What the deal AMP

[FrequentFlierCA]

I fear we are going to get the same contract or worse, two years later.

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make on these boards for a long time: you're probably going to end up with something very similar to what was agreed and voted down this year, and have nothing but more time at the 2003 concession wage to show for it. I'm not known for being the most pro-union commenter on here, but in this sense I really feel for you guys. I know many of you could have used the raise and bonus for the holidays.

 

[odie01]

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make on these boards for a long time: you're probably going to end up with something very similar to what was agreed and voted down this year, and have nothing but more time at the 2003 concession wage to show for it. I'm not known for being the most pro-union commenter on here, but in this sense I really feel for you guys. I know many of you could have used the raise and bonus for the holidays.

Why are you trying to help us? Your getting a little squirrelly, Mr. Land of the Fruit and Nuts.

 

[PhatSappy]

Hackman lets get a couple of things straight, 1st I don't need you to hold my hand or anyone else from AA. 2nd I have been involved in several card drives with amfa over the years. 3rd I have recently contacted AFMA about starting a new card drive and was told that with the current AMP drive they had no plans at this time, 4th theres is no talk of AMP around here except when I ask, and someone just gives me that lost look. 5th when trying to track down there website via google was not easy. thank you odie01 for posting a link

IF they have over 50% what are they waiting for thats what I'm getting at.

So what was your original point then? Maybe that the AMP drive is stalled? If more people were involved you might be one of them.

 

[Hopeful]

I would like to ask the pro TWU types here something..........

Do you NOT have a problem with the salaries of the International leadership?
Do you NOT have a problem that Little's secretary makes $140,000.00 PLUS?
Do you NOT have a problem that you get to vote for the President of the United States but NOT the president of the TWU?
How about his appointees?
I've been foremost a critic of executive compensation and their annual PUP payouts....But my international leadership is no different in the greed and "holier than thou" department.

And people still defend the TWU? Did Little, Glees and Conley and Little's secretary lose $20,000 and year and still counting like we did?

You people have displayed much anger at AA managment, and rightfully so..

But where is your anger at the TWU management,,,er I mean, leadership?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make on these boards for a long time: you're probably going to end up with something very similar to what was agreed and voted down this year, and have nothing but more time at the 2003 concession wage to show for it. I'm not known for being the most pro-union commenter on here, but in this sense I really feel for you guys. I know many of you could have used the raise and bonus for the holidays.

FF,

Talk like yours reeks of cowardice. Sure, let's accept whatever the company offers us each time because of FEAR. You sound just like a twu int. rep.

This is not an ordinary contract negotiation process. Labor already gave at the office 5 years ago. Oops! I mean 7 1/2 years ago going on 8. Management LIED to us and disrespects us but according to you we should roll over and expose the white underbelly of our craft and class.

You remind me of the recent cruise ship that hit bad weather and the ship was sinking and the Captain was one of the first off the ship and then called the ship from land!

I am glad you have an alias because I'd be ashamed if people knew who I was if I thought like you.

 

[odie01]

FF,

Talk like yours reeks of cowardice. Sure, let's accept whatever the company offers us each time because of FEAR. You sound just like a twu int. rep.

This is not an ordinary contract negotiation process. Labor already gave at the office 5 years ago. Oops! I mean 7 1/2 years ago going on 8. Management LIED to us and disrespects us but according to you we should roll over and expose the white underbelly of our craft and class.

You remind me of the recent cruise ship that hit bad weather and the ship was sinking and the Captain was one of the first off the ship and then called the ship from land!

I am glad you have an alias because I'd be ashamed if people knew who I was if I thought like you.

Is Eoleson a MOLE also, I think so!

 

[eolesen]

Is Eoleson a MOLE also, I think so!

If you're going to call me a shill or a mole, at least be smart enough to spell it right.

Oh, and by the way, if I'm a mole, why am I using my real last name? Why do I reference my website and Twitter handle in my signature?

If I'm a mole, maybe I should have chosen random name like Opie.

No, unlike you, I'm quite open about who I am. No hiding behind an alias, worrying about retribution. No cowardice. Full transparency.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

FF,

Talk like yours reeks of cowardice. Sure, let's accept whatever the company offers us each time because of FEAR. You sound just like a twu int. rep.

