What Next

[Boeingguy]

Credit cards used to offer an insurance option to have them paid off if you lost your job due to the employer's bankruptcy. Don't know if they still do, but if so, transfer your debt to them as much if you can and then let the insurance do it's thing. See if your mortgage holder offers the same.

Friend of mine did this at his previous airline that tanked and it worked out for him. (The mortgage deal wasn't to pay it off, but payments were made for him for 6 months).

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

As for PC, I am an advocate of free speech. and speaking freely often offends someone someplace. And my response to the squealing is "Toughen up bucko" The world is a cruel and often intolerant. You can't win with that crowd. I mentioned on a trip report thread that I sat and chatted with a "Very attractive woman of color" and got hammered for that. Seems the poster Assumed the lady was black. Woman of Color is the PC term for anyone who is not caucasian and still I got blistered.

So now if she is black I'll say so. Like I said you can't win so I'm not trying.

Did you ever think of just saying I talked to this woman at the airport or on a airplane? I mean what does color have to do with talking to her? If she is white do you say that also? I guess I am just trying to figure out why there is even a distinction between white and black or any race in the context of your example.

You might get a kick out of this. I love the definition of a Liberal and Reaganite.
http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=178

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Every time one door closes, another opens. This company is about to close it's doors, but all thru life, nothing stays the same and other doors open. You may not see them yet, but they are there. Im not worried. Its the pilots with their ex-wives, second and third homes, kids in college, and the BMW payments that might have to step down to our life style. Wecome to the real world.

 

[javaboy]

whats next? anyone claiming to know is full of you know what. hoewever i think too many people have written off UAIR once again prematurely (just my opinion ).
1. UAL will wipe their pensions
2. UAL will still cut 20% or more of their employees
3. UAL will cut wages further
4. DAL will increase the BK talk to force wages cuts on the order of 30% (or we go to court and risk pensions)
5. the above actions result in flight reduction after the summer (as evidenced by 25% of SONG flights stopped sept)
6. these factors will allow UAIR to recapture approximately .5-.7% market share which will result in slightly better than breakeven cash flow

7. there is still work to be done in preperation for this which your unions are currently working on.

the key here is to make it to the high cash flow months of nov/dec with a stabilized balance sheet ,UAIR would then become the "vulture" waiting for DAL,UAL castoffs

8.CAL is more in danger of folding than UAIR, they do NOT have the luxury of filing BK a third time....Mr Bethune has indicated cash flow is bad enough to warrant layoffs..

the industry as a whole is still in a bad way those that adapt their business model quickly and maintain open to change as the environment changes will survive.

 

[pitguy]

Bob,

Looking to attract a F/A huh? What happened to the lady that worked at Wendy's? I thought you were getting married. The kids are not going to fit in that tiny car are they?




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I was reading further up in the thread about the flight attendant couple and not being ready for job lose and it is disheartening to hear. I know everyone's situation is different, and not everyone was able to prepare for what may be coming, but everyone had to see the writing on the wall as to the future around here. I have little sorrow for folks that refuse to spend and prepare prudently for the future. I am not saying that is their case as I know some folks have personal, family and medical issues to deal with that could warrent such a situation.

 

[Seatacus]

What is next? Well, for a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant who is married to a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant, there is not much hope of a job that even pays at half of what this one once did, or even does now.

Hey...don't sell yourselves short. You both may have many talents or experience that you acquired over the years that may be of use in some other occupation. You may be surprised at the things you can do.

 

[RWerksman]

Preparing for another job is like preparing for the SATs -- most of the time its like throwing time down the crapper.

Keep the resume updated, an eye out for something that seems interesting, and a good attitude -- thats a plan B.



Hey Bob, a wise man once told me, "To hell with that marrige crap. Just buy her a damn house and run away as fast as you can."

 

[youngblood]

Hey...don't sell yourselves short. You both may have many talents or experience that you acquired over the years that may be of use in some other occupation. You may be surprised at the things you can do.

