What the deal AMP

[rAAgged out]

I don't have specifics on the rest and please don't confuse me with a pro TWU'r I want out! I just want a contract first and have deep concerns for even more delay.

 

[WeAAsles]

In fairness to those who think AMP is the way to go, first let me say, I have yet to find anyone who thinks the Association is good, and I agree with them. But to your point that now is the time to start over, I must disagree!! The Negotiation team has successfully negotiated dozens of tentative agreements and union busting Doug Parker and Robert Isom will not honor a single one if there is a representational change. Not only will AA enjoy SEVERAL more years of continued savings, they will be justified at pointing the finger at the membership.
Here is a short list of possible losses and if you think like the AMP leadership does, that "we'll use the language" don't count on it.
TA – Limited duty: OJI 90 days and 60 days for off the job injuries.
TA – Field Trip: 1.75 x hourly rate for entire trip including up to 8 hr. rest period (at hotel) every 16 hrs.
TA – Sick Time: 1600 hr. bank, 10 day’s accrual per yr. and full pay first day.
TA – Holidays: 10 Holidays paid at 2.5 hourly rate. Ability to bank holidays for later time off.
TA – Overtime: 1.5 times pay after 8 hr. 2 times pay after 12 and 2 times pay on second day off.
TA – Reduction in Force: All RIF’s done by basic seniority to any station you can hold. AMTO class goes away and all AMT's that bump to shops keep license premium.
TA – Furlough: If you are forced, or choose to take the street you will receive up to 17 week’s
pay and then bid any opening in the system.
TA – Shift Swap: Contractual shift swap which will not require managements approval.
TA – Interior Mechanic: Protects the guys in PHX only and expires through attrition.
TA – Filling of Vacancies
TA – Hours of service
TA – Seniority
TA – Qualifications
TA – Classifications
TA – Purpose of Agreement
TA – Training
TA – Status of Agreement
TA – Initial inspection (Base MX)
TA – Union Security
TA – Effect on prior agreement
TA – Termination of employment
TA – Computer programming AMT
TA – Fitness for Duty
TA – Bid Realignment
TA – Uniforms (Line MX)
Company offer of 6 weeks VC on the table while union continues to fight for 7.
A proper union scope proposal on the table.
9% company contribution to 401K.
Possibly $53 per hour for top AMT pay.
Take on healthcare once scope is TA'd.

AMP guys think going with a union who represents no one, has no by-laws, no local structure, a constitution yet to be finalized, and 75% of your dues money goes to the International level seems like a good thing to do. You think we are frustrated now? Just wait! and WAIT! and WAIT!
Changing horses in mid-stream is a VERY BAD IDEA!

Even though I’m glad to see someone put this information out there I’m not 100% sure that the reason was a good worm on a hook that you should have bit into?

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't have specifics on the rest and please don't confuse me with a pro TWU'r I want out! I just want a contract first and have deep concerns for even more delay.

Here is what would occur if a Card Drive were ultimately to be successful prior to JCBA’s being reached with the Association. And if anyone wants to dispute this give me a GOOD reason why I’m wrong?

As soon as the AMP Group files for a representational dispute against the Association all talks as far as Negotiations with AA will shut down including Fleet Service talks.

We all wait while the Election commences which will take months.

AMP becomes the new certified representative for the M&R Group and takes over servicing the existing CBA’s

Elections for AMP Officers begins. Eventually once that’s concluded contact with AA will commence regarding Negotiations.

AMP Reps will need to prepare their openers.

AA and AMP reps will meet and exchange their Section 6 openers. There would be no way that AA would just go back to where things left off with the Association. Everything would start back at square one.

Some TA’s “may” come fast based on items agreed to prior but many TA’s will not and it would become contentious and drag on for years. The reason being still needing to put two different philosophies IAM and TWU together.

You can change Representation but the same TWU and IAM mindsets will be in those rooms.

Once the NMB certifies the AMP group the TWU/IAM Association will take up where they left off with the Fleet Group. All items agreed to prior will remain in place and we will probably be finished very quickly as we won’t have as many issues as the AMP Group has for Scope. The Company is still going to want all of that outsourcing from AMT’s and Related.

