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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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Quite optimistic there WeAAsles. I personally don't think there is a chance in hell that AA, the industry or the market place will ever allow a "baggage handler" to make $29.00 - $30.00 an hour. Call me pessimistic, but I just don't see it happening.
 
Harry Callahan said:
I'm shocked NOT rotflmao.
Harry
What did I say my priority from day one was ?

SCOPE

I feel that jobs are protected with this new contract, to me that's even more important than the money ....
 
AANOTOK said:
Quite optimistic there WeAAsles. I personally don't think there is a chance in hell that AA, the industry or the market place will ever allow a "baggage handler" to make $29.00 - $30.00 an hour. Call me pessimistic, but I just don't see it happening.
AANOTOK that $30.00 was the CC rate. And why not? What did people top out at in the 70's, 80's? Inflation goes up and at the moment from the way it looks the company has the long term ability to pay a better rate. Something that wasn't available from 2001 till now.

Of course only time will tell what can happen in the future?
 
WeAAsles said:
I'll give you guys an individual perspective of how I'm looking at the future since eventually we will all be under one CBA. UAL in 2018 will be at $26.64 per hour. I think we can top that by at least .50 by then? So that will make it $27.00 in 2018 (Right now I'm at $22.50) I'm currently putting 20% into my 401 and the company matches 5.5% of that. So I'm putting in $12.000 per year right now. I'm currently not a Crew Chief (Lead) and our CC's get paid an extra $2.00 per hour on top of the base. So in 2018 I expect to be making $29.00 per hour (Because I'll be a CC by then) So also $30.00 per hour should be reasonable by decades end.

I'm currently 49 YO. By 2018 I want to be putting the equivalent of $10.00 per hour into my 401 ($20,000) not counting whatever the company will be matching by then? I want to retire at 62. So doing those calculations I just made will put $180,000 into my 401 for the last 9 years not counting the match and compounded market growth?

And no my equations don't factor in the unknown of inflation or wage increases in the next decade so adjustments can be made.

So just to expand on my last post though this is why I could give a damn if the company respects me or not because when I walk out the door in the end to go and hit golf balls in the tropics, I'll be the one who get's the last laugh.

This is my personal perspective of things.
+1
 
As far as wage, what you mentioned isn't bizarre. And you may even be able to loosen up and chow down some of those 600 calorie island drinks if you weren't so concerned about your beach bod at 49.  Hang on to 49 for as long as you can!
 
WeAAsles said:
Jimmy I highlighted two areas you wrote in RED because what I see is two things. One is jealousy and the other is emotion. Neither one of those things (as understandable as they are) pay your bills.  No money isn't everything. People seem to have to demand that respect. Personally I could care less if the company I work for respects me as long as they pay me! So let's talk pay.

Immediately upon ratification you're getting $320.00 more per month (Electric and cable bill) In September it's $400.00 per month (Electric, cable and phone bill) September 2015 comes out to around $560.00 per month or so (Electric, cable, phone and gas bill) End of contract 2017 (If no changes due to JCBA) 3 years from now by the way. Roughly $720.00 per month (Possible Mortgage or Rent payment)

So from what you wrote you're going to vote no for two reasons? #1 you're angry and #2 your jealous. Well #1 who's not angry? But your anger again doesn't pay those bills that won't stop coming and going up. And you're jealous because someone else is getting the same $1500.00 as you. I have 19 years seniority and I'd say SO WHAT. 

Now of course you have your right to your opinions and your vote but personally I think you have your priorities a little out of whack. So you can go ahead and say no and give the company your big middle finger (They won't care) and maybe you'll do much much better the second time (not gonna happen) and maybe it won't take too long to get the next offer? (Who knows) Or you can take a different road and begin to move forward?

Your choice of course. 
think you missed my point 🙁 I'm not jealous, angry, yes --- I see you work for AA and I'm not so sure anyone, At AA or anywhere else for that matter has any idea what this particular group here has been through for the last 15-18 years --- I MEAN NO CLUE !!!!!  The utter devastation placed upon this fleet workforce between the 2 BK's and countless GREEDY CEO's there is NO OTHER GROUP in this industry that has endured what this group has, yes other groups have been through some of what we have, but none have taken the cuts to severity such as we have !!!  You are about to find out just how horribly greedy this Management team is, and will exploit every ounce of juice out of YOU that it can !!!! That being said, the raises that we were supposed to get and did not get !!! well, you are telling the company that it was OK, to blatantly dis-regard your contract and REWARD them with millions of dollars by allowing it to go forward this way !!! That's all I'm saying, I guarantee that if you'd have  been here, endured what we did for as long as we did, your perspective would be quite different !!!! I too don't care if they respect US, but if no one is ever willing to do what they have to do to demand the respect, none of it matters anyway's 
 
Good luck with your Rosy picture outlook -- your working for a different animal now --- and this one doesn't just bite, it devours !!!!!  
 