This is not an ordinary contract negotiation process. Labor already gave at the office 5 years ago. Oops! I mean 7 1/2 years ago going on 8. Management LIED to us and disrespects us but according to you we should roll over and expose the white underbelly of our craft and class.

You remind me of the recent cruise ship that hit bad weather and the ship was sinking and the Captain was one of the first off the ship and then called the ship from land!

I am glad you have an alias because I'd be ashamed if people knew who I was if I thought like you.

Where's the cowardice in taking a deal that keeps you guys working and takes a few steps forward? Negotiations are about give-and-take, not about one side getting everything it wants.

That's called dictating terms, which is precisely what all three unions at AA have been doing for years. And that explains why you've all gotten nowhere. Think I'm wrong? Then why hasn't the NMB released any of you to self help yet?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Negotiations are about give-and-take, not about one side getting everything it wants.

The "giving" happened in 2003, now it's time for the "taking."

 

[odie01]

Where's the cowardice in taking a deal that keeps you guys working and takes a few steps forward? Negotiations are about give-and-take, not about one side getting everything it wants.

That's called dictating terms, which is precisely what all three unions at AA have been doing for years. And that explains why you've all gotten nowhere. Think I'm wrong? Then why hasn't the NMB released any of you to self help yet?

Hey,
At least be discrete about being AA mgmt., this is getting funny.

 

[Vortilon]

Freq Fly, are you kidding? The unions dictating terms.... At the TWU, we haven't had a pay raise in almost three years. Prior to that we were in a VERY concessionary 5 year contract. We had less than a year to appreciate our AMFA contract, before that was taken away. The six year contract before that was - once again, very lame as well.
My point, WTF are you talking about? UNIONS DICTATING TERMS my a$$...

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Where's the cowardice in taking a deal that keeps you guys working and takes a few steps forward? Negotiations are about give-and-take, not about one side getting everything it wants.

That's called dictating terms, which is precisely what all three unions at AA have been doing for years. And that explains why you've all gotten nowhere. Think I'm wrong? Then why hasn't the NMB released any of you to self help yet?

Cowardice is in your insinuation that we should just take what ever is offered because we should be lucky we have a job. Coming from someone who has NOT endured the shAAred sAAcrifice that we at AA have you don't know squat.

Negotiations are about give and take? Okay, in 2003 AA TOOK from us and now we want to TAKE from AA.

The NMB hasn't released us because the NMB is biased towards the company. The mediator has no teeth except for "putting us on ice". There is absolutely no incentive for AA to negotiate a contract. Each day they can drag out this process is a day they make millions. So you are wrong.

This is NOT normal contract negotiations. AA will owe us retro for each and every day they have denied us a fair contract. I refuse to accept any contract that is concessionary. I refuse to accept any contract that does not have full retro.

 

[eolesen]

[dupe]

 

[eolesen]

The "giving" happened in 2003, now it's time for the "taking."

Which of you gave up pay in 2001?

Which of you gave up pay in 1995?

I've said before that the "giving" in 2003 looks different when looking at it alone vs. looking at it in the context of the 1996 and 2001 contract gains for the union.


No single drop of water wants to believe it is responsible for the flood, but if you want to look at it honestly, look a little further back than just the last contract negotiations.

 

[Bob Owens]

Which of you gave up pay in 2001?

Which of you gave up pay in 1995?

I've said before that the "giving" in 2003 looks different when looking at it alone vs. looking at it in the context of the 1996 and 2001 contract gains for the union.


No single drop of water wants to believe it is responsible for the flood, but if you want to look at it honestly, look a little further back than just the last contract negotiations.

Every year inflation takes away a percentage of our earnings, any year that our increases dont equal inflation we effectively take a pay cut. In 1995 in addition to the huge work rule concessions we effectively took at least a 12% paycut. That 12% was on top of the previous concessionary agreements from 1983 on. In 2001 we were able to restore some of that but we did give other concessions. In 2003 the company went way beyond, in both compensation and workrules, anything they had done before. In 2010 they tried to go beyond 2003.

1995 was purely concessionary.

2001 was not a gain, it was a restoration.