What the deal AMP

[WeAAsles]

It’s not like it’s never been done before.

A little history lesson:
Authorization to Act cards were sent out on April 12, 1963. The cards returned initially showed 84% of our pilots desired APA. The numbers climbed quickly and reached into the high nineties. By May 3, there were 1,285 of our members in bad standing or expelled from ALPA. On April 24, an application was filed with the NMB for recognition as the collective bargaining agent of the pilots on AAL.

On April 26, five of us were expelled from ALPA; Nick O'Connell, J. R. Lyons, Paul G. Atkins, Joe Garvey, and Bob Guba. We had continued to negotiate with the Company. This was against the orders of the Executive Committee, backed up by the Executive Board. It violated their policy.

After the March meeting the MEC was now a temporary Board of Directors of APA. The engineers would have no part of a joint agreement. We went back to negotiations to secure the benefits previously agreed to, for the pilots alone. All references to flight engineer were deleted. The engineers went back to their own negotiations.

Marty Seham, a young New York lawyer fresh out of Harvard, was hired to represent our legal needs. He was taking a chance with us as we had very little money to pay him at the time. It proved to be a very fortunate relationship. He has been protecting and advising us to this day. Ralph Harkenrider was hired by us, since he had been fired from ALPA over our situation. He was of invaluable assistance with all the administrative tasks we would be facing. A Board of Directors meeting on June 4 and 5, approved John Reddington's proposal for Loss of License insurance with Mass Casualty. Jim Quinlivan provided the other insurances. They still provide these valuable insurance services and benefits for APA's pilots and retirees.

There was a request by ALPA that the NMB defer passing on the certification application of APA until after a decision by the Court. On May 24, the NMB denied their request. On June 12, the NMB reported that of the 1,571 pilots eligible to vote, APA had authorization from 1,334. The NMB ordered an election. ALPA took injunctive action against the NMB. It was denied and lifted by court action on September 16.

Our By-Laws were adopted, pending ratification by all pilots on AAL, during our Board meeting on October 22 through 25, 1963, in San Francisco. The proposed By-Laws were put together in Joe Gumber's bar, The Swinging Door, by Bob Hoyt and Chick Luna among others. George Hof wrote the Preamble. They were ratified by the membership on November 26 and became official.

Although the official certification would not be given APA until November 13, 1963, American Airlines recognized APA as the collective bargaining representative for all AAL pilots and copilots on July 9, 1963 by signing our contract. We had accomplished the first hourly reduction, with no reduction in pay, since 1934. The 75 hours would be phased in on the jets first. Later we would include all equipment. There was a dues check-off provision included in our contract which would alleviate our financial bind and stop the temporary assessment setup. Our Retirement Plan was made completely non-contributory with a 10% "B" plan.

The Negotiating Committee had an "opportunity" when the Company placed the BAC 111 in service in late 1963. The Company wanted to fly it with a two-man crew. By mutual consent, the contract was opened early for this purpose as well as bringing our Electra and piston pay up a bit. An agreement was signed unanimously on November 19, Nick's birthday, which brought pay on all equipment to the highest in the industry. It was estimated to cost the Company in excess of 4% increase in payroll.

A Board of Directors meeting in Phoenix, February 18, 19 and 20, 1964, set up various committees and named nominees for the election of National Officers. The elections by the entire membership were verified by the Honest Ballot Association and the first elected National Officers were Nicholas J. O'Connell, President; J. Richard Lyons, Vice President; and Paul G. Atkins, Secretary-Treasurer. On June 1, APA moved into its new home office in the Chrysler Building in New York City.

Negotiations had been going on for some time during late 1963 and most of 1964 in an effort to complete the full understanding which would settle once and for all the Crew Complement question on American Airlines. We had told the court we did not want the flight engineers in our union unless it be of their own free will.

The eventual agreement (known as the "Tripartite"), exactly as written in the Supplemental "C" of the current agreement, was signed by all three parties on December 11, 1964. This peaceful settlement after years of public hearings, strikes, threats of strikes, and acrimony on other airlines was a tribute to all concerned including American Airlines and the NMB. It was the first permanent settlement in the industry. Basically, the flight engineer pay is a fixed percentage of copilot pay; they accept the same rules and working conditions as we may negotiate for our pilots and pay a service fee. There is a no strike clause for the flight engineer. All future hires are pilots on the pilots seniority list and are represented by APA. The engineers did not want to join the pilots retirement plan, so they negotiated that feature by themselves and otherwise just conformed their contract with ours. As part of this settlement, the American pilots have agreed to respect the independence of the flight engineers and their Association. This arrangement has worked well for 25 years, with no problems.

During the many negotiating sessions held to accomplish the Tripartite agreement, we negotiated several additional benefits in the working condition area, i.e., the Substitution of Equipment protection. We obtained an additional 1% of a pilot's gross earnings to be put in the pilots "B" fund for a total of 11%, July 1, 1965. A nice little "kicker" just before the amendable date of July 8, 1965.

The next three contracts put us well ahead of the industry in all departments while we doubled our pilots numbers. Basically, the same team of Negotiators were there from the fifties. It has been 30 years since the last strike on American Airlines. The "prophets of gloom" were wrong.

Class dismissed.

Uh huh.

“On June 12, the NMB reported that of the 1,571 pilots eligible to vote, APA had authorization from 1,334”

Now how many people do you have eligible to vote today? 18,000, 19,000? And how many locations are they in?

Now how much have the laws changed since 1965? (53 years ago)

Class is NEVER dismissed.

Edit 1963 (55 years ago)

 

[WeAAsles]

From 1971. Villanova Law.

Of particular interest.

Page 253 - 9
Page 260 -C Recognition of Bargaining Rights
And 266 IV - Airlines

https://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1926&context=vlr

I doubt any of you will read it but you may find the History interesting if you do?