Really?

You didn't loose 46% of the workforce like what happened to M&R in bankruptcy part 2.
 
Jimmy Neutron said:
think you missed my point 🙁 I'm not jealous, angry, yes --- I see you work for AA and I'm not so sure anyone, At AA or anywhere else for that matter has any idea what this particular group here has been through for the last 15-18 years --- I MEAN NO CLUE !!!!!  The utter devastation placed upon this fleet workforce between the 2 BK's and countless GREEDY CEO's there is NO OTHER GROUP in this industry that has endured what this group has, yes other groups have been through some of what we have, but none have taken the cuts to severity such as we have !!!  You are about to find out just how horribly greedy this Management team is, and will exploit every ounce of juice out of YOU that it can !!!! That being said, the raises that we were supposed to get and did not get !!! well, you are telling the company that it was OK, to blatantly dis-regard your contract and REWARD them with millions of dollars by allowing it to go forward this way !!! That's all I'm saying, I guarantee that if you'd have  been here, endured what we did for as long as we did, your perspective would be quite different !!!! I too don't care if they respect US, but if no one is ever willing to do what they have to do to demand the respect, none of it matters anyway's 
 
Good luck with your Rosy picture outlook -- your working for a different animal now --- and this one doesn't just bite, it devours !!!!!  
Lost my house and my wife back in 05 brother. Laid off twice in 01 and 03. Not to mention a few other sorted details.

Continuing to look in the rear view mirror to see all the carnage behind you just may cause you to crash into a tree in front of you. Better to keep your eyes on the road and see where you're heading today. JMO.
 
700UW said:
Really?

You didn't loose 46% of the workforce like what happened to M&R in bankruptcy part 2.
No one's personal misery has any more value than the guy standing next to you 700. It's all up to our own personal interpretation.
 
Jimmy Neutron said:
think you missed my point 🙁 I'm not jealous, angry, yes --- I see you work for AA and I'm not so sure anyone, At AA or anywhere else for that matter has any idea what this particular group here has been through for the last 15-18 years --- I MEAN NO CLUE !!!!!  The utter devastation placed upon this fleet workforce between the 2 BK's and countless GREEDY CEO's there is NO OTHER GROUP in this industry that has endured what this group has, yes other groups have been through some of what we have, but none have taken the cuts to severity such as we have !!!  You are about to find out just how horribly greedy this Management team is, and will exploit every ounce of juice out of YOU that it can !!!! That being said, the raises that we were supposed to get and did not get !!! well, you are telling the company that it was OK, to blatantly dis-regard your contract and REWARD them with millions of dollars by allowing it to go forward this way !!! That's all I'm saying, I guarantee that if you'd have  been here, endured what we did for as long as we did, your perspective would be quite different !!!! I too don't care if they respect US, but if no one is ever willing to do what they have to do to demand the respect, none of it matters anyway's 
 
Good luck with your Rosy picture outlook -- your working for a different animal now --- and this one doesn't just bite, it devours !!!!!  
Hey Jimmy:
I think it's time to retire. You've more than done your time. I'm still hearing the horror stories. Retirement is awesome.
Harry
 
freedom said:
What did I say my priority from day one was ?

SCOPE

I feel that jobs are protected with this new contract, to me that's even more important than the money ....
The SCOPE is a wonderful thing, problem is tho, that it does not carry over into the joint agreement  !!! if it did, then you would have what you want !! sorry to break that news to ya !!!!!
 
WeAAsles said:
AANOTOK that $30.00 was the CC rate. And why not? What did people top out at in the 70's, 80's? Inflation goes up and at the moment from the way it looks the company has the long term ability to pay a better rate. Something that wasn't available from 2001 till now.

Of course only time will tell what can happen in the future?
Like I said before, I'm pretty sure that you have NO IDEA what your dealing with here !!! but you WILL find out soon enough !!!!
 
700UW said:
Really? You didn't loose 46% of the workforce like what happened to M&R in bankruptcy part 2.
700, I was referring to FLEET GROUPS in this industry !!! I am on the Fleet thread, right ??
 
Harry Callahan said:
Hey Jimmy:
I think it's time to retire. You've more than done your time. I'm still hearing the horror stories. Retirement is awesome.
Harry
I would LOVE nothing more Harry, and I know it's treating YOU WELL, very happy to see some of US getting to leave !!! But being 51 with over 30 years --- the math just doesn't add up for me unfortunately !!! 
 
WeAAsles said:
Lost my house and my wife back in 05 brother. Laid off twice in 01 and 03. Not to mention a few other sorted details.

