What is next after failed ratification vote?

[Duke787]

As I understand it, and corect me if I'm wrong. In the 1989 contract it was voted down and a worse contract was voted in, but then again we have a different generation of mechanic now who would not stand for that kind of nonsense.

I disagree with Bob about the SWA contract, I think it would be a great contract regardless of your sick bank (the cash you bring home would more then make up for that) you have to start somewhere. AA wouldn't have the pension holding them back and not holding over our head. The only down fall would be the amount of mechs AA would let go, but when they got recalled they would come back to great contract.

Getting back to the suject of the thread, as I understand it the TWU is going to put out a survey, then get those results go to the mediator, then the mediator decides for more negotiations or a release.

A side note, attacking eoleson because his point of view different then yours is narrow minded, we need to look at a subject from all points of view otherwise we will all make the same mistakes.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

You do realize WN outsources their overhaul and lots of other things?

 

[KUKUY]

You do realize WN outsources their overhaul and lots of other things?

That is why the NW contract would be so goooood for the remaining 200 aircraft and 3 facilities mechanics left on the clock. Yeah that's the ticket. I'll bet those guys would get a very sweet deal.

 

[Frank Szabo]

"we will not allow the company to put our Crew Chiefs on permanent probation" ...

________________________

Here's where we are going to differ.

My shop has a crew chief who was removed from a previous crew chief position for incompetence. This man is not qualified to attempt walking and breathing at the same time yet he's still there after being allowed to bid on another C/C job and was awarded the position for no reason other than his seniority date. This is WRONG!!! Most of us would rather have an individual in this position who was certified brain dead.

The other crew chief, who is much more qualified and able the handle the position, is looking for a new home because the so-called "management" won't do a thing about the idiot they allowed to pass probation.

A review system for, not just crew chiefs but all employees, would go a long way toward removing the dead weight in the system kept on payroll for no reason than providing the TWU with dues income.

We have all sat down on the job for a night or two - that's not what I'm talking about. It's those who can't be found for weeks on end that are the problem.

Unfortunately, the majority of the present middle management, those that would be administering such a policy, is not up to the task as the majority is far more incompetent than the worst worker on the floor and would tend to praise those who they are buds with (similar levels of incompetence) rather than giving honest and objective assessments of an individual - after all, the last person an incompetent wants his boss to notice is someone smarter than he or she.

There, you have the recipe that is causing the continuing and rapid downfall of American (USA) business - the buddy system.

... and our "management" has the 'nads to complain about our workrules - perhaps if those termed management would do their own jobs for a change ...

Nah - never happen.

 

[Duke787]

"we will not allow the company to put our Crew Chiefs on permanent probation" ...

________________________

Here's where we are going to differ.

My shop has a crew chief who was removed from a previous crew chief position for incompetence. This man is not qualified to attempt walking and breathing at the same time yet he's still there and the other crew chief, who is much more qualified and able for the position, is looking for a new home because the so-called "management" won't do a thing about the idiot.

A review system for, not just crew chiefs but all employees, would go a long way toward removing the dead weight in the system kept in place to provide the TWU with dues income. Unfortunately, the majority of the present middle management, those that would be administering this policy, is not up to the task as the majority is far more incompetent than the worst worker on the floor and would tend to praise those who they are buds with (similar levels of incompetence) rather than giving honest and objective assessments of an individual - after all, the last person an incompetent wants his boss to notice is someone smarter.

There, you have the recipe that is causing and continuing the rapid downfall of American (USA) business - the buddy system.

I don't know where you work Frank, but that is exactly the way it is at ORD. I would say 25% of the C/C's are useless, but the management doesn't do a thing about them.

I would add that the supivisor's that tried to hold mechs and C/C's accountable were all let go.

 

[Duke787]

You do realize WN outsources their overhaul and lots of other things?

Thank God, someone else realizes that the SWA contract isn't the end all be all contract. The TWU has done some good by us, remember we still have over 9300 mechs on the PAY ROLL, we still do our own OH. Yes there has been draw backs (OSM's the 2003 MOAC) but WE as a whole voted those contracts in. Hopefully with AMP pressuring the TWU and AA, they will come up with a good TA we can all be happy with.

Before we have to read all the things we already know we don't like about the present contract, remember WE voted it in. Hopefully the TWU will come back with a good contract or maybe AMP will.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Alot of times when there is a union drive during negotiations, the company stalls and waits till its over and you suffer even more.

 

[Bandit6794]

There is no need to demonize somone because they disagree. Go stand in the middle of Arlington National Cemetary and view the huge sacrifice made so that we can have differing views and opinions. I actually have found E to be a kind and a caring person, and iwsh him much success in his life and current job. To wish failure upon another usually leads to misery for one's self.

Dont wave the flag at me....you have no right..And if you are in charge of this AMP card drive: I regret signing

 

[Bob Owens]

"we will not allow the company to put our Crew Chiefs on permanent probation" ...

________________________

Here's where we are going to differ.

My shop has a crew chief who was removed from a previous crew chief position for incompetence. This man is not qualified to attempt walking and breathing at the same time yet he's still there after being allowed to bid on another C/C job and was awarded the position for no reason other than his seniority date. This is WRONG!!! Most of us would rather have an individual in this position who was certified brain dead.