Anyone want to dispute any of this?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW I hope you guys know that when you gain that AMP Representation you don’t just suddenly move into those TWU and IAM offices to conduct your work.

I know here in MIA that the Local 568 building has a mortgage on it to the TWU International. Since the Union is a non profit I don’t think they could even rent it out so they would have to sell the building as under similar circumstances there would no longer be a TWU Local 568.

So just to even get yourselves up and running you would probably have to run your Locals out of your own houses until you find locations to occupy.

Oh and I understand that under AMP you want to bring back multiple Locals once again? Very complicated. And will all of those Locals have a voice in Negotiations? How many Locals are you planning to create?

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Buck]

In fairness to those who think AMP is the way to go, first let me say, I have yet to find anyone who thinks the Association is good, and I agree with them. But to your point that now is the time to start over, I must disagree!! The Negotiation team has successfully negotiated dozens of tentative agreements and union busting Doug Parker and Robert Isom will not honor a single one if there is a representational change. Not only will AA enjoy SEVERAL more years of continued savings, they will be justified at pointing the finger at the membership.
Here is a short list of possible losses and if you think like the AMP leadership does, that "we'll use the language" don't count on it.
TA – Limited duty: OJI 90 days and 60 days for off the job injuries.
TA – Field Trip: 1.75 x hourly rate for entire trip including up to 8 hr. rest period (at hotel) every 16 hrs.
TA – Sick Time: 1600 hr. bank, 10 day’s accrual per yr. and full pay first day.
TA – Holidays: 10 Holidays paid at 2.5 hourly rate. Ability to bank holidays for later time off.
TA – Overtime: 1.5 times pay after 8 hr. 2 times pay after 12 and 2 times pay on second day off.
TA – Reduction in Force: All RIF’s done by basic seniority to any station you can hold. AMTO class goes away and all AMT's that bump to shops keep license premium.
TA – Furlough: If you are forced, or choose to take the street you will receive up to 17 week’s
pay and then bid any opening in the system.
TA – Shift Swap: Contractual shift swap which will not require managements approval.
TA – Interior Mechanic: Protects the guys in PHX only and expires through attrition.
TA – Filling of Vacancies
TA – Hours of service
TA – Seniority
TA – Qualifications
TA – Classifications
TA – Purpose of Agreement
TA – Training
TA – Status of Agreement
TA – Initial inspection (Base MX)
TA – Union Security
TA – Effect on prior agreement
TA – Termination of employment
TA – Computer programming AMT
TA – Fitness for Duty
TA – Bid Realignment
TA – Uniforms (Line MX)
Company offer of 6 weeks VC on the table while union continues to fight for 7.
A proper union scope proposal on the table.
9% company contribution to 401K.
Possibly $53 per hour for top AMT pay.
Take on healthcare once scope is TA'd.

AMP guys think going with a union who represents no one, has no by-laws, no local structure, a constitution yet to be finalized, and 75% of your dues money goes to the International level seems like a good thing to do. You think we are frustrated now? Just wait! and WAIT! and WAIT!
Changing horses in mid-stream is a VERY BAD IDEA!

It was a very bad idea to withold this TA information from the membership. It would seem that this same type of representation is a very bad idea.
I guess that we have the ASSociation,IAM and TWU that has pushed the Mechanics away. Same old excuses every negotiation and every attempt to replace the representation that for the last 25 years or more has failed. I want to thank the company for allowing the raise to finally bring the mechanics to an even par we should have had been with our peers.

 

[Buck]

BTW I hope you guys know that when you gain that AMP Representation you don’t just suddenly move into those TWU and IAM offices to conduct your work.

I know here in MIA that the Local 568 building has a mortgage on it to the TWU International. Since the Union is a non profit I don’t think they could even rent it out so they would have to sell the building as under similar circumstances there would no longer be a TWU Local 568.

So just to even get yourselves up and running you would probably have to run your Locals out of your own houses until you find locations to occupy.

Oh and I understand that under AMP you want to bring back multiple Locals once again? Very complicated. And will all of those Locals have a voice in Negotiations? How many Locals are you planning to create?

Anyway, good luck.