Continuing to look in the rear view mirror to see all the carnage behind you just may cause you to crash into a tree in front of you. Better to keep your eyes on the road and see where you're heading today. JMO.
In fairness to Jimmy Neutron, you do have a vested interest in this TA passing.  You work in MIA and you will be able to do US AIRWAYS work if this TA passes.  Never mind that you are rightfully anxious about starting joint talks.
 
Jimmy Neutron said:
The SCOPE is a wonderful thing, problem is tho, that it does not carry over into the joint agreement  !!! if it did, then you would have what you want !! sorry to break that news to ya !!!!!
 
Like I said before, I'm pretty sure that you have NO IDEA what your dealing with here !!! but you WILL find out soon enough !!!!
 
700, I was referring to FLEET GROUPS in this industry !!! I am on the Fleet thread, right ??
 
I would LOVE nothing more Harry, and I know it's treating YOU WELL, very happy to see some of US getting to leave !!! But being 51 with over 30 years --- the math just doesn't add up for me unfortunately !!! 
+1
 
Tim Nelson said:
In fairness to Jimmy Neutron, you do have a vested interest in this TA passing.  You work in MIA and you will be able to do US AIRWAYS work if this TA passes.  Never mind that you are rightfully anxious about starting joint talks.
Uh yes Timmy. I have a nefarious agenda that I am trying to propel. Even after I asked that question the other day that goes against my mission. I must be absolutely deviously brilliant or plain stupid?
 
[SIZE=10pt]                                                                                  ATTACHMENT C[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Mr. Richard Delaney[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]President and Directing General Chairman[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]IAMAW District Lodge 141[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]1771 Commerce Drive[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Elk Grove Village, IL 60007[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]Dear Mr. Delaney:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]This letter will confirm our agreement regarding the application of excise tax or other penalty included in The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) or any excise tax or penalty which may replace the PPACA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]In the event the Company determines that any of the PPO 100, 90 or 80 percent plan design options provided for in this Agreement (each a “Plan”) would be or become subject to an excise tax or other penalty under applicable law (and thus become an “Affected Plan”), the Company will meet and confer in good faith in order to reach an agreement with the Union concerning the minimum modification or modifications to the affected Plan necessary to avoid application of the excise tax or other penalty.  The Company shall provide to the Union information that the Union reasonably requests, including actuarial reports, necessary for the Union’s design and consideration of such modifications.  Unless otherwise agreed, any agreed modification shall become effective at the time the excise tax or penalty would become applicable in respect of the Affected Plan (the “Affected Plan Date”).[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]If the Company and the Union are unable to agree on modifications necessary to avoid the application of the excise tax or other penalty on the Affected Plan within ninety (90) days after the initial meeting, an arbitrator shall immediately be selected in accordance with the Collective Bargaining Agreement to determine the modifications to the design of the Affected Plan that will become applicable.   The authority of the arbitrator is expressly limited to establishing those modifications to the design of the Affected Plan that will ensure that no excise tax or other penalty will apply.   If the arbitrator determines that no reasonably practical modification to the Affected Plan can guarantee that no excise tax or other penalty will apply, the Company shall have the right to terminate the availability of the Affected Plan to the Fleet Service employees.  If, under the preceding sentence, the Company has terminated or would have the right to terminate the availability to the Fleet Service employees of all three Plans, the arbitrator will be empowered to designate an alternative plan design (a “New Plan”) that is available from the Company provider and that replicates the provisions of the 80 percent plan to the greatest possible extent without causing the New Plan to become subject to any excise tax or other penalty.  In the event that the penalty or excise tax is otherwise owed for any reason, notwithstanding any contrary provision of the law, the Company shall be permitted to implement such modifications to the design of the Affected Plan as it considers to be necessary to avoid the excise tax or penalty.  The Company shall have a reasonable period of time following the issuance of the arbitrator’s determination to implement the New Plan.  Notwithstanding the foregoing, the provisions of this Letter of Agreement shall not be effective if, after the effective date of this Agreement, the Company enters into any new or amended collective bargaining agreement having a term of three (3) years or more with any union group that does not contain a provision substantial similar to this Letter of Agreement.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]In the event a plan is modified pursuant to this Letter of Agreement (LOA), employees will be afforded the opportunity through an open enrollment period to elect a different plan, prior to the implementation of any modified plan. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Sincerely,[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]E. Allen Hemenway[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Vice President[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Labor Relations[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Agree and concur:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Mr. Richard Delaney[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]President and Directing General Chairman[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]IAMAW District Lodge 141[/SIZE]
 
