Buck, I just posted the union's update on the T/A and changes to each and every article. Also listed is the RS schedules, I know you don't care about thoses but came with the update.
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What the deal AMP
- Thread starter paul1
- Start date
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
Ok thanks
Yes that bad.
We will see how really bad it is if we get enough cards and file with the NMB. Then if we reach that point and are successful in replacing the Association with its two dysfunctional unions your question will be answered how really bad they are.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
I have written something similar before, that the TWU International has TULE maintenance which has been divided for many years. The TWU is very good at lying and deception which makes the gullible group is easy to deal with. Do not believe that all of TULE is/was against the Line. Now that the Line is a larger group use it.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,479
- 5,264
AMP organizing committee information sheet
“ You guys don’t know what you are doing!”
Quoted - Pat Kinnamon – Local 514 Chairman of Maintenance
We know exactly what we are doing, and can even explain why we are doing this.
THE PROBLEM
Here is a quote from the Railway Labor Act
The RAILWAY LABOR ACT § 152. General duties
Fourth….
Employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing. The majority of any craft or class of employees shall have the right to determine who shall be the representative of the craft or class for the purposes of this chapter.
THIS DOESN’T SAY WE CAN OR WILL BE FORCED INTO AN ASSOCIATION OF DUAL FIGHTING UNIONS WITHOUT A VOTE OF THE MEMBERSHIP LIKE WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO US AT AMERICAN AIRLINES. THIS ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM WAS HANDED TO YOU ON APRIL 15th, 2015. OVER 3 YEARS AGO.
We have all waited for the Association to produce that “quick” Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) that Sean Doyle TWU International Representative promised us at meetings held on the Tulsa Base. TWU promised us a ballot, promised us the Association was the fastest way to the JCBA. Now we know the truth. The Association requested AA Management to keep all proceedings in negotiations secret.
After 3 years of sitting and waiting, many of us on the Tulsa Base have finally had enough. Enough Lies, Enough Misinformation, Enough Broken Promises, Enough Silencing of our Local Leadership. The Association even removed our President Dale Danker from the negotiating room asking him to be the water boy for those still in the room. Talk about a slap in the face. This left Local 514 without a voice in the negotiating room.
American Airlines management began disclosing the details of the company’s proposal, and told us why they agreed to secret negotiations, and why they decided to come out with the facts. Basically the Association lied to management destroying the credibility of our union.
Management knows we don’t support this Association. Management knows we never got to vote. Management knows the Association is an illegitimate representation and that we didn’t choose this and allowed by the Railway Labor Act. And since Management has lost all respect for the Association, negotiations have indeed completely stalled.
The MEMBERSHIP NEEDS A SINGLE UNION, A SINGLE VOICE, AND ONE THAT IS VOTED IN BY THE MAJORITY.
NOT THIS ILLEGITMATE ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM NEVER BEFORE SEEN IN LABOR HISTORY.
THE SOLUTION
To obtain the vote promised by the Railway Labor Act, we must sign authorization cards showing interest of at least 50% plus one of the eligible members in any craft or class.
Our craft or class is designated by the National Mediation Board.
And this Craft or Class is made of everyone in Title 1 and Title 2 along with planners, schedulers, trainers, ect. Or it is easier to say everyone except Stock Clerks and Fleet Service Clerks whom have their own craft or class and can also do what we are doing on their own accord.
Here are some Highlights of the AMP Constitution and why we chose this path.
AMP is an independent union just like the American Airlines Pilots and Flight Attendants. Both have been respected and treated far better than we have since American and USAir merged.
AMP prohibits the blackout of communication to membership, including contract negotiation proposals from Management and the Union.
AMP will return the line station locals removed by TWU International. And the President and Vice-President of each Local will sit on a Board of Directors; giving a voice back to membership in different locations across the system.
AMP will be made up of only members from the Mechanic and Related craft or class. We will no longer be combined with other groups and called “ground workers”. We will demand the respect that maintenance professionals deserve. Our piece of the negotiation pie will no longer be looted by other work groups simply because they out number us. We will be the majority in AMP.
