What's the word on the equity?

[TWU informer]

Why does the TWU continue to drive these wedges between the membership? Weak ass union comes from weak ass leadership.

 

[Vortilon]

Hey maybe this TWU fiasco will start snowballing over to the APA & APFA, then the "at will" employees can start saying "me too" as well.

 

[Bob Owens]

A lot of us left because we had enough of the concession train.
At age 54 with 22 yes at AA it was not a good feeling knowing
You have to start over at another Company. I received no early out money
So why shouldn't I receive equity money,for putting up with a DECADE of CONCESSIONS.

Because back in 2003 you received stock options in exchange for the concessions that we were promised would only last till 2006. Remember Sonny "I wont rest till we get everything back " Hall? Remember Jim Little and his "We have an early opener clause and we will get it all back in 2006"? We can thank Don Videtich , Bobby Gless and the butt kissers who followed their lead for it being stretched out till they finally declared BK. You got screwed, like the rest of us, you were able to leave, consider yourself to be one of the lucky ones.

 

[Captain Reality]

Hey maybe this TWU fiasco will start snowballing over to the APA & APFA, then the "at will" employees can start saying "me too" as well.

If the TWU allows non employees to steal some equity, that's exactly what will happen.

 

[Rogallo]

Why does the TWU continue to drive these wedges between the membership? Weak ass union comes from weak ass leadership.

Actually, weak ass members allowing weak ass leadership.

 

[MCI transplant]

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't think the equity being granted to the unions was based on the concessions granted/taken in bankruptcy; I thought it's purpose was settling pre-petition claims. If so, there's no arguing that those who took the buyouts were part of the pre-petition estate.

Thank you Eric!------- Now let's see if AA's lawyer's see it that way?

 

[CIO]

So are you saying that in addition to the $40k they walked away with after leaving us with the worst deal in the industry they should also get Equity thats being provided for the concession they wont have to live with the next 5+ years? How generous of you to give away other people's money! They got the $40 K , the money for that buyout was paid for with concessions that we have to live with, now you want to take some of the equity that is being given to those who have to live under the deal away from them so they can in a way pay the Early Outs twice?

Are you claiming that if the Retirees had known that there may be an equity stake worth $16k that they would have stayed and turned down $40K?

Isn't the purpose of giving an equity stake to make sure that the recipient of that Equity has a stake in the future success of the company? How would giving it to retirees further that goal? Goodwill? Thats only a tax scheme.

Since we are all brothers and sisters in the same union should the 757 award go to all of us as well? Lets face it, according to both the company and the TWU had we all not given the concessions we gave in 2003 then that award would not have ever existed, they would have had the right to outsource it, in other words we all paid through concessions to keep the language that kept that work in house, so shouldn't we all be entitled to a share of the award since we all paid with industry leading concessions in pay, vacation, Holidays (which impacted the line more than OH) Sick time etc to make the award possible? Why should OH get more Equity than the Line? Especially when our Line Mechanic to Aircraft Ratio is pretty much in line with the Industry but our pay, benefits and workrules are nowhere near the rest of the industry?

To me the Retirees should get shares based upon the time they worked under the deal. If they left right away their share should be be pretty much nothing, if the company has not released them they should get a prorated amount based upon the time since ratification that they worked under the deal.

Bob all the rants and it comes down to the last paragraph. I agree for the most part, except! AA decided to treated many unjust by allowing individual managers to pick and choose who would be allowed to stay and who should go instead of allowing the selection stand as the employee picked. Maybe, it should start at 50% and then be prorated as time served thru the time the committee selected (July 2013)? I remember many selected May 2013 and were told to go in Nov 2012? In turn, I seen many were not allowed to go according to their selection and had to stay longer? I hope the committee will look past their personal agenda's and find a fair and equitable solution for all our Brothers and Sisters. In Solidarity, CIO

 

[Birdman]

The equity is for people on the payroll period.

As of July 26th anyway.

 

[Rogallo]

AA decided to treated many unjust by allowing individual managers to pick and choose who would be allowed to stay and who should go instead of allowing the selection stand as the employee picked.

Another failure of the TWU.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob all the rants and it comes down to the last paragraph. I agree for the most part, except! AA decided to treated many unjust by allowing individual managers to pick and choose who would be allowed to stay and who should go instead of allowing the selection stand as the employee picked. Maybe, it should start at 50% and then be prorated as time served thru the time the committee selected (July 2013)? I remember many selected May 2013 and were told to go in Nov 2012? In turn, I seen many were not allowed to go according to their selection and had to stay longer? I hope the committee will look past their personal agenda's and find a fair and equitable solution for all our Brothers and Sisters. In Solidarity, CIO

In other words management did what the language expressly allowed them to do? Much like SIS , flex starting rates and other things where the Union agreed to let management have total discretion. We need to start acting like a Union. You don't sign language in place and then hope the company won't exploit it.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I don't know about anywhere else but in Tulsa we still got guys hanging on that were supposed to be gone in December and February. Everyone who was forced to go before they wanted to should be filing grievances and getting paid. These guys actually think AA can't do without them. We have heard they will be gone by September but we also heard they would be gone by February, then April, etc.

 

[Barfbag]

Thank you Eric!------- Now let's see if AA's lawyer's see it that way?

AA lawyers are out of the loop on this one now.

The TWU has the ball in their court. So it's their attorneys against ours. After attorneys on both sides of the issue line their pockets in fees and the present stock price drops on Wall Street from pressure from oil price futures ( as Eqypt becomes the next Afghanistan). Everyone would be lucky to get about half of what they're expecting now.

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't know about anywhere else but in Tulsa we still got guys hanging on that were supposed to be gone in December and February. Everyone who was forced to go before they wanted to should be filing grievances and getting paid. These guys actually think AA can't do without them. We have heard they will be gone by September but we also heard they would be gone by February, then April, etc.

Personally I thought the whole EARLY OUT deal was a huge rip off. For many it was not even the dollar equivalent of what they had in the sick bank, and basically you were agreeing to put your life on hold for up to a year for $40k. In other words tying up a year of your life where you could not make plans for a little over half a years pay. At least at UAL they were offered a years pay, $75k. Those who got stuck obviously didn't look at the language. The language pretty much made it clear that they could release you at any time prior to the September date, at their discretion.

 

[Jager]

The Early Out was icing on the cake for me.. Financially planning for 15 years to execute my AA retirement at the age of 55 with 29 years at AA.. My EO commenced the day after I turned 55.. Perfect... Didn't need their severance but I'll take it..

Most of the guys are afraid of change..Which is induced by "spousal beat down syndrome" that we experienced from the TWU and AA management.. There are better op's out there after AA..

As for the Equity shares.. I believe the EO's are entitle to a equitable percentage.. Maybe not as much as the current employees.. I've read the eligibility period was from Nov/11 to Jul/13.. The math can be easily calculated for a fair equitable payment to EO's and Current employees....

 

[MCI transplant]

AA lawyers are out of the loop on this one now.

The TWU has the ball in their court. So it's their attorneys against ours. After attorneys on both sides of the issue line their pockets in fees and the present stock price drops on Wall Street from pressure from oil price futures ( as Eqypt becomes the next Afghanistan). Everyone would be lucky to get about half of what they're expecting now.

It sounds like you are on top of this more than I. Let's hope the retiree, at least , gets something out of this! ----- Now that would be novel!