Where's the Birth Certificate?

[Ms Tree]

When I knock on your door and seek to enter your home, do you have to prove I cannot come in or do I need to prove that I can enter?

 

[southwind]

Yeah.............next time they ask me for my "Birth Certificate", instead of wallking all the way to my dresser, which is all the way in my betroom and getting it, I'm going to tell those basterds to speak to my "$$$ ONE POINT THREE MILLION DOLLAR LAWYERS $$$" !

BTW................where did the 1.3 million come from ? :unsure:

 

[Ms Tree]

I really don't understand how the birthers are getting so much traction out of this. Are there teally that many idiots out there?

Obamas mother was a US citizen. Per US law as long as one parent is a citizen, the child is a US citizen if the parent chooses regardless of place of birth just like McCain is a US citizen. Aside from that, the Hawiian AG (I think) certified Obamas cert as legit and if that is not good enough then the birthers need to prove otber wise.

This is now about seperation of powers. The offi e of the POTUS is not going to surrender info to anyone who asks (see Cheney and the closed meetings he had with oil execs). It would set a poor precedent.

 

[eolesen]

The difference with McCain's foreign birth is that it was to two US citizens. Obama is to one US citizen, so it's a huge difference in Constitutional terms whether or not he was natural born.

I could care less about the issue, but the fact still stands that he could have put this to rest two years ago. And for the states considering requiring proof? Good for them.

And Ms. Tree, my doorman Mr. Remington will be happy to show you all the proof necessary why you won't be entering my home.

 

[Ms Tree]

Are you trying to say that the US legal system will not treat a single parent the same as two parents? Obamas mother is a US citizen therefore so is he. This is nothing but a political maneuver that has petered out. Not even FOX is touching it.

 

[Veritas]

Are you trying to say that the US legal system will not treat a single parent the same as two parents? Obamas mother is a US citizen therefore so is he. This is nothing but a political maneuver that has petered out. Not even FOX is touching it.

Unfortunately, they are treated differently.

From the U.S. Department of State website:

Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock

A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provided that one of the parents had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the child’s birth. The child is considered to be born in wedlock if the child is the genetic issue of the married couple.

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock

A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.

Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father – “New” Section 309(a)

A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) of the INA, as made applicable by the “new” Section 309(a) of the INA provided:

1. A blood relationship between the person and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence;
2. The father had the nationality of the United States at the time of the person’s birth;
3. The father was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions prior to the child’s birth for five years, at least two of which were after reaching the age of 14.
4. The father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the person reaches the age of 18 years, and
5. While the person is under the age of 18 years --
   • the person is legitimated under the law of his/her residence or domicile,
   • the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
   • the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.

Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father – “Old” Section 309(a) of the INA- A child born out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under the former Section 301(a)(7) of the INA as made applicable by the “old” Section 309(a) of the INA if the U.S. citizen father, prior to the child’s birth, had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for ten years, five of which were after the age of 14, and if the paternity of the child had been established by legitimation prior to the child reaching the age of 21. The “old” Section 309(a) of the INA is applicable to individuals who were 18 on November 14, 1986 and to individuals whose paternity had been established by legitimation prior to that date. Individuals who were at least 15 on November 14, 1986, but under the age of 18, could opt to have their claim determined in accordance with the provisions of either the “old” or the “new” Section 309(a).

Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother:

A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 309(c) of the INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person’s birth and if the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person’s birth. The mother must be genetically related to the person in order to transmit U.S. citizenship.

The U. S. Supreme Court just heard a case challenging the section of the law which favors children of U.S. citizen mothers over those of U.S. citizen fathers.

The Washington Post - Justices consider case on parent gender, citizenship

 

[eolesen]

This is nothing but a political maneuver that has petered out.

Maybe, but it's going to come up again, if not with Obama, with another potential candidate -- Marco Rubio.

 

[Ms Tree]

From what you posted it seems there are different standards that apply (I would think if contested they would be struck down) but assuming Obama's mother was present the requisite amount of times, it still would not matter where Obama was born. Either way this pie is sliced, Obama is a US citizen, and unless there is proof to the contrary, this remains a dead issue.

 

[eolesen]

But it does matter, Ms Tree. The whole point about being natural born is to prevent a situation in which a child effectively born of two nations rises to a position by which they can be sympathetic to the crown/flag/dictator from which their other parent hails, and possibly not be objective in matters concerning foreign policy.

While some might see it as having been more likely to be a threat with the country in its infancy, it nevertheless remains the law of the land.

Nobody was too interested in changing it in 1974 or 2003 to allow Kissinger or Arnold to be eligible to run for President...

 

[xUT]

But it does matter, Ms Tree. The whole point about being natural born is to prevent a situation in which a child effectively born of two nations rises to a position by which they can be sympathetic to the crown/flag/dictator from which their other parent hails, and possibly not be objective in matters concerning foreign policy.

While some might see it as having been more likely to be a threat with the country in its infancy, it nevertheless remains the law of the land.

Nobody was too interested in changing it in 1974 or 2003 to allow Kissinger or Arnold to be eligible to run for President...

Who cares, our 'naturally' born presidents have been screwing us any way.
We should adopt globalization polices and hire the cheapest candidate...

 

[Ms Tree]

But it does matter, Ms Tree. The whole point about being natural born is to prevent a situation in which a child effectively born of two nations rises to a position by which they can be sympathetic to the crown/flag/dictator from which their other parent hails, and possibly not be objective in matters concerning foreign policy.

While some might see it as having been more likely to be a threat with the country in its infancy, it nevertheless remains the law of the land.

Nobody was too interested in changing it in 1974 or 2003 to allow Kissinger or Arnold to be eligible to run for President...

Wow. A thoughtful post with out insults. Thank you.

I agree with you for the most part regarding the benefit of a natural born citizen and their allegiance. In the case of Kissinger of Arnold (not looking up his last name either) they were not born in the US and neither of their parents were US citizens so they never could have been natural citizens. In regards to Obama, even if he was not born in Hawaii (of which there is no proof he was not) his mother was a US citizen and there for he is as well. The way I have read the definitions of what constitutes citizenship, Obama was a US citizen at birth and therefore a natural citizen since he was not a citizen of another nation.

 

[Veritas]

Wow. A thoughtful post with out insults. Thank you.

I agree with you for the most part regarding the benefit of a natural born citizen and their allegiance. In the case of Kissinger of Arnold (not looking up his last name either) they were not born in the US and neither of their parents were US citizens so they never could have been natural citizens. In regards to Obama, even if he was not born in Hawaii (of which there is no proof he was not) his mother was a US citizen and there for he is as well. The way I have read the definitions of what constitutes citizenship, Obama was a US citizen at birth and therefore a natural citizen since he was not a citizen of another nation.

The U. S. Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part 1, § 1401 defines who is a citizen of the United States at birth:

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

• a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
  
• a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
  
• a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
  
• a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
  
• a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
  
• a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
  
• a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
  
  • honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
    
  • employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
• a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

 

[Ms Tree]

Seems like A and E pretty much cover it.

 

[eolesen]

Except that there's no real proof that mom was in the US for the year preceding birth... borders were a lot looser back then.

At this point, it's all moot. But if at least one state enacts a proof law, it's going to be interesting to see where it goes from there...

 

[Ms Tree]

Aside from the fact that he was not born in the US or that his mother was not in the US for the required amount of time.