2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[IAM Member Here]

There are 12 stations where they can cross utilize in this agreement. The t/a states it's where both the IAM & TWU are both on the ground. And I have to disagree with you and Tim. I think the best way you can preserve IAM work is to assure everyone is going to be there. You guys that think they are just going to pay you and let you set on your lap tops, are dreaming. And even if that were true and you get bored. I'm sure you could ask management if you could volunteer to go help out and they would let ya. If you are serious and really think it's possible to just sit and do nothing.

I think you missed the point completely.  Many live on overtime.  I don't think anyone will be sitting around but it gives management more covering opportunities and it can have the chance to cut out the duplicate work as well.  I think it will mean no overtime or maybe loss of certain shifts or loss of transfer bags if they do that.  The work is already lost, it's just not the bodies that are lost.   So, as far as my question,  that means that this could involve CLT as well provided TWU members are on the ground in CLT at some future point.

 

[charlie Brown]

I think you missed the point completely.  Many live on overtime.  I don't think anyone will be sitting around but it gives management more covering opportunities and it can have the chance to cut out the duplicate work as well.  I think it will mean no overtime or maybe loss of certain shifts or loss of transfer bags if they do that.  The work is already lost, it's just not the bodies that are lost.   So, as far as my question,  that means that this could involve CLT as well provided TWU members are on the ground in CLT at some future point.

Not true on overtime. The TWU guys will already have work to do. This language was out into place to allow them to park aircraft at any gate. You will more than likely see the TWU get a loa of the same language. And TWU isn't on the ground in clt. So no to your question. AA is down to 17 stations. Clt is not one of them as you know.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I think you missed the point completely.  Many live on overtime.  I don't think anyone will be sitting around but it gives management more covering opportunities and it can have the chance to cut out the duplicate work as well.  I think it will mean no overtime or maybe loss of certain shifts or loss of transfer bags if they do that.  The work is already lost, it's just not the bodies that are lost.   So, as far as my question,  that means that this could involve CLT as well provided TWU members are on the ground in CLT at some future point.

ORD has been in hiring mode. We have several probationaries who could be let go after ratification. You are absolutely right about the overtime.  There are two key transfer points and there isn't anything in the contract that prohibits the company from starting the synergies immediately by consolidating due to cross utilization.  Why have two bag rooms??  Management is always wanting to cut cost through the synergies of the merger, and cross utilization is a very big grab for ole AH in accomplishing synergies before its time. 
 
They also have a late night shift that could park and work out late arrival from PHX.  Again, management could eliminate the OT that exist, and then as folks retire or transfer, etc., just continue to take advantage of the 'work sharing' program if it wanted.  Certainly, it won't be our exclusive work anymore.  I hope Charlie is correct and that management just won't bother with cross utilization other than the occasional parking of aircraft but that's not the exclusivity of cross utilization. The cross utilized stations could see a limit on transfers into the station as well if management wants to take advantage of the synergies created by cross utilization. 

 

[Solidarity]

You realize that leverage was lessoned though with the cross utilization clause which was what ole AH got in exchange?
I think he has the twu where he likes them and will use that contract against us and also let them flow over to our work at cross utilized stations that give him some good seamlessness at many combined stations. On the usairways side im sure he will have some discomfort by having to keep the few small stations opened that fell below 56 flights a week but with the union agreeing to no insourcing of expanding stations like iah, along with the cross utilization, im sure ole AH can tolerate the neutrality of the exchange without bothering on improving the twuor iam contract in joint negotiations unless he gets something in return. Toss in that he nailed down his protections against any health care risk. Why would he bother with a joint unless it was another cost neutral contract?

Tim, not for nothing but AH isn't in the best of health these days. Also........wasn't it Mr. Glass that REALLY got this T/A finalized with the IAM? From what I heard, AH was relegated to second chair during the last 4-5 months. The NEW American wants these synergies and is willing to work with the IAM and TWU to achieve them. Appears to be win/win

 

[charlie Brown]

ORD has been in hiring mode. We have several probationaries who could be let go after ratification. You are absolutely right about the overtime.  There are two key transfer points and there isn't anything in the contract that prohibits the company from starting the synergies immediately by consolidating due to cross utilization.  Why have two bag rooms??  Management is always wanting to cut cost through the synergies of the merger, and cross utilization is a very big grab for ole AH in accomplishing synergies before its time. 
 
