Why are the pilots worthy of a union representation?

[Dignity]

Who said anything about a FA? I really could not care less about inflight because they have had multiple opportunities to get a CBA and declined. Therefore, they get what they bargain for...nothing.

to me, a group can have as many opportunities as they see fit or whatever is deemed necessary..

Last time I checked this was not an "inflight only" board. I'm interested in those guys that are on the operations side that are compensated at the bottom of the "industry standard" scale in compensation and benefits.

to my understanding a forum is public and anyone can share their opinion.

my suggestion would be to start a thread and focus on that topic... if it is concerning other issues that may be important to a particular group, I think for the most part people generally respect that..

p.s. I wonder why we haven't seen the contract for the combined DL dispatchers group. Could it be that their bennies are also better than the non-contract, non-union, non-pilot group? :huh:

probably

 

[jalbalpa]

Well dapoes now that you speak of it, the last AFA negotiated contract of a major airline outside of bankruptcy was the Alaska Airlines contract.

The 1999 contract had a maximum pay rate of 41.26 TFP(47.03/hr) and increased it by 8.3% to 44.68 TFP(50.93/hr) with the 2006 contract. Now there were also many more contract improvements, such as duty rigs, vacation, per diem, etc...

So here is your example of a F/A group improvements, negotiated by AFA!

 

[Dignity]

Show me one airline who's FA's get the same benefits as the pilots. Show me, show me, show me. With or without a union, the pilots will always come out with more. :blink:

generally the benefits are basically regarded the same, paid vacation, sick leave, medical insurance, fee waived/reduced travel and extending to immediate family..ext....and sometimes a mainline Flight Attendant will make higher wages(even at reduced rates) than a Regional Pilot...and sometimes it not what someone believes they should receive rather than what is negotiated.

It is very important to be part of the..process.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

and sometimes it not what someone believes they should receive rather than what is negotiated.

negotiated....hmmm, I like that word. Great choice of words, Dig.

negotiate. Excellent!

 

[LCC_#1]

The simple answer is because the pilots choose to have union. It has nothing to do with minorities, women, gays, martians or anything else. BTW the combined mechanic workforce is not unionized. I doubt it will be either. Most of the old DL mechanics and even most of the old NW mechanics are against the union. I personally don't agree, but I can't vote for everybody.

Now as for your opinion as why you are not represented, you are entitled to believe what ever. I really hate the it's because I'll gay argument. I really could care less about your sex life. I know many other mechanics do have a hang up, but I really don't care. I do have a problem with you throwing this out as why you don't have union reperesentation. For this to be a valid argument all the union airlines would have to have less gay FA's than DL. I've never seen the data, but I doubt there is much difference.

So if you what to complain about gay marriage rights, I'll come to your side. If you want a union, get out there and get the other FA's to sign card and then vote.

HOMOPHOBE ALERT!! Geez, you didn't go on about the other groups referenced. :down: :down:

 

[DalMD88]

HOMOPHOBE ALERT!! Geez, you didn't go on about the other groups referenced. :down: :down:

I think you need to reread my post. I really could care less about a person's sexual orientation. That is their personal business, just like religion. I believe in Gay rights. I think G&L should be allowed to marry, adopt, have the same benefits, etc. The original poster was using being Gay as a barrier for having a union. It is just like saying I suck at math because I'm a girl. No, you suck at math because, just like me, you never worked at it.

My problem with this post is being Gay is NOT the reason why F/A at DL are not unionized. They don't have a union because THEY have not been able to get enough votes among themselfs to vote in a union. This is the very same reason mechanics at DL are not unionized. It is nobodys fault but their own that these groups don't have the same representation as the pilots.

 

[southwind]

Would a union have stopped the rifs, pay-cuts and out-sourcing in maint.!.........................Didn't think so !

If a union stopped all of this at other airlines , please feel free to point them out !

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Would a union have stopped the rifs, pay-cuts and out-sourcing in maint.!.........................Didn't think so !

If a union stopped all of this at other airlines , please feel free to point them out !