I agree with Seastus. Don't ever sell yourself short. It's amazing what people can do when forced to. I'm saying this from experience and at the risk of getting diced from some posters will share some personnal moments. Perhaps some will be find it useful.

Before I do that, let me just add my Plan B. I have had some job offers. The most appealing is not opening up for another nine months. Won't say where or how it was offered - but let's just say it was recently because I displayed good skills in a bad situation. I have a choice to move half way across the country to teach. This is my last option because of distance from family. Another option is substitute teaching although this does not offer benies and I need them. Being laid off will pay my bills and give me an opportunity to go back to school and finish my Masters with possible financial assistance for tuition.

That being said let me get personnal. When I was just married, and had just my son to care for, I held a decent position at a company full time. My son became very ill and needed care. I was fired for tending to him and missing days of work (even with a doctor's excuse) It's more complicated than that but I'll save it. Our income was cut in half. Somehow we managed. (To this day I am convinced they were prayers answered that saved our butts.) A year later my mother nearly lost her life from a ruptured brain anhurism. Out of a job, now with two children, in the midst of losing my place of residence because the owner was selling, and struggling financially. I managed two households and took care of my mother. I moved home with her to help and in the process strained an already struggling marriage. Again - convinced of devine intervention. Two years later, now with three children, I get a call to go pick up my husband from the emergency room. He hurt his back. Three surgeries, a spinal cord stimulator implant, 20 different doctors, morphine for pain, neurontin for nerve damage. A week apart from each other we both lose our jobs. (me being laid off from UAIR) We didn't lose our house or car. I was able to make payments on my bills. Again, I believe devine intervention. Currently I am the sole bread winner. We depleted our savings to pay off house and cars and eliminate debt. Yes, a blessing to be able to do so. My husband is permanently disabled and was currently turned down for disability. We have begun the legal process again. In all this, I have come to one conclusion. We will be okay.

My reason for the post isn't for gloating nor sympathy. It is simply to say this:

You are who you make yourself to be. You can only succeed where you believe yourself successful. Sometimes "a plan" isn't enough. You have to have faith in yourself and God. I have always believed that God will never give you more than you can handle and sometimes it is the trials and tribulations that make us who we really are. Have faith and perserverance and never fail to realize your potential.

 

[javaboy]

What is next? Well, for a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant who is married to a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant, there is not much hope of a job that even pays at half of what this one once did, or even does now.

Pay off bills? Okay, send me some extra money and I will. It cost over $20,000 a year to put a kid through college. That is in a state school and he has a loan for the tuition. But someone has to pay for living expenses, an automoble, insurance, etc. (oh and he only drives the auto to go to work to pay off the tuition loan, he rides his bike to school even in the rain)

For all those of you that have paid off everything and are ready to burn this place down, good for you that you actually had extra money and are now prepared. For those of us that are striving to make ends meet, (Between us we took a $25,000 dollar a year cut, wow we just paid for a junior reserve to sit around and not work) going to school to learn something new is expensive. We don't have any toys to sell, unless you count our cars, but then how would we get to a new job?

Does anyone know what unemployement pays? What do I do when that runs out? Wait until I can collect my retirement? What retirement, I heard they are going to take that too? Social Security? When I'm 67, if that isn't bankrupt.

Nope, there aren't too many jobs out there that we are qualified for. There aren't too many jobs out there period. I have been looking, I have been preparing as best as I can. But, I am willing to try to help this airline get back on course, and I am over playing the blame game. Look around you, Jet Blue is only 5 or 6 years old. They don't have to go to employees for cuts, their employees make minimum wage. They have no senior people. Even Southwest is only 30 years old, so how many topped out flight attendants can they possibly have?

The world of airline business is changing, the business customer isn't willing to foot the bill anymore. Things have to change, we either change with it or give it up to let someone else take up where we left off. And they are waiting in the wings licking their lips waiting for us to self destruct. Which is exactly what we are doing!

