What Next
- Thread starter firstamendment
- Start date
Harry Callahan
Veteran
My plan is none of your........businessfirstamendment said:
UsPerfEngr
Member
- Jul 2, 2003
- 30
- 0
Life after US Airways?
Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Claus!
All you have to do is believe!! (in yourself that is… Santa won’t put a job under your tree this year…)
Normally I’m the most pessimistic person in my group, but only where our companies future is concerned, not my own. Maybe that’s why I’ve dusted-off the old resume. I’ve put my feelers out, called/E-mailed friends in the industry (old and new) to see what’s out there. The results of my efforts showed that if UAIR fails there will be a life in aviation for me (if I choose to stay with it).
Most of my airline colleagues are as worried about their futures as we are here at UAIR. Employment with the surviving legacy carriers (and I do mean SURVIVING as I believe that at least one if not two of the big five just isn’t going to be around by 2007) will NEVER return to the gravy job(s) they were before 9/11. The days of the big money are fading fast. We are all trying to hold onto what we can, but the reality has set-in for me that it’s all but gone. The only thing that keeps me here at all is the great bunch of people I work with everyday and the opportunity to live close to friends and family (born and raised in the mountains and “Happy Valley’s†of PA).
Still there are aviation jobs out there if I want them. I’m lucky, I guess, to possess a unique and high level skill-set. Performance engineering doesn’t seem to have as large a following as pilots/FA’s/mechs/etc.
A fellow perf. guru from TWA (who thankfully was able to retire before that once great airline fell) once told me that there were less than 100 english speaking perf engr.’s in the world. With all of the cut-backs in my profession, (caused more from the advances in computers and technology than terrorists or low-cost carriers) I would hazard a guess that this number hasn’t increased much since the glory days of TWA, Braniff, and Pan Am. Will I have to leave the area I love and call my home to stay in aviation? You bet.
The only industry jobs out there now are with vendors and manufacturers. Embraer (Sao Paulo, Brazil) could probably use the expertise I’ve gained working on our launch of their EMB170 (especially when JetBlue starts operating those 190’s). Bombardier (Montreal, Canada) has already approached me to see if I’d be interested in working for them (the EMB170/190 is really putting a pounding on their CRJ sales and they are looking at designing a new 70-100 seat jet to better compete with Embraer). Cessna (Wichita, KS) has a job posting on their website for a perf. engr. And the folks at Jeppesen (Denver, CO) have multiple openings for those who understand how to make computers spit-out the right sequence of numbers to get airplanes off the ground.
Now, none of what I’ve said so far is meant to boast. I know I’m a unique case. My profession will always be in demand as long as people build planes, fly them, and more importantly “regulate†their capabilities. Many of you simply may not have the choice to just move to where the work is. To those of you I say consider what I’m calling my plan “Câ€. Go back to school. If the trade/skill-set you have isn’t in demand, then get another. I know… I know… I like my current job too. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have gotten into it in the first place. But if it won’t pay the bills you have to find something else. The average salary today for my profession is around $80K and after the NEXT INEVITABLE PAYCUT (capitalized because I am a salary employee who can only cast a vote against wage concessions by walking out the door), I’ll be lucky to be at $50K.
Keep in mind it's never too late to learn. The worst “catch phrase†I’ve ever heard is “you can’t teach a old dog new tricksâ€. What nonsense! If that were true then I’d long ago have been left in the dust. If I can learn to use these confound computers (what I consider to be the bane of my profession) on my own without any formal training, then I’m sure I could get myself a degree in computer science, software engineering or something computer-related that could allow me to live in the area I love and still be able to find work that would pay near the $80K figure.
The best advice I can offer anyone is “Failing to Plan is Planning to Failâ€. Start the ball rolling on a new career as soon as you can…
Regards,
USPerfEngr
Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Claus!
All you have to do is believe!! (in yourself that is… Santa won’t put a job under your tree this year…)
Normally I’m the most pessimistic person in my group, but only where our companies future is concerned, not my own. Maybe that’s why I’ve dusted-off the old resume. I’ve put my feelers out, called/E-mailed friends in the industry (old and new) to see what’s out there. The results of my efforts showed that if UAIR fails there will be a life in aviation for me (if I choose to stay with it).
Most of my airline colleagues are as worried about their futures as we are here at UAIR. Employment with the surviving legacy carriers (and I do mean SURVIVING as I believe that at least one if not two of the big five just isn’t going to be around by 2007) will NEVER return to the gravy job(s) they were before 9/11. The days of the big money are fading fast. We are all trying to hold onto what we can, but the reality has set-in for me that it’s all but gone. The only thing that keeps me here at all is the great bunch of people I work with everyday and the opportunity to live close to friends and family (born and raised in the mountains and “Happy Valley’s†of PA).
