Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[T5towbar]

Kev what do you think of the districts actions to only allow one day for voting? Seems they are looking to capitalize on apathy and voter suppression to get this POS ratified. To me that's inexcusable. Both businesses-the IAM and UAL have a mutual interest in seeing this thing ratified ASAP.

Josh

Yup.
That's what there banking on............
Somethings rotten here. You had a mail-in for the first TA. You broke precedent once saying that you have to go to a lodge and vote. Surely an election as important as this (with new members who aren't even duespayers yet), an exception can be made again. You are talking about two separate groups, two separate companies and cultures. You have remote agents who haven't been even assigned a local lodge yet.

If you did it once, surely you can do it again. Or least have multiple options. or ways to vote. Or an absentee ballot. This better be discussed at the upcoming road show. I know for a fact that being at EWR, there is only one place that is centrally located (almost walking distance) where members can vote. I hope that the use that place because they came there for the last "road show".

 

[cltrat]

Yup.
That's what there banking on............
Somethings rotten here. You had a mail-in for the first TA. You broke precedent once saying that you have to go to a lodge and vote. Surely an election as important as this (with new members who aren't even duespayers yet), an exception can be made again. You are talking about two separate groups, two separate companies and cultures. You have remote agents who haven't been even assigned a local lodge yet.

If you did it once, surely you can do it again.

I agree T5 that it's always been done that way is a copout and certainly doesnt mean it's right

 

[Tim Nelson]

Seems that TA2 has a new clause where the union leadership will go in and try to limit the membership damage of no scope by placing a provision in TA2 that allows the union to outbid swissport or air willy if the company cries outsourcing. Then after the wages/benefits get slashed, apparently the station will vote on it and if 60% vote yes, then the lower wages and lower benefits will be applied. I assume this will also affect the hubs with express work. Hang on for a ride because this is the only contract where $24 does NOT mean $24

If they negotiated properly the first time, they wouldn't need to go in and renegotiate.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev
Do u have a copy of the grandfather clause (i think it was that rj8 language ) nwa had in the contract prior to bankruptcy that gave all of the outstations permanent grandfather rights to stay in their station, even as vendors worked as part of their team on each flight?
I remember the proyections protecting the iam143 members shifts and start yimes againsy the encroaching vendors. If you have that old contracy, can u copy and paste yhat clause? I have it but its up in the attic and the ole knees arent too fond of climbing up there and searching for it if i dont have to.

Is this the article you're looking for?

"RJ85 Layoff Protection: RJ85 Layoff protection is intended to apply at those stations at which (i) Northwest Airlines currently operates jet aircraft (ii)all such Northwest jet service is subsequently discontinued, and (iii) a Northwest Airlink carrier operates RJ85 aircraft at such station. In that event, it is intended that the Northwest customer service agents or supervisors or equipment service employees and leads who had provided ground handling services to the Northwest jet aircraft would provide ground handling services to the RJ85 aircraft pursuant to a ground handling agreement between Northwest and the Northwest Airlink carrier. Such persons will remain as employees of Northwest Airlines under the terms of the applicable collective bargaining agreement and shall be given preference over non-Northwest Airline employees for work schedules, bid and day-at-a-time (DAT) vacations, overtime, and holidays."

 

[Kev3188]

Seems that TA2 has a new clause where the union leadership will go in and try to limit the membership damage of no scope by placing a provision in TA2 that allows the union to outbid swissport or air willy if the company cries outsourcing. Then after the wages/benefits get slashed, apparently the station will vote on it and if 60% vote yes, then the lower wages and lower benefits will be applied. I assume this will also affect the hubs with express work. Hang on for a ride because this is the only contract where $24 does NOT mean $24

If they negotiated properly the first time, they wouldn't need to go in and renegotiate.

WTF?! Is this for real?

 

[mike33]

WTF?! Is this for real?

Links and Language " Ouotes " are the only real things........... Can you please post either tim?

 

[jet job]

Seems that TA2 has a new clause where the union leadership will go in and try to limit the membership damage of no scope by placing a provision in TA2 that allows the union to outbid swissport or air willy if the company cries outsourcing. Then after the wages/benefits get slashed, apparently the station will vote on it and if 60% vote yes, then the lower wages and lower benefits will be applied. I assume this will also affect the hubs with express work. Hang on for a ride because this is the only contract where $24 does NOT mean $24

If they negotiated properly the first time, they wouldn't need to go in and renegotiate.

Nelson spins again........ Geesh

 

[Kev3188]

Links and Language " Ouotes " are the only real things........... Can you please post either tim?

I agree.

Nelson spins again........ Geesh

It's it's merely Tim spinning, post the full text and stop the carousel.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Is this the article you're looking for?