The other crew chief, who is much more qualified and able the handle the position, is looking for a new home because the so-called "management" won't do a thing about the idiot they allowed to pass probation.

A review system for, not just crew chiefs but all employees, would go a long way toward removing the dead weight in the system kept on payroll for no reason than providing the TWU with dues income.

We have all sat down on the job for a night or two - that's not what I'm talking about. It's those who can't be found for weeks on end that are the problem.

Unfortunately, the majority of the present middle management, those that would be administering such a policy, is not up to the task as the majority is far more incompetent than the worst worker on the floor and would tend to praise those who they are buds with (similar levels of incompetence) rather than giving honest and objective assessments of an individual - after all, the last person an incompetent wants his boss to notice is someone smarter than he or she.

There, you have the recipe that is causing the continuing and rapid downfall of American (USA) business - the buddy system.

... and our "management" has the 'nads to complain about our workrules - perhaps if those termed management would do their own jobs for a change ...

Nah - never happen.

What happened to his six month probation? The company has the opportunity to screen these guys out for cause, they just choose not to do it. We should not change our whole proceedure and cede our contractual rights to fix their problem, by their problem I mean the fact that they dont apply the six month probation. If they cany=t apply that properly what makes you think they would apply the proposed one any better?

 

[Frank Szabo]

What happened to his six month probation? The company has the opportunity to screen these guys out for cause, they just choose not to do it. We should not change our whole proceedure and cede our contractual rights to fix their problem, by their problem I mean the fact that they dont apply the six month probation. If they cany=t apply that properly what makes you think they would apply the proposed one any better?

My solution was re: theory - in reality, the company would use their new found leverage to remove the good ones and replace with their own brand of corporate garbage with the assistance of the TWU - we know that.

This guy I was talking about - I'm quite sure the company is using a government-type of solution - allow a problem to develop to a point of no return only to offer a fix to their liking.

 

[toroshark]

Dont wave the flag at me....you have no right..And if you are in charge of this AMP card drive: I regret signing

He will be waving the bible next.It appears to be his modus operandi.

 

[Birdman]

What happened to his six month probation? The company has the opportunity to screen these guys out for cause, they just choose not to do it. We should not change our whole proceedure and cede our contractual rights to fix their problem, by their problem I mean the fact that they dont apply the six month probation. If they cany=t apply that properly what makes you think they would apply the proposed one any better?

I agree mAAnagement most often does not follow through with the proper documentation on anybody, including mechanics, and I agree 6 months is plenty of time to evaluate cc's. Having experienced the same scenario Frank discribed, our greatest frustration came from the unions response. It suddenly became the crews fault that the cc was so blatantly incompetent and we we're told to suck it up and work with the guy. So Bob, if the old system is not working to resolve our frustration, I certainly welcome any new ideas.

 

[TWU informer]

Dont wave the flag at me....you have no right..And if you are in charge of this AMP card drive: I regret signing

He will be waving the bible next.It appears to be his modus operandi.

Maybe you two are correct. Nobody should be allowed an opinion other than yours, and anyone that does disagree must surely be the problem in our lives, our profession, our country, ect.

Go ahead and degrade someone for having an opposing view. That will surely make our society better, our jobs better, and no doubt we will all personally feel better about ourselves. My apologies for interupting your exposure of character. Carry on.

I could indeed quote a bible verse for you now, but I wont waste anymore time on either of you.

 

[1AA]

As I understand it, and corect me if I'm wrong. In the 1989 contract it was voted down and a worse contract was voted in, but then again we have a different generation of mechanic now who would not stand for that kind of nonsense.

The 1989 contracts. The first one was rejected under the recommendation of the TWU. The second passed under the recommendation of the TWU. The second contract was worse for the AMT but not fleet service. At that time we were all together. The AMT was outnumbered. When AA had replacement workers in the local hotel rooms ready to take over the fleet service jobs the union got scared and endorsed the second contract and it passed. We on the other hand got screwed AGAIN. That was another missed opportunity to seek better representation. But who knew back then.

 

[787nightmare]

The 1989 contracts. The first one was rejected under the recommendation of the TWU. The second passed under the recommendation of the TWU. The second contract was worse for the AMT but not fleet service. At that time we were all together. The AMT was outnumbered. When AA had replacement workers in the local hotel rooms ready to take over the fleet service jobs the union got scared and endorsed the second contract and it passed. We on the other hand got screwed AGAIN. That was another missed opportunity to seek better representation. But who knew back then.

I have always been of the mind that AMTs don't need anyone else to stand with them. What I mean by that is...yes, there are strength in numbers, but the numbers these AFL-CIO "catch all" unions refer to are the very ones that have tearing the wages down for the AMT for decades. As I've worked through the years in this business, it has amazed me the apathy, passive attitude of AMTs when it comes to making a change in representation for themselves. We mechanics will NEVER get a fair and equitable deal until we sever from the other groups that are like "sea lamprys"(sp?)on the AMTs. Why does it strike such terror in the hearts of AMTs to just fricken sign a card and make a change for the good of your craft man!? and of course, after a contract is finally ratified all the talk and movement for representation change will come to halt-watch. Just amazing to me...
Btw, I'm unsure of the wisdom to make a change right smack in the heat of negotiations with AA. Cetainly after it's all done I'd be all about gettting different representation in AA...FO SHO! I also wonder if maybe a 2 yr deal-no more than 3 be done!