We have a tentative agreement

[spacewaitress]

I don't know any of the specifics, but I sure hope IAM gets their act together. There does seem to be an oddly destructive pathology at work there. Oh well, I just hope that its simply negotiating antics and will try to reserve judgement until the fat lady sings.

I really believe like 777 says that this is only the beginning. But I believe the work that needs to be done goes beyond economics...once we take our collective hits to the pocketbooks, we really need to find ways to come together as a community, a family, all working for common goals. I hope that is achievable here...call me a dreamer.

 

[UAL777flyer]

spacewaitress,

Rest assured, you're going to see it. All the focus is on stabilizing our financial picture right now and avoiding bankruptcy, as it should be. But once that pressure simmers down a bit in the not too distant future, you'll be seeing more change in other areas, such as the culture and working environments. Anyone who doubts it is in for a big surprise.

 

[kcabpilot]

gagged

 

[kcabpilot]

moderated

 

[kcabpilot]

disposed

 

[kcabpilot]

quarantined

 

[767jetz]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/10/2002 6:38:31 PM Falco wrote:

I see the FA's have agreed to $412 million of savings. Let's see pilots $2.2 billion, F/A's $412 Million, that leaves about $2.9 billion. Assuming management gives about 10% of the total, that leaves about $2.3 billion for the IAM. The math isn't adding up. I think the ATSB will soon be chipping in with a resounding NO.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Actually, YOUR math isn't adding up. I just came from an ALPA meeting. First off all, the IAM portion is divided into Mechanics and non-mechanics. Secondly, the Management and Salary positions make up somewhere around 20% of the total amount agreed to by the coalition. I'm sorry I don't have the actual graph or #'s from the meeting, but if I get them, I will post them. Rest assured that the pilots are absorbing the largest amount of money in this ERP. The % the mechanics contribute will be less than the pilots, and the $ amount will be significantly less. The pilots will be contributing around $400Million PER YEAR as opposed to the mechanics in the low $300Million range. Also keep in mind we have less pilots than mechanics, so we (pilots) have a larger # divided by less employees.

As for the ATSB, there is a reason the final # turned out to be $5.8Billion over 5&1/2 years. Those #'s didn't just come out of thin air. I would expect a conditional approval by the ATSB in 10 days or so. (Conditional on ratification of the ERP by all parties, since the time it takes the various unions to submit and ratify varies greatly. I think the AFA takes the longest. ALPA's will be done by the 18th.)

 

[UAL777flyer]

kcabpilot,

Wow! Obviously, your message is of such importance that you felt the need to post it 4 times. LOL.

Look, I have no axe to grind with you. I'll admit that I enjoy the verbal sparring at times, but I've got nothing against you or anyone else personally. I'm just sick and tired of the lousy, finger-pointing attitudes and selfishness that are destroying this airline. It's time we all proactively find solutions to our problems instead of wasting our time blaming everyone else.

As for bubbling over with giddy pride and self esteem, you misunderstand me. Based on the nature of my job, I see the numbers each and every day for this airline and the flights it operates. So I'm tuned in more than others to the financial performance of our airline. I try to take a pragmatic, yet optimistic approach to our situation. While I'm cautiously optimistic, I'm also confident that Glenn Tilton is the leader we need to fix this company. What about you? Can you do anything else besides complain? I'd rather hear about the job you do fixing aircraft and the problems that you're presented with. I honestly would. I find that a heck of a lot more interesting and thought-provoking than the usual, unintelligent, ignorant management bashing that seems to be sport among the uninformed. I truly sympathize with your work environment and conditions if they are indeed as bad as you say they are? What have you done to change it? Have you tried talking to anyone about it? Go all the way to the top if you have to. Email Tilton and clearly explain the situation. It can't hurt. But doing nothing but complaining about the situation isn't going to fix a thing. I think even you can figure that one out.

You see, I'm interested in some of the points you raised about lack of parts and things of that sort. Those are clearly identified problems that can be solved with the right ideas from those that do the job each day--you and your fellow mechanics. I remember robbing parts all too well when I worked in SOC at TWA. We even had to rob some parts of the simulators. Talk about an endless shell game.

As for having a cush job, once again I tell you that you don't have the first clue about what my job is and what it entails. If you honestly think that building this airline's flight schedule is a cush job, than I sincerely suggest you drop by and spend some time and educate yourself about such an ignorantly naive point of view. As for losing it, the only control I have over my job security is by doing the best job I can do each and every day because the bottom line is that job performance dictates whether I keep it. But that is the way I like it. I have no qualms with it whatsoever.