They also have a late night shift that could park and work out late arrival from PHX.  Again, management could eliminate the OT that exist, and then as folks retire or transfer, etc., just continue to take advantage of the 'work sharing' program if it wanted.  Certainly, it won't be our exclusive work anymore.  I hope Charlie is correct and that management just won't bother with cross utilization other than the occasional parking of aircraft but that's not the exclusivity of cross utilization. The cross utilized stations could see a limit on transfers into the station as well if management wants to take advantage of the synergies created by cross utilization.

So let me make sure I understand this. Informer and you believe that OL AL as you like to call him is realizing synergies by giving all US guys a raise in ord, then letting them sit and do nothing, while he brings in extra TWU guys at lets say base 10 bucks an hour just to do our work while we sit there, when he already has the right to hire PT people now for the ramp anywhere if he wanted to cut the overtime. Yes? And it is your belief that he is realizing synergies by doing this?? Good Grief!! Now I'm confused in what the word synergies mean. Lol

 

[700UW]

If you base your lifestyle on Overtime then you have financial issues.
 
OT can dry up at anytime.
 
And you are running for AGC timmie and you promote working overtime?
 
Guess you are not a good union member as the IAM constitution says you should discourage the work of overtime.
 
And you shouldnt be working OT when there are members on layoff.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I think he has the twu where he likes them and will use that contract against us and also let them flow over to our work at cross utilized stations that give him some good seamlessness at many combined stations.

You should talk to the boys in ORD before spouting gloom and doom about cross utilization...I know they are short in ORD, and in LGA we are so short, we can't cover our own operation without overtime, much less go work US flights should that ever come up.

 

[WeAAsles]

So let me make sure I understand this. Informer and you believe that OL AL as you like to call him is realizing synergies by giving all US guys a raise in ord, then letting them sit and do nothing, while he brings in extra TWU guys at lets say base 10 bucks an hour just to do our work while we sit there, when he already has the right to hire PT people now for the ramp anywhere if he wanted to cut the overtime. Yes? And it is your belief that he is realizing synergies by doing this?? Good Grief!! Now I'm confused in what the word synergies mean. Lol

CB I have to ask this question in the interest of fairness to the TA and items that may not have been considered in regards to cross utilization. And also this comment we can be assured has already been considered by the company so I very much doubt I'm giving them ideas.

Taking ORD or MIA as the example (This would not occur in stations where you have a massive presence over our side) If they were to hire on our side at the $10 per hour (roughly) rate could they say knock your guys back to PT since they are mostly at the top rate to save some money on the work? And of course no one will be sitting around doing nothing. You'll do work in your scheduled shift.

Again something like this would only happen in a very few select cities, basically where we already have you severely outnumbered like in our hubs.

Do your members still maintain system bumping rights if they were knocked down in their status and did not want to remain in their station as PT?

Now realistically I also don't believe the company will do this though because I think (hopefully not naively) they are trying to rebuild a relationship with their workforce and this would be a massive and frankly stupid blow to trying to achieve that. But otherwise too the tradeoff of your new scope language for cross utilization will benefit far more members than it will hurt and the majority always has to be considered in negotiations even though some don't like or can't understand that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So let me make sure I understand this. Informer and you believe that OL AL as you like to call him is realizing synergies by giving all US guys a raise in ord, then letting them sit and do nothing, while he brings in extra TWU guys at lets say base 10 bucks an hour just to do our work while we sit there, when he already has the right to hire PT people now for the ramp anywhere if he wanted to cut the overtime. Yes? And it is your belief that he is realizing synergies by doing this?? Good Grief!! Now I'm confused in what the word synergies mean. Lol

huh?
Nobody is going to be sitting anywhere. Cross utilization provides synergies. End of discussion.
Moving forward, it appears you are hopeful that parker wants a joint contract rather soon and is willing to work with both unions. If so, then the cross utilization is fairly temporary. I hope you are correct because a joint contract, and a willing management, will really be a win win and boost morale and maybe for the first time be proud to work for this company.