Tim Nelson said:
[SIZE=10pt]                                                                                  ATTACHMENT C[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Mr. Richard Delaney[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]President and Directing General Chairman[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]IAMAW District Lodge 141[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]1771 Commerce Drive[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Elk Grove Village, IL 60007[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]Dear Mr. Delaney:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]This letter will confirm our agreement regarding the application of excise tax or other penalty included in The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) or any excise tax or penalty which may replace the PPACA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]In the event the Company determines that any of the PPO 100, 90 or 80 percent plan design options provided for in this Agreement (each a “Plan”) would be or become subject to an excise tax or other penalty under applicable law (and thus become an “Affected Plan”), the Company will meet and confer in good faith in order to reach an agreement with the Union concerning the minimum modification or modifications to the affected Plan necessary to avoid application of the excise tax or other penalty.  The Company shall provide to the Union information that the Union reasonably requests, including actuarial reports, necessary for the Union’s design and consideration of such modifications.  Unless otherwise agreed, any agreed modification shall become effective at the time the excise tax or penalty would become applicable in respect of the Affected Plan (the “Affected Plan Date”).[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]If the Company and the Union are unable to agree on modifications necessary to avoid the application of the excise tax or other penalty on the Affected Plan within ninety (90) days after the initial meeting, an arbitrator shall immediately be selected in accordance with the Collective Bargaining Agreement to determine the modifications to the design of the Affected Plan that will become applicable.   The authority of the arbitrator is expressly limited to establishing those modifications to the design of the Affected Plan that will ensure that no excise tax or other penalty will apply.   If the arbitrator determines that no reasonably practical modification to the Affected Plan can guarantee that no excise tax or other penalty will apply, the Company shall have the right to terminate the availability of the Affected Plan to the Fleet Service employees.  If, under the preceding sentence, the Company has terminated or would have the right to terminate the availability to the Fleet Service employees of all three Plans, the arbitrator will be empowered to designate an alternative plan design (a “New Plan”) that is available from the Company provider and that replicates the provisions of the 80 percent plan to the greatest possible extent without causing the New Plan to become subject to any excise tax or other penalty.  In the event that the penalty or excise tax is otherwise owed for any reason, notwithstanding any contrary provision of the law, the Company shall be permitted to implement such modifications to the design of the Affected Plan as it considers to be necessary to avoid the excise tax or penalty.  The Company shall have a reasonable period of time following the issuance of the arbitrator’s determination to implement the New Plan.  Notwithstanding the foregoing, the provisions of this Letter of Agreement shall not be effective if, after the effective date of this Agreement, the Company enters into any new or amended collective bargaining agreement having a term of three (3) years or more with any union group that does not contain a provision substantial similar to this Letter of Agreement.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]In the event a plan is modified pursuant to this Letter of Agreement (LOA), employees will be afforded the opportunity through an open enrollment period to elect a different plan, prior to the implementation of any modified plan. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Sincerely,[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]E. Allen Hemenway[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Vice President[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Labor Relations[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Agree and concur:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Mr. Richard Delaney[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]President and Directing General Chairman[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]IAMAW District Lodge 141[/SIZE]
Notice: The action verbs.  The union is absolutely eliminated after it selects an arbitrator and the case becomes a 'two party' case with the arbitrator and "Company". 
 
Noun Verb Process
1. Company determines
2. Union offers suggestions over 90 days
3. Company refuses or accepts union suggestions but is not obligated to agree.
4. Arbitrator is selected.
5. If Arbitrator establishes modifications to health care plans to ensure against taxes then stop here.  If not, then go to next step.
6. Arbitrator determines no modifications can guarantee that the excise tax won't apply
7. Company has right to terminate
8. Arbitrator empowered to devise alternative "New Plan"
9. Company shall be permitted to implement "New Plan"
10. Company shall have a reasonable time.
 
The following is true
1. The Company does NOT have to agree with suggestions by the union.  
2. After they select an arbitrator, the Union is not mentioned ever again, nor is there any action on the part of the union afterwards.
3. The Arbitrator is strictly there to determine the whacking to ensure the company is protected from cost.
4. The Arbitrator has to guarantee  TO THE COMPANY that it will not be affected by the taxes.
5. If the Arbitrator can't guarantee, then the Company has the RIGHT to terminate the plan. 
6. If the company can terminate the plan, the the Arbitrator is EMPOWERED to devise a new plan
7. And the company is PERMITTED to implement.
 
Nowhere does the arbitrator consider the union, and this isn't a case where the arbitrator is there to rule in the union favor or company favor.  The arbitrator is simply there to protect the company from these cost and to guarantee any cost cutting will keep the Company from the tax burden.   Again, the union has no rights to this process after the process is triggered and the arbitrator is selected to make guarantee to the company regarding the excise taxes.
 
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