Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[Tim Nelson]

Hey kev if you want to be a nelson cheerleader. So be it.

He hasn't read the TA so anything he is spouting is lies and is filling in with fairy tales. He may be able to get away with that on facebook but not here. He likes to play the what if game. We can all play that game.

Trust me, Kev is no cheerleader for anyone. Me and him have had our rounds over the years I think if I remember correctly. I haven't read the entire TA2 but Klemm and Bartz have confirmed that the scope is the same, only 7 stations, and the highlight sheet explicitly states it. Can I hope the highlight sheet is wrong? At any rate, I'm looking forward to the $10 a month health care contribution rate on the highlight sheet. $10 buck health care sounds good to me!!! Once we see that language, I'll definitely cut and paste that on the US AIRWAYS forum!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hey here is a different approach Nelson. Let try this for giggles. In the land of oz the company agrees to protect every city with mainline flights. However the UAX work is not protected. (This is the way it is in the current sUA ramp contract and not at all in the ibt contract or in the PCE contract) Now the company decides to replace the mainline aircraft with rj's. What happens Nelson? Furloughs, that's what happens. Some have move packages, some don't. Some have good severance packages some don't . Those at united with Pre 94 will have jobs, those that don't hit the streets if they have no one junior to em. With lifetime recall rights to a city that isn't coming back.

This folks is what Nelson thinks of the working people and their families at united.

But maybe that is his grand plan he has schemed up in his dark little room

You are absolutely right that if United goes out of business and parks 695 jets and cancels 500 more then nobody will have a job. I completely agree. You guys are so fancied with express while throwing out the baby and the bathwater. United work is your bread and butter, start getting more than 7 stations under scope, then it would be nice to gain some permanent express work as well but you did neither.

Here is another scenario, This TA passes, then United doesn't pull any mainline out of any stations at all and you lose all mainline work in 90%+ of stations [83 out of 90 stations]. Now, because you try to manufacture consent that seniority protections are scope, you may be able to get enough members to vote for it. But seniority protections are only seniority protections. They are engaged when folks get pink slips and have to make a choice to take furlough or transfer. The only thing you have done is made sure that the company at least gives 15 year employees a full time choice with the 1999 seniority protections. But aren't seniority protections already covered in your contract with displacement procedures? I mean, can't a 15 year employee already bump a junior employee? So what good is a 1999 seniority protecton for someone who already has enough seniority to bump to another station anyways? The folks who need seniority protections are junior employees but none of them are protected whatsoever.

 

[jet job]

You are absolutely right that if United goes out of business and parks 695 jets and cancels 500 more then nobody will have a job. I completely agree. You guys are so fancied with express while throwing out the baby and the bathwater. United work is your bread and butter, start getting more than 7 stations under scope, then it would be nice to gain some permanent express work as well but you did neither.

Here is another scenario, This TA passes, then United doesn't pull any mainline out of any stations at all and you lose all mainline work in 90%+ of stations [83 out of 90 stations]. Now, because you try to manufacture consent that seniority protections are scope, you may be able to get enough members to vote for it. But seniority protections are only seniority protections. They are engaged when folks get pink slips and have to make a choice to take furlough or transfer. The only thing you have done is made sure that the company at least gives 15 year employees a full time choice with the 1999 seniority protections. But aren't seniority protections already covered in your contract with displacement procedures? I mean, can't a 15 year employee already bump a junior employee? So what good is a 1999 seniority protecton for someone who already has enough seniority to bump to another station anyways? The folks who need seniority protections are junior employees but none of them are protected whatsoever.

Gee nelson welcome back

Lets just take your post as an example, UAX is not a mandatory item for negotiation with united. 67% of the flights are express. So as of right now the company can outsource 67% of its operation to vendors furloughing 67% of its ground employees if it wanted to. Some locations the junior man would be 1994. Seniority dates work, many examples exist currently
on united. Bonjour

 

[jet job]

So Nelson what you are saying is that you believe that ohare is safe. Got news for you only the mainline is currently protected. More than half of ohare is UAX. So you are campaigning to put half of the ohare workers out on the street. If that happens roughly 1800 employees are gone. How could you do that?

 

[jet job]

Perhaps you should team up with Eulo . ...... My bad you tried that in 2012.....how did that work out for you?