Now if you’ll excuse me I need to go smash some bags.

 

[swamt]

Evidently you are the one who lacks information. I said there was not a finalized constitution and after my post revision 2 has been released, revised by 5 guys in TULE that know what's best for us all. I'm sure revision 3 and 4 will be out soon. I have ask for the bylaws and been told "they will be written by the board of directors" and they don't exist yet. The TWU sends 70% of dues to the local level and 30% to the International so the fact AMP leaders ( who ever they are ) think Locals can represent the members on 25% are misguided. And don't ask about legal representation because they say they don't need that yet! As for LUS guys go to CLT and check the card count. This deal goes through it will be five years for a new deal but that's ok, I've got great healthcare.

And it will still take at least 5 years with current asso. to get an AIP or T/A. At least with AMP the membership will get every detail on how nego's are going and who is actually holding up progression.
He was correct about never a good time to change representation, but now is the best time before you guys get your scope dismantled, outsourcing dramatically increased, and medical cost increasing or even getting worse coverage.
As we all know more folks will start to come out (newbies) as the card count picks up. Happens every time the card drives pick up momentum. So, it appears to be doing well as the "newbies" are starting to show their colors. The asso. is starting to get worried about losing the mechanics. Once AA mechanics get rid of them, then no airline mechanics will be represented by either TWU or IAM, finally...

 

[Traymark]

http://www.ampnational.org/

 

[bigjets]

Just read update. It seems like the association is now fighting for the ramp scope clause. Remember when we had our own locals but they were just taken away from us.

Now our contract is directly linked to ramp contract again. If this latest update doesn’t convince you that mechs require their own union, there’s nothing that will convince you.

Nothing against ramp, but there is a shortage of licensed AMTs, FSCs are easy to get.

 

[bigjets]

http://www.ampnational.org/

Say if you didn’t work at Tulsa, how would you sign a card ?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Say if you didn’t work at Tulsa, how would you sign a card ?

Cards have been sent around the system. I believe most stations have them by now. There is also a downloadable card to fill out and mail.

 

[MetalMover]

Just read update. It seems like the association is now fighting for the ramp scope clause. Remember when we had our own locals but they were just taken away from us.

Now our contract is directly linked to ramp contract again. If this latest update doesn’t convince you that mechs require their own union, there’s nothing that will convince you.

Nothing against ramp, but there is a shortage of licensed AMTs, FSCs are easy to get.

Wow and I thought fleet was being held up bu M&R!

No mention of medical in update I see?

 

[Buck]

Say if you didn’t work at Tulsa, how would you sign a card ?

Cards can be printed off of AMP's web page. Where are you? Cards are already sent to the larger stations.

 

[Traymark]

Say if you didn’t work at Tulsa, how would you sign a card ?

Join the FB page:
Eliminate The TWU/IAM Association

There is a PDF file for a card or just message one of the Admins and see who has cards at your station.
They will answer you rather quickly.
Cards are not hard to find.

The FB page also has many useful pdf files that debunk all of the TWU misinformation.

 

[MetalMover]

Just read update. It seems like the association is now fighting for the ramp scope clause. Remember when we had our own locals but they were just taken away from us.

Now our contract is directly linked to ramp contract again. If this latest update doesn’t convince you that mechs require their own union, there’s nothing that will convince you.

Nothing against ramp, but there is a shortage of licensed AMTs, FSCs are easy to get.

Strength in numbers!!!!!! LMFAO!

 

[MetalMover]

Apparently there was a phone conference yesterday by the ASSociation regarding negotiations. They are touting to be 70% T/A'd with the remaining issues tied to economics and scope. According to my local union rep, they also addressed the pending AMP card drive.
Here comes the "IT IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO START A CARD DRIVE AND CHANGE UNIONS WHEN WE ARE "JUST SO GOD-DARNED CLOSED TO A CONTRACT" bullcrap! and "YOU KNOW, IF YOU GUYS GO WITH A NEW UNION, THE COMPANY WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE AND SET NEGOTIATIONS BACK ANOTHER THREE YEARS" nonsense.
If the ASSociation gets a T/A, fine....If not, fine.....Either way it is time for new representation..

I for one am not falling for the "sky is falling" song anymore!

 

[swamt]

Apparently there was a phone conference yesterday by the ASSociation regarding negotiations. They are touting to be 70% T/A'd with the remaining issues tied to economics and scope. According to my local union rep, they also addressed the pending AMP card drive.
Here comes the "IT IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO START A CARD DRIVE AND CHANGE UNIONS WHEN WE ARE "JUST SO GOD-DARNED CLOSED TO A CONTRACT" bullcrap! and "YOU KNOW, IF YOU GUYS GO WITH A NEW UNION, THE COMPANY WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE AND SET NEGOTIATIONS BACK ANOTHER THREE YEARS" nonsense.
If the ASSociation gets a T/A, fine....If not, fine.....Either way it is time for new representation..

I for one am not falling for the "sky is falling" song anymore!

They can claim to be "so close to a contract now" all they want to. The asso. has already admitted that these final issues left open, economics, scope, medical, CC/Lead seniority integration etc..., will take the longest to get through, and will take about the same amount of time as the articles already T/A'd.
Don't fall for it guys, at this point the asso will do and say anything to try to keep the card collection down. Now is the time...

 

[MetalMover]

They can claim to be "so close to a contract now" all they want to. The asso. has already admitted that these final issues left open, economics, scope, medical, CC/Lead seniority integration etc..., will take the longest to get through, and will take about the same amount of time as the articles already T/A'd.
Don't fall for it guys, at this point the asso will do and say anything to try to keep the card collection down. Now is the time...

Funny how things are moving at a more rapid pace since the AMP thing!

 

[Traymark]