You know you had almost everyone fooled, then you blew it. Your true colors have finally shown.. You believe the Mechanic and Related are being idiots.

 

[Buck]

I don't have specifics on the rest and please don't confuse me with a pro TWU'r I want out! I just want a contract first and have deep concerns for even more delay.

If you want out consider signing a card against the Association then run a coalition to see if you can get the membership to wait to file after the agreement..

 

[WeAAsles]

You know you had almost everyone fooled, then you blew it. Your true colors have finally shown.. You believe the Mechanic and Related to being idiots.

Buck more than likely in TUL you guys own your Union Hall outright? But that’s not the case for every Local in the system. Yes there are Locals who have Mortgages and again in the case of my Local here in MIA that Mortgage is with the TWU International.

I hope you do understand how a Local’s finances work?

And you Mechanics are just people. You’re not Rocket Scientists or Brain Surgeons. Sometimes there is a fine line between being an idiot and simply being uneducated.

 

[swamt]

In fairness to those who think AMP is the way to go, first let me say, I have yet to find anyone who thinks the Association is good, and I agree with them. But to your point that now is the time to start over, I must disagree!! The Negotiation team has successfully negotiated dozens of tentative agreements and union busting Doug Parker and Robert Isom will not honor a single one if there is a representational change. Not only will AA enjoy SEVERAL more years of continued savings, they will be justified at pointing the finger at the membership.
Here is a short list of possible losses and if you think like the AMP leadership does, that "we'll use the language" don't count on it.
TA – Limited duty: OJI 90 days and 60 days for off the job injuries.
TA – Field Trip: 1.75 x hourly rate for entire trip including up to 8 hr. rest period (at hotel) every 16 hrs.
TA – Sick Time: 1600 hr. bank, 10 day’s accrual per yr. and full pay first day.
TA – Holidays: 10 Holidays paid at 2.5 hourly rate. Ability to bank holidays for later time off.
TA – Overtime: 1.5 times pay after 8 hr. 2 times pay after 12 and 2 times pay on second day off.
TA – Reduction in Force: All RIF’s done by basic seniority to any station you can hold. AMTO class goes away and all AMT's that bump to shops keep license premium.
TA – Furlough: If you are forced, or choose to take the street you will receive up to 17 week’s
pay and then bid any opening in the system.
TA – Shift Swap: Contractual shift swap which will not require managements approval.
TA – Interior Mechanic: Protects the guys in PHX only and expires through attrition.
TA – Filling of Vacancies
TA – Hours of service
TA – Seniority
TA – Qualifications
TA – Classifications
TA – Purpose of Agreement
TA – Training
TA – Status of Agreement
TA – Initial inspection (Base MX)
TA – Union Security
TA – Effect on prior agreement
TA – Termination of employment
TA – Computer programming AMT
TA – Fitness for Duty
TA – Bid Realignment
TA – Uniforms (Line MX)
Company offer of 6 weeks VC on the table while union continues to fight for 7.
A proper union scope proposal on the table.
9% company contribution to 401K.
Possibly $53 per hour for top AMT pay.
Take on healthcare once scope is TA'd.

AMP guys think going with a union who represents no one, has no by-laws, no local structure, a constitution yet to be finalized, and 75% of your dues money goes to the International level seems like a good thing to do. You think we are frustrated now? Just wait! and WAIT! and WAIT!
Changing horses in mid-stream is a VERY BAD IDEA!

No disrespect here, but, you really have no clue what the company will or will not do if the mechanics change representation. The new nego cmte that moves in will ensure that all previous agreed to terms and T/A's will not change as they are already T/A'd.
And again you brag on the top pay at 53, when other airlines will be moved close to that at DOS and then move onward towards upper 50's and even into the mid 60's. That's not industry leading as promised by co. and this asso..
Yea there are some good additions by all means AND there are some nightmares that will not come out within scope, medical, and outsourcing etc., until whenever the asso says so. And gee, why is the members always left in the dark until T/A day?? There is a huge reason for this and you will see come T/A day.
Keep signing those cards fellas, the time is now for change...

 

[dfw gen]

I don't have specifics on the rest and please don't confuse me with a pro TWU'r I want out! I just want a contract first and have deep concerns for even more delay.