No Virginia, their is no Santa Claus!!!!!!!

First off, thanks for your decades of service. because of people like you the airline(s) have a wonderful history.

That being said the following is merely an opinion. Some things might surpise you in one way or another. The hand you have been dealt surely is not a great one but on Independence Day, America is what YOU make of it. There are no guarentees, Luck sometimes prevails over perservance, but i have never met and unsuccesfull hard worker who refused to give up ever in any endevour, from sports, to work, to family. that is one of the great things about america you a free to choose, choose to try, choose not to try, to do anything or nothing.

Thoughts are in different color

What is next? Well, for a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant who is married to a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant, there is not much hope of a job that even pays at half of what this one once did, or even does now.

please see bill cosby on this one. College, Technical College, even specialized classes to help you learn new skills are available in every state including some paid for by the state. Sorry but some people choose to go to school others did not (not taking away from those that "were forced to work due to useen circumstances")

Pay off bills? Okay, send me some extra money and I will. It cost over $20,000 a year to put a kid through college. That is in a state school and he has a loan for the tuition. But someone has to pay for living expenses, an automoble, insurance, etc. (oh and he only drives the auto to go to work to pay off the tuition loan, he rides his bike to school even in the rain)

Where does it say a parent must by law pay for the childs education? I paid for my college through loans and jobs. yes i had quite abit of debt upon graduation but i paid that off too. I'm not going to address the car. Ask around campus i'm sure you will find students there with no car, and have to work and get loans just to get by. It is nice if you can offer more to your child than you got and hopefully this will be the case for most everyone. yet you can go to college in many ways. if it were easy we would pay money and get the degree but thats not the way it works anythng ANYTHING worth while must be worked hard for otherwise it is not appreciated once achieved including education.

For all those of you that have paid off everything and are ready to burn this place down, good for you that you actually had extra money and are now prepared. For those of us that are striving to make ends meet, (Between us we took a $25,000 dollar a year cut, wow we just paid for a junior reserve to sit around and not work) going to school to learn something new is expensive. We don't have any toys to sell, unless you count our cars, but then how would we get to a new job?

I could go into my situation, but why all the employees took paycuts you are not the only ones. moreover talk to the ones that took the 100% pay cut, have no insurance and have childern to support, mortgages to pay and so on.do I do when that runs out? Wait until I can collect my retirement? What retirement, I heard they are going to take that too? Social Security? When I'm 67, if that isn't bankrupt.

America is running about 5.6% unemployment that means 94% are working sometimes you dont get to do what YOU want to do but there are opportunities out there you might surpise yourself if you give it a shot.

Nope, there aren't too many jobs out there that we are qualified for. There aren't too many jobs out there period.

I know that is not a fully true statement. suffice to say opportunities are out there you may not like them, it may not be in your choosen field, perhaps a return to school to change your vocation or sharpen or gain new skills to be applied elsewhere. i see 2 ways a looking at this. 1. i have been screwed and got an unfair shake and its not fair (which i wholehartedly agree) (for its affects read A320s posts you can see him grow angry that his way of life is now directly being affected and dislikes it immensely) or 2. ok its a pile of lemons but new challengers await, lets see what i am capable of or what can i do, or how far can i go now. or what is it like outside aviation. There is nothing that says you or I for that matter can not work elsewhere for a while only to return to the industry if so desired at a later date.

I have been looking, I have been preparing as best as I can. But, I am willing to try to help this airline get back on course, and I am over playing the blame game. Look around you, Jet Blue is only 5 or 6 years old. They don't have to go to employees for cuts, their employees make minimum wage. They have no senior people. Even Southwest is only 30 years old, so how many topped out flight attendants can they possibly have?