Merger Contract for DL/NW pilots

24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed
Stronger Scope Language
5% pay increase on 1/1/09, 4% EACH year thereafter
Int'l pay for all pilots ($5.20 p/hr for Captains, $3.90 for F/Os)
Increased Profit Sharing
Per Diem increases
Reimbursement of real estate commissions in the event a base is closed within 24 months. Max; $35,000.00
Full pay sick leave hours increased from 240 to 300 hours on a rolling three-year basis
Seat on the Delta Board of Directors
Medical Insurance Retirement improvements
Additional 1% to Defined Contribution Plan (with increases in 2011 and 2012)
3.5 Equity in the merged Company
Delta Air Lines agrees to pay the Union's "costs and fees" incurred as a result of the merger

With capacity cuts currently taking place, we shall see!

 

[Kev3188]

Would a union have stopped the rifs, pay-cuts and out-sourcing in maint.!.........................Didn't think so !

If a union stopped all of this at other airlines , please feel free to point them out !

As has been pointed out at least 100 times on this board, DL AMT's would be fools to certify AMFA and fall under their current imposed terms.

Once the decertification has come and gone, they'd be fools *not* to try and organize.

 

[tech2101]

Would a union have stopped the rifs, pay-cuts and out-sourcing in maint.!.........................Didn't think so !

If a union stopped all of this at other airlines , please feel free to point them out !

You are still clueless...

And they let you work on airplanes?

 

[southwind]

Merger Contract for DL/NW pilots

24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed
Stronger Scope Language
5% pay increase on 1/1/09, 4% EACH year thereafter
Int'l pay for all pilots ($5.20 p/hr for Captains, $3.90 for F/Os)
Increased Profit Sharing
Per Diem increases
Reimbursement of real estate commissions in the event a base is closed within 24 months. Max; $35,000.00
Full pay sick leave hours increased from 240 to 300 hours on a rolling three-year basis
Seat on the Delta Board of Directors
Medical Insurance Retirement improvements
Additional 1% to Defined Contribution Plan (with increases in 2011 and 2012)
3.5 Equity in the merged Company
Delta Air Lines agrees to pay the Union's "costs and fees" incurred as a result of the merger

With capacity cuts currently taking place, we shall see!

"24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed"

Kind of like the UAW's job bank !

Hope we never need Big Brothers bail-out, because the first thing to go will be ALPA's job bank.................contract or no !

BTW Tech..........since I'm clueless, enlighten me ! We all know airline salaries have diminished, how 'bout your union dues ! :unsure:

 

[2BlacknBlue]

"24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed"

Kind of like the UAW's job bank !

Hope we never need Big Brothers bail-out, because the first thing to go will be ALPA's job bank.................contract or no !

BTW Tech..........since I'm clueless, enlighten me ! We all know airline salaries have diminished, how 'bout your union dues ! :unsure:

"Kind of like..."

"Hope..."

Lord, this is rubbish! This is the best that you can do? Didn't we get bailout money from "Big Brother" from 9-11? Did the pilot job bank disappear then?

You're not clueless. You're simply holding on to values that do not represent the average American worker. Those days are numbered.

 

[Delta Technician]

"Kind of like..."

"Hope..."

Lord, this is rubbish! This is the best that you can do? Didn't we get bailout money from "Big Brother" from 9-11? Did the pilot job bank disappear then?

You're not clueless. You're simply holding on to values that do not represent the average American worker. Those days are numbered.

We didn't get a 'bailout" from any entity. The govt. helped to pay for the added security measures that they made mandatory and was going to cost the airlines hundreds of millions of dollars. I think they did this via tax breaks. I don't recall reading that the govt. gave any airline an infusion of money as a bailout.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't recall reading that the govt. gave any airline an infusion of money as a bailout.

The ATSB backed loans, which were given to US, HP, and a very few small airlines.

Jim

 

[Kev3188]

The ATSB backed loans, which were given to US, HP, and a very few small airlines.

Jim

Exactly....


ATSB summary.