Management has historically been combative here. I think United management is headed down the wrong path and i hope american management has seen the error of uniteds ways.

 

[700UW]

If the company didnt want a JCBA tim, then why did they insist in a 30 day window after ratification for JCBA negotiations?

 

[Tim Nelson]

CB I have to ask this question in the interest of fairness to the TA and items that may not have been considered in regards to cross utilization. And also this comment we can be assured has already been considered by the company so I very much doubt I'm giving them ideas.
Taking ORD or MIA as the example (This would not occur in stations where you have a massive presence over our side) If they were to hire on our side at the $10 per hour (roughly) rate could they say knock your guys back to PT since they are mostly at the top rate to save some money on the work? And of course no one will be sitting around doing nothing. You'll do work in your scheduled shift.
Again something like this would only happen in a very few select cities, basically where we already have you severely outnumbered like in our hubs.
Do your members still maintain system bumping rights if they were knocked down in their status and did not want to remain in their station as PT?
Now realistically I also don't believe the company will do this though because I think (hopefully not naively) they are trying to rebuild a relationship with their workforce and this would be a massive and frankly stupid blow to trying to achieve that. But otherwise too the tradeoff of your new scope language for cross utilization will benefit far more members than it will hurt and the majority always has to be considered in negotiations even though some don't like or can't understand that.

our mrmbers cany be displaced to part time due to cross U.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and before Tim comes on here being the big bad protector of the small station. I've always had a bit of a conflict in my mind about them. I hear them constantly say that the hub people don't give a damn about them. Well the reality is they don't give a damn about the hub people either. Many people in hubs did not start out there. I for one went to DFW to chase Full Time and to be able to afford to not have to live with my Mother at 32 (Truth) Others went there for the same reason or because there stations closed and they had no choice. Basically they made the hard choice or choices when the moment came up.

I've always been a proponent of COLA's for certain cities where people live to be able to give people the choice to stay where they want to stay or live. A guy in CMH just should not be making the same wage as a guy in LGA. And the same thing goes for people in DFW, TUL, CLT and PHX over MIA, JFK, ORD and PHL.

I honestly believe if we had thought about COLA's 20 years ago we would have a lot more cities staffed than we do today and maybe we wouldn't have to continually worry about the company wanting to come after them as they would be cost effective to maintain and keep. 

I have a buddy from MEM who during the BK told me he would have taken a paycut to remain in his home. He was never given that option and now he's just another one of too many commuters I know and talk to every day.

Food for thought.

 

[WeAAsles]

our mrmbers cany be displaced to part time due to cross U.

Is that something I missed in the writing Tim? If so then I'm absolutely glad to be corrected.

 

[Tim Nelson]

If you base your lifestyle on Overtime then you have financial issues.
 
OT can dry up at anytime.
 
And you are running for AGC timmie and you promote working overtime?
 
Guess you are not a good union member as the IAM constitution says you should discourage the work of overtime.
 
And you shouldnt be working OT when there are members on layoff.

I very seldom work overtime but in the context of the contract i very much do support overtime due to the prescence of mandatory overtime if nobody wants it. And in a cross utilized station i would support overtime even more prior to encouraging other unions to do our work. Nobody is laid off here and i have no problem with those working overtime.
Nobody should say otherwise until they provide better wages and get mandatory overtime out of the contract but that isnt happening.

 

[700UW]

But WeAA, the guy in an outstation does the same job as the hub employees and probably more.
 
Yes the expensive cities should have a rider, at one point Piedmont, and UA had riders at certain stations.
 
But where the unions and its member fail it is, the real enemy is the express carriers and vendors.
 
If the unions made a big push to organize the Express Carriers, Ground Handling companies and MROs and brought their wages up, it would bring mainline pay up.
 
That is where unions fail.