 

[jet job]

The two of you will have a lot of explaining to do because you have worked so hard to shoot this down for your twisted reasons before it has come out

 

[mike33]

The two of you will have a lot of explaining to do because you have worked so hard to shoot this down for your twisted reasons before it has come out

Jet

How long does it take for a whole organization to Proof read the TA do you think?. It's been awhile now and others in the past were out in about 4 days. It's not an argumentative question, but everyone is in anticipation.
If it's because of "interpretation" and " intent " language during negotiations then thats good because ours has a lot of " ifs" and " maybes' ".

 

[Kev3188]

Trust me, Kev is no cheerleader for anyone. Me and him have had our rounds over the years I think if I remember correctly.

Hahaha. Yep.

And we may again, who knows? Nothing wrong with that. Our common ground is that we share the same vision of leader accountability, and a low tolerance for CBA's that send labor backwards...

So Nelson what you are saying is that you believe that ohare is safe. Got news for you only the mainline is currently protected. More than half of ohare is UAX. So you are campaigning to put half of the ohare workers out on the street. If that happens roughly 1800 employees are gone. How could you do that?

What happened to the deal trading UAX work at ORD for the acceptance of a revised attendance program?

Jet

How long does it take for a whole organization to Proof read the TA do you think?. It's been awhile now and others in the past were out in about 4 days. It's not an argumentative question, but everyone is in anticipation.
If it's because of "interpretation" and " intent " language during negotiations then thats good because ours has a lot of " ifs" and " maybes' ".

If, shall, & "at mgmt.'s discretion" should never appear in any CBA...

 

[jet job]

I'll give them time to proof read it and make sure it is right. I don't want different versions with corrections being updated like last time.

 

[RatifyNOW]

I just want to comment on one thing I got bills coming out of my ears I got two kids I'm trying to put thru school and I have some guy from another airline trying to derail a contract I have waited 4 plus years for...Can someone please tell this person to please stop. I am just about losing my house and I need my retro money badly. I can't wait any longer I need my money and I need it NOW.

 

[737823]

I just want to comment on one thing I got bills coming out of my ears I got two kids I'm trying to put thru school and I have some guy from another airline trying to derail a contract I have waited 4 plus years for...Can someone please tell this person to please stop. I am just about losing my house and I need my retro money badly. I can't wait any longer I need my money and I need it NOW.

Don't like it, don't read it. Trying to silence an opposing view? Is this what the labor movement has come to?

Josh

 

[737823]

And we may again, who knows? Nothing wrong with that. Our common ground is that we share the same vision of leader accountability, and a low tolerance for CBA's that send labor backwards...

Leadership starts at the top. I know you are big proponent of a bottom up strategy but the fact is lasting, meaningful change will require a cohesive and unified labor movement. As it is different unions (or locals/distrcits within the same union) are too concerned with shortsighted short term gains that they are losing sight of the big picture. A big part of the problem seems to be complacent, out of touch leaders are most interested keeping the status quo and their cushy roles than take decisive moves to improve labor for all. Trumka was regarded by many as a reformer to replace the old, tired John Sweeney from the AFL-CIO and what has he done? Nothing.

If, shall, & "at mgmt.'s discretion" should never appear in any CBA...

And unions should make the CBA language understandable to the membership. As it is much of the language is difficult to fully comprehend, even for educated ones that actually take the time to read the CBAs front to back. My suspicion is many of these leaders purposefully work with the co to use language that is confusing only to make it difficult for the membership to understand and pass judgement on.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

I just want to comment on one thing I got bills coming out of my ears I got two kids I'm trying to put thru school and I have some guy from another airline trying to derail a contract I have waited 4 plus years for...Can someone please tell this person to please stop. I am just about losing my house and I need my retro money badly. I can't wait any longer I need my money and I need it NOW.

We all got bills. Maybe you shoulda budgeted better so you wouldn't feel you have to swallow a sub par deal like this...

...or maybe it's another contrived user name. Can't help but notice the convenient timing of your joining the board, and yet another reference to an ad campaign...

 

[jet job]

That the good thing about this bog .... Can't be blocked ..... Like social media...

People can read it and can express their views Seems like to me that josh doesn't like ratifynow opinion. Too bad josh it is a legitimate view

If you don't like don't read it

 

[RatifyNOW]

Don't like it, don't read it. Trying to silence an opposing view? Is this what the labor movement has come to?

Josh

He is not helping me or my family at this point his constant rants from something that he has no business talking about at my airline is effecting my lively hood. He has his own airline and needs to stop harassing and bullying members with his twisted views on how United employees need to work. I need my money and I need it badly you may be from another airline as well and I don't appreciate people meddling in on my contract that will pay my thousands in retro money and provide me with a raise I deserve.