Im ok with that!

 

[WeAAsles]

No disrespect here, but, you really have no clue what the company will or will not do if the mechanics change representation. The new nego cmte that moves in will ensure that all previous agreed to terms and T/A's will not change as they are already T/A'd.

Excuse me? Wrong. You don’t just step in and claim the work done by others is now what you want to keep or take credit for. Besides TA means “Tentative” agreement. Do you know what the word tentative means?

So tell me”LEGALLY” how the new nego Committee will ensure anything at all?

And again you brag on the top pay at 53, when other airlines will be moved close to that at DOS and then move onward towards upper 50's and even into the mid 60's. That's not industry leading as promised by co. and this asso..

Where did that poster “brag”? I didn’t see any bragging? And wages haven’t been confirmed yet for anyone at AA. Those conversations are still ongoing. What is known so far is an online offer from AA of 3% above the October Delta raise and 2% per year following. (That’s called an offer, not a deal)

And who’s going into the mid 60’s? Certainly not AMFA SWA.

Yea there are some good additions by all means AND there are some nightmares that will not come out within scope, medical, and outsourcing etc., until whenever the asso says so. And gee, why is the members always left in the dark until T/A day?? There is a huge reason for this and you will see come T/A day.
Keep signing those cards fellas, the time is now for change...

So you have a direct line to the future with some Crystal Ball there Nostradamus? You know the future of both AA SCOPE and Medical?

Did you have nightmares in your Scope? No according to you. So why do you have to forecast that future here on your AMT Brothers and Sisters? Seriously why do you do this to them? Why?

Why are you so concerned with the happenings at American Airlines?

 

[WeAAsles]

Well the website is back up and running again. Can someone please tell the Website administrator that it’s spelled “Neither” not “Niether”. May want to fine tooth comb that page for other errors.

And the YouTube. Nice touch with Copeland’s Fanfare for the Common Man.

BTW are you guys still taking donations? Only $100 in the last 8 days? You need to push that Go Fund Me page harder.

http://www.ampnational.org/

 

[Buck]

Well the website is back up and running again. Can someone please tell the Website administrator that it’s spelled “Neither” not “Niether”. May want to fine tooth comb that page for other errors.

And the YouTube. Nice touch with Copeland’s Fanfare for the Common Man.

BTW are you guys still taking donations? Only $100 in the last 8 days? You need to push that Go Fund Me page harder.

http://www.ampnational.org/

The Website Administrator is aware of a few spelling errors. His web service is down here at work and that is when he became aware.
The GoFund me site is only showing what was donated through the GoFund Me. Around Friday or Saturday, we surpassed the Goal
Do you know how GoFund me works? Why are you concerned about what a bunch of Mechanics are doing? It's similar to other airline mechanics following their profession.
Are you going to get your A&P Tickets under the new Junior Mechanics program?
.

 

[1AA]

The Website Administrator is aware of a few spelling errors. His web service is down here at work and that is when he became aware.
The GoFund me site is only showing what was donated through the GoFund Me. Around Friday or Saturday, we surpassed the Goal
Do you know how GoFund me works? Why are you concerned about what a bunch of Mechanics are doing? It's similar to other airline mechanics following their profession.
Are you going to get your A&P Tickets under the new Junior Mechanics program?
.

Wise up Buck. Haven't you notice this board has been quiet lately. Who's the one posting trying to bait guys to respond?
Many have finally given up dealing with guys that are not in our position in Aircraft Maintenance. There are several here but let them talk to the mirror.

 

[Buck]

Wise up Buck. Haven't you notice this board has been quiet lately. Who's the one posting trying to bait guys to respond?
Many have finally given up dealing with guys that are not in our position in Aircraft Maintenance. There are several here but let them talk to the mirror.

Yes, I found myself on Facebook responding with Russ Dittmer, he was an AMFA Supporter for a number of years. As far as I am concerned he is burning bridges trying to interfere
with the AMP drive. He claims to dislike the Association, but all he does is defend them and getting the fellow mechanics to basically not signing a card. I am curious why the Fleet Service even cares?
Russ Dittmer is also making claims that AMP organizers with non-union.