Still there are aviation jobs out there if I want them. I’m lucky, I guess, to possess a unique and high level skill-set. Performance engineering doesn’t seem to have as large a following as pilots/FA’s/mechs/etc.
A fellow perf. guru from TWA (who thankfully was able to retire before that once great airline fell) once told me that there were less than 100 english speaking perf engr.’s in the world. With all of the cut-backs in my profession, (caused more from the advances in computers and technology than terrorists or low-cost carriers) I would hazard a guess that this number hasn’t increased much since the glory days of TWA, Braniff, and Pan Am. Will I have to leave the area I love and call my home to stay in aviation? You bet.The only industry jobs out there now are with vendors and manufacturers. Embraer (Sao Paulo, Brazil) could probably use the expertise I’ve gained working on our launch of their EMB170 (especially when JetBlue starts operating those 190’s). Bombardier (Montreal, Canada) has already approached me to see if I’d be interested in working for them (the EMB170/190 is really putting a pounding on their CRJ sales and they are looking at designing a new 70-100 seat jet to better compete with Embraer). Cessna (Wichita, KS) has a job posting on their website for a perf. engr. And the folks at Jeppesen (Denver, CO) have multiple openings for those who understand how to make computers spit-out the right sequence of numbers to get airplanes off the ground.
Now, none of what I’ve said so far is meant to boast. I know I’m a unique case. My profession will always be in demand as long as people build planes, fly them, and more importantly “regulate†their capabilities. Many of you simply may not have the choice to just move to where the work is. To those of you I say consider what I’m calling my plan “Câ€. Go back to school. If the trade/skill-set you have isn’t in demand, then get another. I know… I know… I like my current job too. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have gotten into it in the first place. But if it won’t pay the bills you have to find something else. The average salary today for my profession is around $80K and after the NEXT INEVITABLE PAYCUT (capitalized because I am a salary employee who can only cast a vote against wage concessions by walking out the door), I’ll be lucky to be at $50K.
Keep in mind it's never too late to learn. The worst “catch phrase†I’ve ever heard is “you can’t teach a old dog new tricksâ€. What nonsense! If that were true then I’d long ago have been left in the dust. If I can learn to use these confound computers (what I consider to be the bane of my profession) on my own without any formal training, then I’m sure I could get myself a degree in computer science, software engineering or something computer-related that could allow me to live in the area I love and still be able to find work that would pay near the $80K figure.
The best advice I can offer anyone is “Failing to Plan is Planning to Failâ€. Start the ball rolling on a new career as soon as you can…
Regards,
USPerfEngr
jetman3133
Member
- Dec 28, 2003
- 36
- 2
:huh
Well, I have always said, "when the bus stops, I'll get off. I plan on sticking it out as long as I can. I have a great background in the food industry, just hoping I don't have to go there.
Have a great week everyone!
Well, I have always said, "when the bus stops, I'll get off. I plan on sticking it out as long as I can. I have a great background in the food industry, just hoping I don't have to go there.
Have a great week everyone!
RedOne
Senior
Let's see. My plan "B". First of all, I have enjoyed my job, and I think I do it well. I am at the age that I could/can retire, so if the bus comes to the stop that I think I should get off...I'll just get off. I choose to ride the bus until that time comes....but I aint gonna work 40 hrs a week for about the same amount that I would get retired. My vote to more givebacks is NO. I just bought a new boat (yes, its paid for), guess I will do some inside and outside fishing. (Plan "C") I have had several of our customers to tell me that "the day you think about retiring...give me a call, I've got a job for you if you want one" (don't know if they are serious or not...when I get tired of doing nothing, I may call them to get the best offer! ) Oh, and just so you will know, I'm a lowly redneck F/S agent... and I still have a PAI license tag on my 2 vehicles (I'm still proud!) 
) Oh, and just so you will know, I'm a lowly redneck F/S agent... and I still have a PAI license tag on my 2 vehicles (I'm still proud!) nycbusdriver
Veteran
Rather arrogant of you. But if you insist on knowing personal plans that do not concern you, here goes.firstamendment said:
Plan B for me, and likely many others, is a process already in motion. First, reduce debt and get rid of "toys" that get little use anyway.
For pilots, plan B also necessitates pulling out all those old logbooks/flight records and putting together a new resume and curriculum vitae. Scan digital copies of all licenses, medical, passport, birth certificate, etc. Most companies start the hiring process through the internet via a website or email. They almost always want to see copies.