AMP will have direct election of National Officers and recall of National Officers. The days of good ol’e boy appointees will become a thing of the past.
AMP is an independent union only representing American Airlines members in the craft or class of Mechanic and Related. This will keep the focus of National Officers and Board of Directors only upon our needs as employees of American Airlines.
AMP dues base will be $1.4 million per month based on the 2 hours pay per month dues rate. $16 million per year. Remember both the AA Pilots and the AA Flight Attendants started similar independent unions from a startup and succeeded. We can too!
AMP will be One Union, One Voice voted on by the membership via the National Mediation Board ballot. No more Dual Fighting Unions destroying our jobs.
AMP will immediately request AA management to engage in negotiations to quickly complete contract negotiations. We will be focused only on Mechanic and Related issues instead of 7 work groups negotiating at once as with this illegitimate Association.
The Positives of AMP and making this move now are extremely beneficial to the Mechanic and Related Craft of Class that we cannot delay. We need to sign the authorization cards to get a ONE Union, ONE Voice vote by the membership and quickly correct this horrible wrong.
This is a grass roots movement to eliminate the Association. Which is nothing more than an illegitimate un-voted on abomination of Unionism as it is meant to be.
SIGN AN AMP CARD AND TURN IT IN TODAY!!!
“ You guys don’t know what you are doing!”
Quoted - Pat Kinnamon – Local 514 Chairman of Maintenance
We know exactly what we are doing, and can even explain why we are doing this.
THE PROBLEM
Here is a quote from the Railway Labor Act
The RAILWAY LABOR ACT § 152. General duties
Fourth….
Employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing. The majority of any craft or class of employees shall have the right to determine who shall be the representative of the craft or class for the purposes of this chapter.
THIS DOESN’T SAY WE CAN OR WILL BE FORCED INTO AN ASSOCIATION OF DUAL FIGHTING UNIONS WITHOUT A VOTE OF THE MEMBERSHIP LIKE WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO US AT AMERICAN AIRLINES. THIS ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM WAS HANDED TO YOU ON APRIL 15th, 2015. OVER 3 YEARS AGO.
We have all waited for the Association to produce that “quick” Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) that Sean Doyle TWU International Representative promised us at meetings held on the Tulsa Base. TWU promised us a ballot, promised us the Association was the fastest way to the JCBA. Now we know the truth. The Association requested AA Management to keep all proceedings in negotiations secret.
After 3 years of sitting and waiting, many of us on the Tulsa Base have finally had enough. Enough Lies, Enough Misinformation, Enough Broken Promises, Enough Silencing of our Local Leadership. The Association even removed our President Dale Danker from the negotiating room asking him to be the water boy for those still in the room. Talk about a slap in the face. This left Local 514 without a voice in the negotiating room.
American Airlines management began disclosing the details of the company’s proposal, and told us why they agreed to secret negotiations, and why they decided to come out with the facts. Basically the Association lied to management destroying the credibility of our union.
Management knows we don’t support this Association. Management knows we never got to vote. Management knows the Association is an illegitimate representation and that we didn’t choose this and allowed by the Railway Labor Act. And since Management has lost all respect for the Association, negotiations have indeed completely stalled.
The MEMBERSHIP NEEDS A SINGLE UNION, A SINGLE VOICE, AND ONE THAT IS VOTED IN BY THE MAJORITY.
NOT THIS ILLEGITMATE ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM NEVER BEFORE SEEN IN LABOR HISTORY.
THE SOLUTION
To obtain the vote promised by the Railway Labor Act, we must sign authorization cards showing interest of at least 50% plus one of the eligible members in any craft or class.
Our craft or class is designated by the National Mediation Board.
And this Craft or Class is made of everyone in Title 1 and Title 2 along with planners, schedulers, trainers, ect. Or it is easier to say everyone except Stock Clerks and Fleet Service Clerks whom have their own craft or class and can also do what we are doing on their own accord.