Southwest is the most Unioinized airline in the World (based on % of union vs total employees) Southwest employs the highest paid 737 pilots in the world. Southwest pays more (w2) on average for Pilots, Mechanics.. (i do not have current F/A data) however they are slated for a 30% INCREASE in pay next few years

JetBlue you are correct is only 5 years (4 operational) hence "no senior employees" but that does not mean you can not look at at Top of Scale rates and predict with accuarcy what they might be making then and compare them at that point. of course that is years in the future. just for reference though they are far from the lowest paid remember you must add compensation that normally when "your" company holds the LCCs up in comparission seem to forget about. i am talking about 150% of pay rates paid above a certain hour mark, profit sharing, matching 401k contriubutions, options that vest and can be exercised before seperation with company (years past at U not UAIR).

Reside yourself to the fact that when it comes to "blame" Labor (no matter what industry) will probably be at fault. sometimes rightfully so, most of the time not. it is Mangaments job to say that. In excellent companies that exceed expectattions worldwide that simply is not the case they change managment teams, they dont "fire the players" (see New York Yankees, GE, MSFT, DELL, INTC) Great Managers inspire , motivate and lead by example, poor ones point the finger (not saying which finger) and blame others for poor performance.
The world of airline business is changing, the business customer isn't willing to foot the bill anymore. Things have to change, we either change with it or give it up to let someone else take up where we left off. And they are waiting in the wings licking their lips waiting for us to self destruct. Which is exactly what we are doing!

you hit the nail right on the head, the business is changing and companies must adapt (not just airline but all companies) those that dont fail and go away, those that do continue to exsist and survive then thrive in times of good. Cutting wages and salaries will help the cashflow maybe enough maybe not but re read your statement "The world of airline business is changing, the business customer isn't willing to foot the bill anymore" now apply that statement to UAIR what exactly are they doing to make people think of USAirways when they want to travel on an airplane? How you make them go to USAirways website before Southwests, How do you make them compare the 2 services and decide that UAIR provides a better value or service for the dollar? is it simply low fares? UAIR charges less than SWA now but yet that is not the PERCEPTION of the consumer. Are you telling them what they get for their travel dollar vs what they get for the same dollar elsewhere? or is it simply we need to lower costs (wages) i dont see management hammering Airbus, or Boeing, or the 5 largest states they serve to lower landing fees or get tax breaks, it merely appears that labor is the only thing they know how to reduce? or merely that is the one they can control the easiest?

No Virginia, their is no Santa Claus!!!!!!!

Finally, a simple thank you to all those people that serve that make our country great and safe for me and my family on this Independence Day (the armed services, police, fire, yes airline people who got no thank you for returning to the air post 9/11 even though more airline personel died on 9/11 than police officers)
God Bless the USA

 

[PSA1979]

JavaBoy,
Let me address some of your thoughts. You are right, it doesn't say anywhere that a parent has to pay for a child's education or provide a car. But when my son was in high school (and the airline business was doing fairly well) I made a deal with him, that if he got good grades and maintained them, got into a good college, and paid the student loans, I would pay the expenses. He is going to be a senior in college this year and has maintained a B+ average. How can I possibly go back on my word? He understands how things are with this industry and that is why he works every summer, weekends, and during breaks. He uses all his Christmas money (that's what he asks for every year) to help pay the college bills. The University he attends is so far away from any of his family, he must have a vehicle to even get to an airport that US serves. (at least a 4 hour drive)

I do have other skills, but unfortunately they were marketable when I was much younger. Now, they don't hire 50+ year old police officers (especially if they are gray haired women) and I don't think my body could take the physical abuse anymore.

I'm sure I could get a job at a fast food place, a convenience store, Walmart,etc.. but like I said in my earlier post, there are no jobs out there that pay even half of what I am making now without a degree or managerial skills.

I realized everyone must make their decisions based on their own personal situations. If this airline shuts the doors based on what was voted by the masses, then so be it. I can't change any one's mind, nor can they change mine. I just think it would be a shame to send so many great people out on the street, when I know those people are the only reason this company has lasted as long as it has.

