We have a tentative agreement

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
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On 11/5/2002 12:37:02 AM Rhino wrote:

Shuttle, MetroJet, Delta Express,

None of these ever were or ever will be anything more than loss leaders in an attempt to retain market share against low-fare carriers. They won't work because they provide the SWA level of service at SWA prices. SWA makes money at those prices, the OALs don't.

Why not provide a clearly superior product and seek better yields? B6 should be the model/target, not WN. Do what you do best.
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[/blockquote]

Shuttle was HIGHLY successful. It quit being successful on it's on ONLY after it was morphed into a pure hub bank feeder. UAL's shuttle TOOK market share from SWA while making a profit. Is that failure? Metro and Dal exp failed due to the type jet (737-200), and saying Dal Exp failed may also be premature. It will likely be revamped with 757s with CASM lower than SWA or JetBlue. You can judge it's success when Parker asks you for another 5 year pay freeze. Unfortunately, this time, there won't be other markets to expand in.

 

[UAL777flyer]

300guy,

Good question. In short, we don't have a clue. We're rarely told anything about our part of the contribution. We're fortunate to have one of the SRT reps working in my department. We ask her every week at our staff meeting what is happening with the SRT negotiations for the management/salaried contribution. She hasn't been able to give us any specifics because we're told that negotiations are ongoing. Interestingly enough, there was an article in yesterday's Chicago Tribune mentioning what the management/salaried contribution would be. However, the SRT quickly put out an email telling us that nothing had been finalized. Smells kind of fishy to me. Personally, I'm preparing for the worst. In other words, a double digit paycut as well as having to pay about 20% of my medical premium. However, to answer your question, we've been told nothing other than idle speculation.

Rhino,

There is strong reason to believe that the Shuttle product they are envisioning will not be a replication of the previous Shuttle. It will be designed and operated differently and put forth a solid product. I disagree that the airline within an airline concept at the majors can't work. It can. Will it be a profit machine? Certainly not. But if designed and operated properly, with costs kept at a competitive level and held in check, it has the potential for success. The key is being able to offer a high quality product at a competitively reasonable fare structure. So I think this Shuttle product, if/when it is rolled out, will probably include a very basic fare structure that doesn't include the myriad of restrictions and stipulations that the regular fare structure does. None of the if-Mars-aligns-with-Jupiter-on-the-second-Sunday-in-January-and-you-want-to-change-to-an-earlier-flight restrictions that are a joke. The key is getting everyone onboard with the operation to design something that will work. Most are naysayers because up until now, it's been nearly impossible to get everyone onboard to do that at any carrier. Well, I think reality has hit home and you can expect significant changes to our product and the way we do business. It's inevitable.

 

[Taipan]

Flyer what did it say about your proposed contribution ? Also I saw around the web that AA wants 4 billion in cost cuts now , looks like that one domino is falling and it will reverberate to DFW,ATL for sure then maybe even to MSP,IAH ? Does anyone know if the NOV 17 loan has officially been delayed a month ? or better yet given the IAM treatment 8 payments over 2 years

 

[UAL777flyer]

Taipan,

I believe the Trib article quoted management taking a 10% paycut. But it was very vague on specifics. So I don't know if all will take the same cut or it will be a sliding scale based on your salary. I tend to think that there will be a minimum % cut for all management/salaried, and then it will progress upwards on a sliding scale depending on your total salary But that's just my guess.

As for the other carriers, reality is starting to rain down on them. At least as far as AA goes. It was absolutely foolish for Carty to swear they wouldn't seek employee pay/benefit cuts to turn things around. They compete head to head against us in more markets than any other two airlines. Did he honestly think they'd be able to effectively compete with a restructured UA? I think Holly hit the nail on the head when she said in this week's PBB that a bit of arrogance may have entered into the equation. Instead of recognizing the reality and proactively seeking cuts to turn things around, AA has sat on the sidelines a bit too long. Now they know they have no choice. It's about to get ugly in Dallas. We may yet see a whole new chapter in labor relations written between AA Mgmt and the APA. Hopefully, as they're dragging things out with their cost cutting issues, we'll put ours into place and start to reap the rewards at their expense.

 

[Taipan]

Looks like we got the special loan extension better known as the IAM plan from the germans

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
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On 11/5/2002 6:44:07 PM Taipan wrote:

Looks like we got the special loan extension better known as the IAM plan from the germans
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[/blockquote]

Yup stocks up to 4.75 in afterhours trading.

 

[mastermechanic]

[blockquote]
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On 11/5/2002 143 PM UAL777flyer wrote:

Taipan,

I believe the Trib article quoted management taking a 10% paycut. But it was very vague on specifics. So I don't know if all will take the same cut or it will be a sliding scale based on your salary. I tend to think that there will be a minimum % cut for all management/salaried, and then it will progress upwards on a sliding scale depending on your total salary But that's just my guess.

As for the other carriers, reality is starting to rain down on them. At least as far as AA goes. It was absolutely foolish for Carty to swear they wouldn't seek employee pay/benefit cuts to turn things around. They compete head to head against us in more markets than any other two airlines. Did he honestly think they'd be able to effectively compete with a restructured UA? I think Holly hit the nail on the head when she said in this week's PBB that a bit of arrogance may have entered into the equation. Instead of recognizing the reality and proactively seeking cuts to turn things around, AA has sat on the sidelines a bit too long. Now they know they have no choice. It's about to get ugly in Dallas. We may yet see a whole new chapter in labor relations written between AA Mgmt and the APA. Hopefully, as they're dragging things out with their cost cutting issues, we'll put ours into place and start to reap the rewards at their expense.
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[/blockquote]
No looks like he's thinking the way UAL should be thinking...cutting management by 22%, announced today on the news.