Here are some Highlights of the AMP Constitution and why we chose this path.
AMP is an independent union just like the American Airlines Pilots and Flight Attendants. Both have been respected and treated far better than we have since American and USAir merged.
AMP prohibits the blackout of communication to membership, including contract negotiation proposals from Management and the Union.
AMP will return the line station locals removed by TWU International. And the President and Vice-President of each Local will sit on a Board of Directors; giving a voice back to membership in different locations across the system.
AMP will be made up of only members from the Mechanic and Related craft or class. We will no longer be combined with other groups and called “ground workers”. We will demand the respect that maintenance professionals deserve. Our piece of the negotiation pie will no longer be looted by other work groups simply because they out number us. We will be the majority in AMP.
AMP will have direct election of National Officers and recall of National Officers. The days of good ol’e boy appointees will become a thing of the past.
AMP is an independent union only representing American Airlines members in the craft or class of Mechanic and Related. This will keep the focus of National Officers and Board of Directors only upon our needs as employees of American Airlines.
AMP dues base will be $1.4 million per month based on the 2 hours pay per month dues rate. $16 million per year. Remember both the AA Pilots and the AA Flight Attendants started similar independent unions from a startup and succeeded. We can too!
AMP will be One Union, One Voice voted on by the membership via the National Mediation Board ballot. No more Dual Fighting Unions destroying our jobs.
AMP will immediately request AA management to engage in negotiations to quickly complete contract negotiations. We will be focused only on Mechanic and Related issues instead of 7 work groups negotiating at once as with this illegitimate Association.
The Positives of AMP and making this move now are extremely beneficial to the Mechanic and Related Craft of Class that we cannot delay. We need to sign the authorization cards to get a ONE Union, ONE Voice vote by the membership and quickly correct this horrible wrong.
This is a grass roots movement to eliminate the Association. Which is nothing more than an illegitimate un-voted on abomination of Unionism as it is meant to be.
SIGN AN AMP CARD AND TURN IT IN TODAY!!!
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,479
- 5,264
C’mon guys Rock N Roll. Only 1 donation here in the last 7 days? Grass roots or not this is going to cost a lot of money to get done. Seriously.
From one seed a Forrest can grow. Get yer money in.
https://www.gofundme.com/9wqx2-eliminate-the-association
From one seed a Forrest can grow. Get yer money in.
https://www.gofundme.com/9wqx2-eliminate-the-association
rAAgged out
Newbie
- Jul 21, 2018
- 3
- 1
In fairness to those who think AMP is the way to go, first let me say, I have yet to find anyone who thinks the Association is good, and I agree with them. But to your point that now is the time to start over, I must disagree!! The Negotiation team has successfully negotiated dozens of tentative agreements and union busting Doug Parker and Robert Isom will not honor a single one if there is a representational change. Not only will AA enjoy SEVERAL more years of continued savings, they will be justified at pointing the finger at the membership.
Here is a short list of possible losses and if you think like the AMP leadership does, that "we'll use the language" don't count on it.
TA – Limited duty: OJI 90 days and 60 days for off the job injuries.
TA – Field Trip: 1.75 x hourly rate for entire trip including up to 8 hr. rest period (at hotel) every 16 hrs.
TA – Sick Time: 1600 hr. bank, 10 day’s accrual per yr. and full pay first day.
TA – Holidays: 10 Holidays paid at 2.5 hourly rate. Ability to bank holidays for later time off.
TA – Overtime: 1.5 times pay after 8 hr. 2 times pay after 12 and 2 times pay on second day off.
TA – Reduction in Force: All RIF’s done by basic seniority to any station you can hold. AMTO class goes away and all AMT's that bump to shops keep license premium.
TA – Furlough: If you are forced, or choose to take the street you will receive up to 17 week’s
pay and then bid any opening in the system.
TA – Shift Swap: Contractual shift swap which will not require managements approval.