For those interested, research other field of endeavor than flying. This is a very individual thing. Some pilots have returned to training for information systems work (network engineer, etc.), some start their own businesses (many have already,) some go back to school part-time for whatever "trips their trigger." Personally, I am in the process of getting my "life experience" certified toward teaching credits so that I can instruct in public schools; a fall back option to keep food on the table and a decent benefits package.
That's in addition to exploring the myriad pilot jobs available world-wide. There are literally hundreds of positons listed on at least a half-dozen aviation employment websites. Not all of them are great jobs, to be sure. But many would allow for a comfortable life. I recently turned down an interview for an airline in the Middle East which, if USAirways was already gone, would have brought my compensation to about 80% of what I am now earning, and probably 90+% after our inevitable next round of concessions. Why did I turn down the interview? Bad timing, mostly.
I am just one pilot out of the 3,000 of us remaining at USAirways. About 2,975 of those pilots just aren't paying a bit of attention to anything you have to say, FirstAmendment. Most of the other 25 of us who post here just don't have the time or inclination to respond to your drivel. We are too busy with Plan B.
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
- 1,882
- 57
Frankly it doesn't belong in this thread but hey what's new? It does seem you brought up your purchase in here Pineybob so you left it up for ridicule and discussion. If you didn't want to talk about it why bring it up?PineyBob said:
But since we putting our 2 cents in here...Do you always speed? Do you have any respect for the law and safety of others? Do you drink and drive?
Are you trying to impress everyone with your buying power? Your choice and love of cars? A massage of your ego? What exactly is it you trying to say?
libertybell
Senior
- Jan 5, 2003
- 320
- 9
chef school for training then off to resorts for work.
PSA1979
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 360
- 6
What is next? Well, for a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant who is married to a 50+year old uneducated flight attendant, there is not much hope of a job that even pays at half of what this one once did, or even does now.
Pay off bills? Okay, send me some extra money and I will. It cost over $20,000 a year to put a kid through college. That is in a state school and he has a loan for the tuition. But someone has to pay for living expenses, an automoble, insurance, etc. (oh and he only drives the auto to go to work to pay off the tuition loan, he rides his bike to school even in the rain)
For all those of you that have paid off everything and are ready to burn this place down, good for you that you actually had extra money and are now prepared. For those of us that are striving to make ends meet, (Between us we took a $25,000 dollar a year cut, wow we just paid for a junior reserve to sit around and not work) going to school to learn something new is expensive. We don't have any toys to sell, unless you count our cars, but then how would we get to a new job?
Does anyone know what unemployement pays? What do I do when that runs out? Wait until I can collect my retirement? What retirement, I heard they are going to take that too? Social Security? When I'm 67, if that isn't bankrupt.
Nope, there aren't too many jobs out there that we are qualified for. There aren't too many jobs out there period. I have been looking, I have been preparing as best as I can. But, I am willing to try to help this airline get back on course, and I am over playing the blame game. Look around you, Jet Blue is only 5 or 6 years old. They don't have to go to employees for cuts, their employees make minimum wage. They have no senior people. Even Southwest is only 30 years old, so how many topped out flight attendants can they possibly have?
The world of airline business is changing, the business customer isn't willing to foot the bill anymore. Things have to change, we either change with it or give it up to let someone else take up where we left off. And they are waiting in the wings licking their lips waiting for us to self destruct. Which is exactly what we are doing!
No Virginia, their is no Santa Claus!!!!!!!
Pay off bills? Okay, send me some extra money and I will. It cost over $20,000 a year to put a kid through college. That is in a state school and he has a loan for the tuition. But someone has to pay for living expenses, an automoble, insurance, etc. (oh and he only drives the auto to go to work to pay off the tuition loan, he rides his bike to school even in the rain)
For all those of you that have paid off everything and are ready to burn this place down, good for you that you actually had extra money and are now prepared. For those of us that are striving to make ends meet, (Between us we took a $25,000 dollar a year cut, wow we just paid for a junior reserve to sit around and not work) going to school to learn something new is expensive. We don't have any toys to sell, unless you count our cars, but then how would we get to a new job?
Does anyone know what unemployement pays? What do I do when that runs out? Wait until I can collect my retirement? What retirement, I heard they are going to take that too? Social Security? When I'm 67, if that isn't bankrupt.