 

[UAL777flyer]

mastermechanic,

It's always nice to hide behind the security of seniority under union representation, huh? If your career at UA was judged upon job performance and attitude, I'm wondering if you'd have already been furloughed and working at Jiffy Lube!

Once again, your clearly biased opinion against everyone outside your job category shines through. All you ever do is whine and complain about how everyone on God's green earth has conspired to rob you of your just rewards. And you can't even put together an intelligent, mature response to rebut someone's opinion. All you know is hostility, insults and threats which clearly demonstrates your intellectual shortcomings. Just once I'd love to see you offer up some well thought-out ideas to fix UA other than your standard fire everyone in management mantra. Are you even capable of that?

 

[mastermechanic]

Hit a nerve my friend...

 

[Segue]

Class structure - thats funny - maybe a few quotes out of Das Kapital would be appropriate.

 

[magsau]

mastermechanic,

It really is too bad that no one told you how much working on airplanes paid when you were looking for a job. If someone had sat you down and explained that sitting upstairs paid better then I am sure you would not have committed yourself to toiling away as a mechanic.

It would appear that cross carrying is really your style. That old woe is me. I have been shortchanged in life and it is everyone elses fault. Care to share with us how much time you have spent doing committee work for the IAM. Trying to make YOUR union better and stronger. Or do you just enjoy sharp shooting from the sidelines.

Your quips are about as original as those experts I hear on the sports talk call in shows. Fire the coach, get a new quarterback, When are we going to beat Florida? As to you I am going to inovoke the wonderful ability to NOT read your post as there is never anything of news or airline interest.

So long mastermechanic. Enjoy your misery, but do not expect everyone else to jump in the pool with you. Some of else like UAL and our jobs. It is not limited to pilots. UAL777 is a true airline person along with alot of the people on this board that have enjoyed the intracies of this industry. We are people that happened upon this website, just to B^&% about our perceived troubles.

 

[mastermechanic]

Member

Total Posts: 30
Last Post: 11/6/2002
Member Since: 8/20/2002
Member ID #: 184


mastermechanic,

It really is too bad that no one told you how much working on airplanes paid when you were looking for a job. If someone had sat you down and explained that sitting upstairs paid better then I am sure you would not have committed yourself to toiling away as a mechanic.


This explains it all....and to all our pilots out there, thanks guys...I never considered being a mechanic as a lower life form. I apologize for forgetting my place.

 

[mancityfan]

[blockquote]
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From Mastermechanic

This explains it all....and to all our pilots out there, thanks guys...I never considered being a mechanic as a lower life form. I apologize for forgetting my place.
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[/blockquote]

MM,

It is too bad the basics are slipping by you unnoticed, but the point being made is that EVERYONE in aviation complains about their lot in life when compared to pilots. However, EVERYONE with any knowledge of aviation KNEW BEFORE THEY GOT INTO IT that pilots make more than mechanics, who make more than Flight Attendants, who make more than....and so it goes. It has NOTHING to do with being a lower form of life, so don't try and turn it into woe is me for being a lower form of life.

This is not rocket science, but every time concessions or contracts roll around, everyone starts complaining about the pilots pay. We will see if the mechanics OR the AFA OR Mgmt takes anywhere CLOSE to 18% (Really 20% with B Fund). But you watch, if the pilots get one percentage more BACK in 2008, there will be the same shrill cry of those pilots get ALL the money!

If you want to be a pilot because they get paid more than mechanics, GO FOR IT! Guess what, I was not a pilot all my life, I used to be a professional athlete, then a financial analyst, and THEN I took 6 years out of my life to go an become a pilot, build time, get ratings, and try and get a job. It worked, thank goodness, because Lord knows there are PLENTY of pilots who were not as lucky as me to make it all the way to UAL and who are trying to survive on $30K. Maybe it was those odds you did not like? Do you think EVERY pilot makes it to age 60 as a 747-400 Captain making what you appear to believe is $350K??(We both know this is not true under C2K, and will certainly not be true under C2002!!

You made your own choice, of your own free will, to become a Mechanic and then seem to spend so much time complaining about your lot in life when compared to pilots that it begs a few questions...What were you thinking when you took your A&P? Did you think it would mean you would make what a 747 Captain makes in his last few years? Get real, get off this dead horse and go and vote to save the airline and your own job, or simply leave OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL (although that has let you down in the past, it appears!)

mancityfan

 

[UAL777flyer]

Maybe if mastermechanic was able to put aside his red-lining hostility meter for a moment, he'd actually have the ability to construct an intelligent, thought-provoking rebuttal of someone's opinion that didn't contain the usual supply of insults and threats that is akin to petty arguing on a grade school playground.

As for hitting a nerve, you certainly did not. You're the one who continually shows your intellectual shortcomings by having to resort to childish threats of bodily harm. I mean do you actually expect us to be quaking in our boots?

I stand by my opinion that based on the attitude you continually display in your posts, you're nothing but a malcontent who wastes his time blaming everyone else for his problems instead of trying to proactively find positive solutions to those problems. And we're all supposed to believe you're such a hard-working dedicated UA employee???

 

[Taipan]

Iam was in town today an insinuated a few things
1.Dont count on an agreement until AFA comes out with theres
2.The were very confident one would happen
3.Retro is not on the table
4.Looks like a straight W2 change ala ALPA no benefit cuts
5.Probably same kind of deal that ALPA got 2 yrs of paycuts no raises, then 4 equal installments bringing back current pay at the end of ERP.
6.Possible work rule changes ?
I stress the word insinuation because this was me reading between the lines