2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[robbedagain]

me thinks DL will become union   just a matter of when 

 

[Black Magic]

I'd say it's safe to say there will never again be a strike from the rampers in the airline industry. The unions and the company are just too friendly with eachother and hold hands nowadays.

 

[psa8979]

robbed . If ATL says Union Yes . Maybe ? Otherwise NEVER ! Vote ! Yes . 7/18/2014 

 

[WeAAsles]

me thinks DL will become union   just a matter of when

We need them so we can raise the bar for everyone.

 

[psa8979]

Black Magic . Strikes will only happen again when US Congress changes RWLA . Don't hold your breath for that to happen any time soon . VOTE ! Yes 7/18/2014

 

[Black Magic]

Black Magic . Strikes will only happen again when US Congress changes RWLA . Don't hold your breath for that to happen any time soon . VOTE ! Yes 7/18/2014

I plan on voting NO regardless..I have no faith in this union or any other to deliver a better ta for this group. All that will happen if everyone votes NO is the iam and company will get back together for fun and rearange all the numbers in the current TA but the bottom line cost to the company will still be the same. It's a lost cause now. So much for lock and load....

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm still keeping my odds on an 83% yes vote. The discontented are always the most vocal on social media sites.

Too much Wampum on the table to pass up.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

 
JN,
Did you really think you would get everything back, that was taken in the previous two bankruptcy agreements, in this contract? One step at a time there brother. It may take 2-3 contracts to regain all that was lost. That's assuming the industry remains profitable. You are correct... the company we have worked for has been demonic in the concessions they have insisted on and achieved in the past. This TA represents the first step in gaining some of the past sacrifices back. It puts us in a position, entering into JCBA talks, with some leverage. Does it make right all the wrongs of the past? No! But it is a step in the right direction. We need to move forward one step at a time. It's a chess game that requires patience. 
 

Your kidding me, right ?????? I've been around plenty long enough to know that this particular group will NEVER get back probably HALF of what we lost in the past, but be realistic here, CARGO -------Doing your math, 2-3 contracts under this catch and stall negotiating concept under the Railway Labor Act will set us out what --- 20 years ?????? not sure about YOU, but WE don't have 20 years !!!!!!!!! This was supposed to be the one    ----- According to the UNION itself (( Section 6  )) that WE, had and will have THE MOST LEVERAGE we will ever have ---- So explain to me, exactly what all that time negotiating with NOW, not only the most profitable airline in the world, but the largest ---- GOT US ?????   Like I said, most of our raises are only bringing us back to where we would have been anyways had the company HONORED our current agreement, and things like the extra weeks vacation are things that other groups have had back for years now !!!! Hell, we didn't even get PROFIT SHARING back ?????????? So yes, when I say that we should have at least been made whole on the company being held responsible for giving us those raises in RETRO, --- I STAND MY GROUND FIRMLY on that, ---- BE realistic,, if you want to wait another 20 years for 2-3 more contracts, then you've already thrown in the towel and given up !!!!!!!! SAD

 

[Tim Nelson]

Your kidding me, right ?????? I've been around plenty long enough to know that this particular group will NEVER get back probably HALF of what we lost in the past, but be realistic here, CARGO -------Doing your math, 2-3 contracts under this catch and stall negotiating concept under the Railway Labor Act will set us out what --- 20 years ?????? not sure about YOU, but WE don't have 20 years !!!!!!!!! This was supposed to be the one    ----- According to the UNION itself (( Section 6  )) that WE, had and will have THE MOST LEVERAGE we will ever have ---- So explain to me, exactly what all that time negotiating with NOW, not only the most profitable airline in the world, but the largest ---- GOT US ?????   Like I said, most of our raises are only bringing us back to where we would have been anyways had the company HONORED our current agreement, and things like the extra weeks vacation are things that other groups have had back for years now !!!! Hell, we didn't even get PROFIT SHARING back ?????????? So yes, when I say that we should have at least been made whole on the company being held responsible for giving us those raises in RETRO, --- I STAND MY GROUND FIRMLY on that, ---- BE realistic,, if you want to wait another 20 years for 2-3 more contracts, then you've already thrown in the towel and given up !!!!!!!! SAD