TA – Interior Mechanic: Protects the guys in PHX only and expires through attrition.
TA – Filling of Vacancies
TA – Hours of service
TA – Seniority
TA – Qualifications
TA – Classifications
TA – Purpose of Agreement
TA – Training
TA – Status of Agreement
TA – Initial inspection (Base MX)
TA – Union Security
TA – Effect on prior agreement
TA – Termination of employment
TA – Computer programming AMT
TA – Fitness for Duty
TA – Bid Realignment
TA – Uniforms (Line MX)
Company offer of 6 weeks VC on the table while union continues to fight for 7.
A proper union scope proposal on the table.
9% company contribution to 401K.
Possibly $53 per hour for top AMT pay.
Take on healthcare once scope is TA'd.
AMP guys think going with a union who represents no one, has no by-laws, no local structure, a constitution yet to be finalized, and 75% of your dues money goes to the International level seems like a good thing to do. You think we are frustrated now? Just wait! and WAIT! and WAIT!
Changing horses in mid-stream is a VERY BAD IDEA!
Here is a short list of possible losses and if you think like the AMP leadership does, that "we'll use the language" don't count on it.
TA – Limited duty: OJI 90 days and 60 days for off the job injuries.
TA – Field Trip: 1.75 x hourly rate for entire trip including up to 8 hr. rest period (at hotel) every 16 hrs.
TA – Sick Time: 1600 hr. bank, 10 day’s accrual per yr. and full pay first day.
TA – Holidays: 10 Holidays paid at 2.5 hourly rate. Ability to bank holidays for later time off.
TA – Overtime: 1.5 times pay after 8 hr. 2 times pay after 12 and 2 times pay on second day off.
TA – Reduction in Force: All RIF’s done by basic seniority to any station you can hold. AMTO class goes away and all AMT's that bump to shops keep license premium.
TA – Furlough: If you are forced, or choose to take the street you will receive up to 17 week’s
pay and then bid any opening in the system.
TA – Shift Swap: Contractual shift swap which will not require managements approval.
TA – Interior Mechanic: Protects the guys in PHX only and expires through attrition.
TA – Filling of Vacancies
TA – Hours of service
TA – Seniority
TA – Qualifications
TA – Classifications
TA – Purpose of Agreement
TA – Training
TA – Status of Agreement
TA – Initial inspection (Base MX)
TA – Union Security
TA – Effect on prior agreement
TA – Termination of employment
TA – Computer programming AMT
TA – Fitness for Duty
TA – Bid Realignment
TA – Uniforms (Line MX)
Company offer of 6 weeks VC on the table while union continues to fight for 7.
A proper union scope proposal on the table.
9% company contribution to 401K.
Possibly $53 per hour for top AMT pay.
Take on healthcare once scope is TA'd.
AMP guys think going with a union who represents no one, has no by-laws, no local structure, a constitution yet to be finalized, and 75% of your dues money goes to the International level seems like a good thing to do. You think we are frustrated now? Just wait! and WAIT! and WAIT!
Changing horses in mid-stream is a VERY BAD IDEA!
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
- 3,543
- 2,410
Yes there are some good TA's there... Not all though.. The devil is in the details as they say. Most of the TA's you listed have no specifics..I do see and like some very favorable gains there, no doubt.
But the refusal by both sides to budge on medical and scope negates the rest.
The reason why these favorable T/A's are just that...AGREED to by the CO is because they pale in comparison to the costs of MEDICAL And SCOPE!
also, I am tired of hearing the "changing horses in mid-stream" argument.
Pro TWUers will always find a bad time to change representation.
Last edited:
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,479
- 5,264
Why do you guys keep thinking that no one is budging on Medical and Scope? The Association put out an update a few weeks ago where they said there were in depth discussions on Scope and they met again just this last week and will meet again possibly next week as well?
Maybe the Association needs to stop putting out these updates trying to stir up the Members if they’re not smart enough to understand that they are written for the express purpose to motivate sometimes.