"RJ85 Layoff Protection: RJ85 Layoff protection is intended to apply at those stations at which (i) Northwest Airlines currently operates jet aircraft (ii)all such Northwest jet service is subsequently discontinued, and (iii) a Northwest Airlink carrier operates RJ85 aircraft at such station. In that event, it is intended that the Northwest customer service agents or supervisors or equipment service employees and leads who had provided ground handling services to the Northwest jet aircraft would provide ground handling services to the RJ85 aircraft pursuant to a ground handling agreement between Northwest and the Northwest Airlink carrier. Such persons will remain as employees of Northwest Airlines under the terms of the applicable collective bargaining agreement and shall be given preference over non-Northwest Airline employees for work schedules, bid and day-at-a-time (DAT) vacations, overtime, and holidays."

I'm going to PM you brother. Yes, that language and some other language I remember reading in there. I'll PM you

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Seems that TA2 has a new clause where the union leadership will go in and try to limit the membership damage of no scope by placing a provision in TA2 that allows the union to outbid swissport or air willy if the company cries outsourcing.

The union going to outsource jobs to itself? Really?

Will the dues be lowered? Swissport pays like $8.00 an hour...

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson spins again........ Geesh

I will admit that right now, we haven't seen the entire language surrounding this but the framework of the 66 2/3 vote was mentioned by negotiator Sandy Gardner, and Mike Klemm. A cut and paste of the following,

"If the station to be outsourced votes 66 2/3 within that station to accept the modified wages and benefits to retain the work there, the people that voted no would still be offered the system options to relocate and only the people that voted yes would stay and continue the work in that station."

That isn't the exact language that I have seen but Gardner clarified it with David Judah last night. Maybe she is lying but I don't think she would blatantly lie....but maybe you are correct jet job and this clause isn't in it.

At any rate, If it is....
I have immediate problems with this. US AIRWAYS was forced into a suck class 2 pay but it was in bankruptcy and it was removed outside of bankruptcy. Ironic that you guys will be re-negotiating wages and benefits for class 2 stations when your company is making hundreds of millions. The fact that you include the 'exclusive station' vote within the TA2 explicitly suggest that Delaney is going to walk in and renegotiate wages and benefits lower, and he will be able to do so without a having to have the entire system voting for it. My hunch is that once the unlimited part time kicks in next month, if ratified, the part timers, perhaps college kids, will control any station vote over someone with 30 years. But that is just my opinion as none of us really know how a vote would go and IF this is really in the contract. I really hope it isn't.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The union going to outsource jobs to itself? Really?

Will the dues be lowered? Swissport pays like $8.00 an hour...

I like that, 'outsource jobs to itself'. Sadly that would fit, a sorta veiled American Eagle. lol Let's see what the new language says

 

[jet job]

I will admit that right now, we haven't seen the entire language surrounding this but the framework of the 66 2/3 vote was mentioned by negotiator Sandy Gardner, and Mike Klemm. A cut and paste of the following,

"If the station to be outsourced votes 66 2/3 within that station to accept the modified wages and benefits to retain the work there, the people that voted no would still be offered the system options to relocate and only the people that voted yes would stay and continue the work in that station."

That isn't the exact language that I have seen but Gardner clarified it with David Judah last night. Maybe she is lying but I don't think she would blatantly lie....but maybe you are correct jet job and this clause isn't in it.

At any rate, If it is....
I have immediate problems with this. US AIRWAYS was forced into a suck class 2 pay but it was in bankruptcy and it was removed outside of bankruptcy. Ironic that you guys will be re-negotiating wages and benefits for class 2 stations when your company is making hundreds of millions. The fact that you include the 'exclusive station' vote within the TA2 explicitly suggest that Delaney is going to walk in and renegotiate wages and benefits lower, and he will be able to do so without a having to have the entire system voting for it. My hunch is that once the unlimited part time kicks in next month, if ratified, the part timers, perhaps college kids, will control any station vote over someone with 30 years. But that is just my opinion as none of us really know how a vote would go and IF this is really in the contract. I really hope it isn't.

Nelson would rather 30000 people and their families suffer an unneeded strike or remain in NMB limbo with us still divided with the company moving forward picking us off one at a time

Why is that Nelson? Bonjour you fake ..........I want my retro

 

[mike33]

I like that, 'outsource jobs to itself'. Sadly that would fit, a sorta veiled American Eagle. lol Let's see what the new language says

You've backed off a little from the original that it was in there. This is why i have some problems with things posted here. It gets confusing going over and over about 1/2 truths. This is about our futures. Lets not assume because someone said something. Lets hold our judgements for the accrual language, unless of course you have seen it in print.

 

[jet job]

Nelson does that..... Portrays himself as an expert on the Internet over something that does not affect him or his coin purse. Bonjour nelson