 

[ktflyhome]

PSA1979: Well, thanks for taking the $25,000 a month pay cut for us Junior Reserves to sit around and not work. I assure you it was the CLT Blockholders, holier than thou, southern mentalitiy that voted for this assinine contract to begin with. And once again, our Southern bro's will sell us all out to AmericaWest contracts. I would have you know, that the Reserves at U have been hit the hardest of all and no longer even have Seniortiy.

You want to talk about a pay cut. You have NO idea. Between the "2" of you, you have taken a $25,000 pay cut. PAHLEEEEZZZE!!! How about 38-40% on your OWN.????

Getting to my Plan B: Well, as I have said in previous posts, I have purchased a RED LIGHT for my front porch. Prostitution is Prostitution!!!!!! Just waiting to collect unemployement, should I have some slow nights.

 

[javaboy]

PSA,

i hope that you take these posts (after all this is just a webboard) in the mannor and tone in which i endeavor to project. Which is that you nor anyone else should sell themselves short. And trying to encourage you to attempt new things you may surprise even yourself. a quick monster.com search of jobs in PIT reveal 49 PAGES of jobs.

Do not let the failure of teams of management that have tried to run this once proud airline reflect on you personally. I submit a challenge to you to achieve better. If your child is smart enough to get into college then i am absolutely sure that he or she can appreciate the unfairly changing economic enviorment in which you are in. while no parent ever wishes to promise something and not deliver to one's childern sometimes that is what must happen. perhaps as a compromise you can offer a car as soon as other employment is secured or something else. Kids are smarter than you think.

i submit to you a challenge to post here this christmas about how much things have changed, because YOU made the change. you can go along for the ride or become the driver. I maintain it is better to try and fail than to never have tried at all. I also think that you child will respect that as well. I have seen both sides where one rides the train of dispair to places you just dont want to go, and the other side how once they have stepped out thier lives changed forever and realized that in the end UAIR is just one of many thousands of companies in the USA. and thats all it is, a place of employment, yeah ok friends can work their, you have spent much of your life their building it up. just dont take the failure of bad managment to equate you your own personal abilities.


good luck and god bless

 

[cavalier]

I have purchased a RED LIGHT for my front porch. Prostitution is Prostitution!!!!!! Just waiting to collect unemployement, should I have some slow nights.

I have my GPS set on a porch in WV with the ETA being soon!

 

[PITbull]

JavaBoy,




I'm sure I could get a job at a fast food place, a convenience store, Walmart,etc.. but like I said in my earlier post, there are no jobs out there that pay even half of what I am making now without a degree or managerial skills.

PSA1979,

The operating phrase is: what you are "making now".


Rest assured, the cost target of $116 million will translate into your job being worth half the pay of what you receive now. The 13 and less yr f/a will not be taking that kind of wage cut. Consequentely,the cost savings the co. needs will come from the "topped out" f/as.

If we go to the table and these concessions pass, you will have to get out of your "comfort zone" and look for a job that you will surely find that pays better than U, and you may get to be home on weekends and holidays.

 

[jimntx]

I realized everyone must make their decisions based on their own personal situations. If this airline shuts the doors based on what was voted by the masses, then so be it. I can't change any one's mind, nor can they change mine. I just think it would be a shame to send so many great people out on the street, when I know those people are the only reason this company has lasted as long as it has.

PSA1979,
If it might help at all here is my story...

1. English Lit major at the undergraduate level (and there are those who would say that is the same as uneducated)--very well educated, but didn't really know how to do anything.
Careers:
1. Actor (glamorous way of saying waiter)
2. Social worker
3. Computer Programmer trainee to Senior Analyst
4. IT Consultant
5. Flight Attendant

#3 lasted the longest - almost 20 years. Along the way I also attended one graduate school of business and taught a course in another as an adjunct.

The ending of one career does not mean the end of meaningful gainful employment. You would be surprised at how the skills you developed as a flight attendant will translate to other fields.

As a friend of mine says, When God closes one door, he always opens another, but sometimes you have to wait awhile in the hall.