free food ...

I sat right there as people stuffed their faces and said out loud that they didn't care about solidarity. ...

 
Let me be clear. The membership will reap what they sow. Not you personally freedom. We are own worst enemy. A divided, unengaged and apathetic workforce. A workforce who feels they are entitled. A workforce who is clueless of the history of the labor movement in this country. When one points a finger... three point back at oneself. This finger pointing and second guessing has to stop. it's time to move forward for the better good.
Lock and Load!
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Do you guys get shift differential or did you get it back in this TA?
 
At AA, we get one cent for the second shift and two cents for midnights.
 
Did I mention it was taken away during our "non" bk contract in 2003.

AANOTOK not sure if I saw it in there contract. It is in the UAL contract though, .53 and .57 cents.

The guys in 03 left it there with the one and two cents basically as a place-mat to hopefully get it back one day.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Let me be clear. The membership will reap what they sow. Not you personally freedom. We are own worst enemy. A divided, unengaged and apathetic workforce. A workforce who feels they are entitled. A workforce who is clueless of the history of the labor movement in this country. When one points a finger... three point back at oneself. This finger pointing and second guessing has to stop. it's time to move forward for the better good.
Lock and Load!
 

SOLIDLY CORRECT!!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

Frontier Airlines ramp workers vote for TWU union representation

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_26125901/frontier-airlines-ramp-workers-vote-twu-union-representation

Well it looks like you guys got one and now our guys got one.

Delta Airlines had better be sweating.