This contract could have been had in 1 day.  They just went through the motions for 3 years and stopped the pay increases to make folks hungry.  Other than the pay bumps, all the other things they said they were standing their ground on were just mythical. The health care is a huge concern and will cost us dearly.  They didn't bother with the pension.  Those two are very important to me and others in their 50s.  Scope was an even exchange, so that wasn't advanced at all.  8 stations, including Cargo's benefitted, 12 stations lost.  And a couple stations can't get insourced now.  Basically, nothing was achieved at all, and the raises were raises that were owed for the previous years anyways.  Not really sure what the negotiators were doing in 3 years.  And as far as the money, only Topped out really got much.  Everyone else got a few quarters to rub together over 3 years.  Toss in the health care tsunami and this is another cost negative contract.  I could understand a cost negative contract when a company is losing a billion a year but when a company is making a billion a quarter, this is an abomination.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'd say it's safe to say there will never again be a strike from the rampers in the airline industry. The unions and the company are just too friendly with eachother and hold hands nowadays.

The union leadership doesn't believe in anything other than the reality that Corporate America tells them. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

I plan on voting NO regardless..I have no faith in this union or any other to deliver a better ta for this group. All that will happen if everyone votes NO is the iam and company will get back together for fun and rearange all the numbers in the current TA but the bottom line cost to the company will still be the same. It's a lost cause now. So much for lock and load....

This TA was cost negative. It wasn't even a gain.

 

[Tim Nelson]

so answer do you want post 2018 non cadillac plan now, that will guarantee the company will not have to pay an excise tax RIGHT NOW...
 
i mean we dont know how much if any.. that plan will go over the federal law mandated cap. it could go over by 500 or it could go over by 10000 if its 500 dollars very little change would be necessary...  in fact could be worked with the insurance company to keep the plan high, to cut the rate... because a little cut in their profits is better than losing the farm so to speak.  
 
so tell me timmy tell us all are you ready to let the company renegotiate all our plans today... to a substandard plan... today... and for the next four years... and to guarantee that there would be no excise tax they aren't going to cut the costs a little but a lot like 10000 or more to insure any changes to the law doesn't affect the negotiated plan
 
so today right now... right now... i know you need repetition we will dealing with your above "nightmare"  or would you rather do it in 2018 where the change may be very tiny and the membership gets to keep their current benefits for at the very least 4 years
 
are you ready to tell the membership that that's worth it?  but having a letter that would keep our current plans... for right now, and the next four years is not and way too much of a risk for right now, and the next four years... and thereafter..
 
id love to know how you would explain why getting rates that we wouldn't need for at 4 years and substandard medical for at least 4 years is worth it, but a letter putting that off for four years isn't, please timmy explain that to me and the rest of the membership here...  
 
explain your "leadership"  madness

You just don't read.   I actually made it easy for you and brought the language right here in front of you.  Kindly show us anywhere where the company has to agree with the union over any of this?  You keep saying that the health care letter protects our members from future cuts but the letter is a creation that protects the company and terminates your plans if an arbitrator can't guarantee management.  You also seem to be delusional about the arbitrator and how the arbitrator has to consider the union's stance.  That, sir, is incorrect.  Once the arbitrator is selected, the arbitrator doesn't consider anything the union said and the only scope of the decision is to determine how much pain fleet service will have to pony up.  That's the question.  If the arbitrator can't guarantee to the company that such tax cost can't protect the company then YOUR PLAN WILL BE TERMINATED.  It's in the language and there is NOTHING you or the union can do about it.  
 
What would have been nice is if the negotiators actually negotiated protections for us, like a cap as they did at United and elsewhere.  Waiving any caps means that when 2018 happens, the cost will have no ceiling.
 
Everything else you said was not really worth conversing about since it was just opinion and babble from you. Sorry.

 

[Tim Nelson]

All that Bullshit insertions about action verbs?.....The whole company would be under that gun there buddy....! Stop with the doom and gloom already. We got your agenda....OK?

The only gloom and doom is the contract which I pasted.  Yes, it is gloom and doom and it has nothing to do with my opinion.  You might ought to try reading the contract for once instead of falling over your money grab.  This is a cost negative contract.

 

[roabilly]

I'm still keeping my odds on an 83% yes vote. The discontented are always the most vocal on social media sites.

Too much Wampum on the table to pass up.

I’m going to project an 87% YES vote -- This figure takes into consideration that the faux Airline Forums Nelson clones (when combined) equal only ONE VOTE! 

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

In fairness to Jimmy Neutron, you do have a vested interest in this TA passing.  You work in MIA and you will be able to do US AIRWAYS work if this TA passes.  Never mind that you are rightfully anxious about starting joint talks.

Yea Tim,we're all salivating at the prospect of a handful of Airbus freeloads.