Nope, there aren't too many jobs out there that we are qualified for. There aren't too many jobs out there period. I have been looking, I have been preparing as best as I can. But, I am willing to try to help this airline get back on course, and I am over playing the blame game. Look around you, Jet Blue is only 5 or 6 years old. They don't have to go to employees for cuts, their employees make minimum wage. They have no senior people. Even Southwest is only 30 years old, so how many topped out flight attendants can they possibly have?
The world of airline business is changing, the business customer isn't willing to foot the bill anymore. Things have to change, we either change with it or give it up to let someone else take up where we left off. And they are waiting in the wings licking their lips waiting for us to self destruct. Which is exactly what we are doing!
No Virginia, their is no Santa Claus!!!!!!!
RedOne
Senior
Understand your situation. Understand your concerns. Been there, done that. Also understand that for some labor groups, the company wants them to work for min. wage, and that is what they are trying to get. Considering the amount of stress in this job (account for every minute...big brother looking over your shoulder every min of every day...some labor groups, if they are short of help have to do the best they can [crews don't experiece this do you?], etc).... if I'm gonna work for min wage, it's gonna be at a place with much less of the above than where I'm at.PSA1979 said:
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
- 1,882
- 57
They are plenty of those self important types in here and on both sides of fence. Not that I am a devote advocate of political correctness I don't see whats wrong with people that practice it. Why would you loathe it?PineyBob said:
What is wrong with avoidance of expressions or actions that can be perceived to exclude or marginalize or insult people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against? More importantly political correctness is more about language use and awareness than dictating what you drive.
Besides just drinking while driving I also meant drinking before driving.
You do not know how I drive so I don't see how you made that statement. But we got a glimse of how you might drive from your post. Speeding tickets are by all means revenue generators but speeding is dangerous and kills too.
We DO see you love CARS very much and especially that you ALWAYS loved 2 seat sports cars. I am glad we know that now and also about your savvy buying skills. Lets not forget your gas mileage too.
Good luck with finding flight attendant just hope you not married , hey j/k
Believe this or not, after reading your post I feel for you.PSA1979 said:
Here is the problem employees like yourself are facing. You personally are willing to take further cuts because that is your best personal option, and who can blame you for doing what’s best for your and your family’s welfare? No one can or should.
This airline finds itself in such dire straights that I, as well as many other employees, do not believe that another round of concessions will matter, even the experts are saying this.
Many of the employees who will vote to accept addition concessions will surely vote themselves out of a job.
Many employees are simply filled with rage and will vote against anything this management team wants, and this is truly understandable given this management’s history.
Many employees feel that additional concessions will not solve the problem but only prolong the agony, and not wanting to live like this any longer no matter what lies ahead, will vote to end their present pain of living on the edge that requires taking medicine to think straight and eat and sleep properly.
Many employees have lived like there is no tomorrow and are in terrible debt and have a huge mortgage and SUV payments knowing that bankruptcy awaits them if their employment at U comes to an end.
Many employees are ready for a change knowing the airline industry will never in their lifetime be a place where wages are above average and overtime is endless and no college education is required, a real dream land. So they look elsewhere or go back to school.
Employees without high seniority realize there is no future left for them, realizing a yes vote only lets the old timer, who had life easy his entire career, continue until the end while he the junior employee must now start over with all the pain and heartaches it requires. These employees, which are many, are on the fence and the ones I talked to are leaning toward the let it die mentality of voting no.
I won’t get too personal like some of you posters are doing but will say this: My life has not been an easy life, like gazillions of others, of course. This fact either makes you strong or weak. I came to this company later in life and know what life is without that all important sheep skin. I know what hard work coupled with low wages is all about. Working at U enabled me become completely debt free and that was including putting a kid all the way through graduate school and building a new home. I don’t need to make the wages I enjoy now, although I would love to continue the status quo being I am sane. The only way this management would get a yes vote from this employee would be to guarantee my severance and collect an early retirement, and leaving that retirement alone unlike the pilots faced. Unless and until these things happen, I will maintain my vote no stance, why? Because I simply HAVE to knowing I followed through with my beliefs which I have always done throughout my life.
To all the ones scared to death of the unknown. Remember we do live in the USA where there is a net to catch people who are misfortunate. If you really want that education and don’t have the money, there are absolutely ways and means to achieve your dreams. All you have to do is ask for that helping hand and the more you are willing the more that helping hand is able to help you make your dreams a reality.
The dream world of working at U and making a nice wage under little pressure with unlimited overtime has come to and end, and now the very end of U may be near too, but that is ALL it is, the end of U and NOT your very life! So put it into perspective and make a rational decision based upon your personal needs and circumstances that we, all of the U employees, find ourselves in.