As for feeling so important, I honestly feel I'm no more important than the other 83,999 employees at this airline. It takes ALL of us to make this airline operate. Even though my job and department perform a critically vital role for the airline, I don't place any higher value on it than someone else's. We all contribute to the success or failure of this airline. I think it's my positive attitude that ruffles your feathers. Your axe to grind is clear. You justify your continually bad attitude because you've been treated so poorly for so long. Well, do you honestly think you're the only group to have ever gotten screwed at this company? Wake up and smell the JP-5! You seem so resigned to the fact that nothing will ever change and you will continue to be dumped on. So I guess that makes it ok to continue with a negative attitude that I'm sure carries over to your work performance at times. At least during those breakroom card games!! Yeah, that's the ticket. That'll turn this ship around.

What is YOUR answer to positive change, other than the typical fire all management because they do nothing all day anyway mantra that is better suited for debate in a grade school cafeteria? Are you active in your union? Are you trying to push positive change? What does your union leadership think of your supervisors and managers? You're paying dues to them, aren't you? Or are they to blame, too? Who isn't to blame in your book? That's probably a much shorter answer.

 

[spacewaitress]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/12/2002 3:40:18 PM 767jetz wrote:
(Conditional on ratification of the ERP by all parties, since the time it takes the various unions to submit and ratify varies greatly. I think the AFA takes the longest. ALPA's will be done by the 18th.)
----------------
[/blockquote]

Here's the timeline on our ratification vote. To be done electronically (as ALPA's is done I believe).

Voting for the AFA Recovery Plan Tentative Agreement will open at 0800 EST on November 15, 2002 and close at 1200 EST on November 30, 2002. The vote count will take place on November 30, 2002 after the close of balloting.

 

[UAL777flyer]

spacewaitress,

I have a question for you. Isn't the normal AFA ratification process contractually mandated to be 30 days? Did the AFA agree to speed up the ratification process due to UA's financial time crunch? Thanks.

 

[spacewaitress]

AFA's CBL reads:

All mail ballots shall be out not less than twenty-eight (28) calendar days from the date the ballots are mailed until the count date except as otherwise specified.

I'm sure the exceptions are buried somewhere in the document.

 

[spacewaitress]

On 11/13/2002 10:13:50 AM UAL777flyer wrote:

spacewaitress,

I have a question for you. Isn't the normal AFA ratification process contractually mandated to be 30 days? Did the AFA agree to speed up the ratification process due to UA's financial time crunch? Thanks.
----------------
[/blockquote]
From AFA's Constitution:
All mail ballots shall be out not less than twenty-eight (28) calendar days from the date the ballots are mailed until the count date except as otherwise specified.

I can't find anything regarding electronic balloting, but this is from November 2001. The CBL may have been changed at the October meeting of the AFA BOD (I think they meet every year in October, could be every 2).

Anyway I'm sure the sections that allow these procedures are buried there somewhere...but the above is the normal process.

 

[kcabpilot]

extricated

 

[UAL777flyer]

kcabpilot,

Once again I see you've allowed your anger and hostility towards all things management to cloud your brain cells. 25% of all management, huh? I'm glad you're just a mechanic and not in a position to dictate how this company is run. Actually, we're being told that about 15% of WHQ is going to get cut, so maybe you'll eventually get your wish. But somehow, I think that they could cut 99% of WHQ and you'd still find something to whine about and someone to blame for your lot in life.

Now that I seem to have gotten your panties into full wedgie mode with my lengthy posts, I guess I'll have to keep up the good work. Funny how you've yet to respond to my invitation to stop by WHQ and see what we do. Funny how you've also avoided the question of whether or not you've EVER spent any time in WHQ. But that's not surprising. Doing so would force you to confront your own ignorance and actually admit that you were wrong. How refreshing.

I could really care less that you're not buying it in reference to my explanation about my job, etc. I doubt I'll lose a few winks of sleep over it. We could clear that issue up quickly if you had the stones to actually visit this place and see the kind of work that goes on. I'm really flattered that you're keeping up with my volume of posts. Nice to also see that you seem to know where I'm posting from. I seem to have forgotten giving you my vacation days taken schedule. Hmmmmmmmmm, must be senility kicking in early.[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'] Seems to me you spend all your time worrying about what others are doing. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to remember a post from you that didn't contain some type of complaint and blame-assignment of others for your plight and horrific, Third World-esque working conditions. Once again, what have you done to change things? Are you now or have you ever been active within your union? What are you doing to take your union leadership to task for the lousy supervision with which you are forced to work under? Or are you simply one of those malcontents who complain for complaint's sake, while never attempting to find a proactive solution to a problem? Lord knows there are plenty of those types at this company. No wonder this airline is failing.

So, I'm still waiting to hear YOUR suggestions to fix what's wrong with the airline, besides your usual cut everyone in management mantra. That's no more realistic than 100% outsourcing of every maintenace function. I'm asking for REALISTIC suggestions to fix your problems. You have tons of complaints and gripes, yet you seem a day late and a dime short on improvement ideas. What's that old expression? If you're not part of the solution than you're part of the problem? Yeah, I think that's it.

 

[kcabpilot]

subdued