We have a tentative agreement

[michael707767]

Mastermechanic,
we all know it takes more than just pilots to run an airline. But, what do you want from us? We are taking an big pay cut. How much did you take? Do you expect us to shoulder the entire burden while you don't suffer at all, cause it sounds like thats exactly what you want.

 

[magsau]

The pilots TA with UAL has a 4.6% pay increase being given in November of 2004. With additonal roughly 4.5% additional raises until reaching our current pay scale again in 2007. This TA would at least give us until 2008 before any new contract talks and perhaps give UAL an edge when it comes to competing with AA and others when contract time comes for them. The biggest thing besides revenue for an airline is contract harmony, IMO. There are many additional items in the ERP other than the 18% pay cut. All told we are contributing over 40% of the 5.8 billion requested by the company of all 4 unions. IMO all groups will see wage increases along the lines of their agreements and as such that the IAM is negotiating independently of the other unions I would not be able to guess what their wage increase/decrease or terms will be.

One of the big items is an opportunity to allow for early retirement without such a drastic penalty for those pilots that are near retirement age. This appears to allow a pilot to retire at age 59 and still get his normal retirement. Therefore you free up some of the high hourly salaries these pilots are making and limit the number of furloughs on the bottom. Also, doubling the number of retirements in one year will allow for some flexibility to resize the fleet to properly meet demands.

The agreement also allows for the furlough of up to 600 additional pilots. The number I have seen for the minimum number of pilots would be 7700. I believe this takes into account the projected early and regular retirments that are to occur. Before 9/11 we had 10,000+ and currently have around 8,800 active line pilots with 844 on furlough.

Profit sharing is addressed in this agreement ala/CO when Bethune took over from the people that started CO-Light. Anyway it says that UAL will give the employees 15% of profits that exceed target value and the pilots share would be 40% of the 15% due to our over 40% contribution to cost savings.

I almost forgot. My favorite item is the return of the shuttle is being discussed and a plan is being formulated to hopefully restart it. I have heard from some ALPA sources that it is said to not just be a west coast operation but to entail the east coast and ORD.

This is all interpeted from a quick data sheet that was distributed and I am sure more details will follow. All in all I believe this is a good agreement and with concession in hand Tilton can finally be give the tools to start kicking a@## as he has said he wants to do.

For mastermechanic, I am not sure if they addressed piano tuning as mine could shure use a little work Just joking. I notice you like to cherry pick comments about the pilot agreement. Of the pilots I know and myself included. The paid moves which seem to get your ire up, are few and far between. In fact there are so many restrictions that they are used by only a small portion of the pilot group. One caveat to those paid moves is that if a pilot chooses to have his BP-3 commuting passes for six months to his new domocile he loses the paid move. Also, a pilot cannot return to the base he left for 2 years if he chooses a paid move. This seriously impacts a pilot ability to change bases if he takes a paid move.

Anyway, that is all I have.

 

[300guy]

I thought alpa was supposed to preserve pilot jobs, not give the company full rein on upto 600 pilots. ERP 2 is soooooo great that I am going to be standing in line at the unemployment office. This really makes me want to vote for it. I know, I know, in the long run it will be better for us and the company. In my own opinion, which I had before 9/11, alpa is all about the senior guy and screw us junior guys. Case and point. Contract 2000 actually gave the 300 captains a pay CUT and the 400 guys a huge raise. How is this fair?? Okay, enough ranting. I guess I will have to vote for this because the alternative will be worse. Once again, I know, I know, take one for the team. I feel as my coach (alpa) has let me down on part of this aggreement. Just my own opinion.

 

[magsau]

300guy,

I understand your pain. However, how can we justify 300+ surplus lines? Sure we are probably going to have more furloughs but in my opinion the 600 number is more than actually will occur. ALPA's number one concern is as stated schedule with safety. Featherbedding is not an ALPA cause and nor should it be with the current economic strains we find the industry in.

The decision for so many furloughs can be laid at the hands of Dutta, Studdert and Goodwin.(parking the 727's, -200's and the Shuttle) Now that they are no longer in the equation I believe the furloughees will be back alot sooner with Tilton at the helm rather than those guys. When it comes to no furlough clauses in contracts they are about as enforceable as the old training contracts the airlines wanted pilots to sign. There are not too many judges that will side on the unions behalf to keep pilots in excess of the necessary on the property.

Unfortunately there are no guarantees on any contract. Just take a look at what UsAir is doing to the contract they signed recently, and hope that this ERP is enough to right UAL. (I believe it will be). While our situations are very different (we have more areas to derive revenue than U) we cannot afford to become complacent and not see the big picture.

Hang in there and the ride will get better.

 

[ual06]

For 300guy and others;

Back in the early ‘70s, I was a bachelor looking forward to a little gravy when they took away the potatoes. Six years, seven months, eight days, a wife, and three kids later, I was recalled as a pilot. Retired as a 747 Captain. Hang in there. You can do it too.

During my time with United, I worked with the best group of people I could have ever hoped to work with.

ual06

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/2/2002 1:36:41 PM mastermechanic wrote:

But the nose cowling design on the CFM 56 "guppies" I think tends to ground vortex a little more than the V2500 on the "scarebuses". As far as the DEN birds, it was my understanding that improper de-icing proceedures or lack there of was contributory to the damage to those planes.
----------------
[/blockquote]

If all types of jets were in DEN during the event and there was improper de-icing, then why would the Guppies be the only fleet with damaged jets? The responsible party is the City of DEN (or whoever is responsible for the condition of the taxiways.).

 

[GGpillow]

I wonder if F9 or any of the other folks flying Guppies in and out those days experienced similar issues? I'll have to ask around when I get back..

 

[mastermechanic]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/4/2002 2:43:18 AM Busdrvr wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/2/2002 1:36:41 PM mastermechanic wrote:

But the nose cowling design on the CFM 56 "guppies" I think tends to ground vortex a little more than the V2500 on the "scarebuses". As far as the DEN birds, it was my understanding that improper de-icing proceedures or lack there of was contributory to the damage to those planes.
----------------
[/blockquote]

If all types of jets were in DEN during the "event" and there was "improper" de-icing, then why would the Guppies be the only fleet with damaged jets? The responsible party is the City of DEN (or whoever is responsible for the condition of the taxiways.).

----------------
[/blockquote]
Only know what a couple of buddies of mine e-mailed me from DEN. FOD hazards have always been an nemesis of the jet turbine engine. I'm sure that airport operations bears some of that responsiblity.

 

[UAL777flyer]

magsau,

If what you say is true, than hopefully this new Shuttle operation will work as designed and not become merely a hub feeder. We need it everywhere, not just on the West Coast. If all parties are willing, as it appears they are, hopefully we'll come up with a competitive solution that puts us on closer to equal footing with the LCC's.

Now hopefully, the dispatchers, IAM and AFA T/A's will shortly follow. I assume also that the company must now negotiate a T/A with the new Engineer's union? I'm wondering if that will prove a time-consuming distraction considering the current circumstances and the fact that the up until a few days ago, these folks weren't represented by a union.

 

[300guy]

UAL777FLYER,

Honest question here. All we here about is the respective unions working with the company regarding their respective ERP. What has been presented to the management employees in respect to cuts?? It would seem that if the initial pilot ERP was not enough, that the original management cut was not enough. Can you fill me in please?? Thanks.

 

[Eagle]

I am certainly not as insightful as UAL777FLYER, but I can tell you our SRT representative sent an email today to sit tight, that they are in daily contact with Senior Management but are waiting for the union TAs to be completed before we are told what our contribution is to be. To come out sooner could upset the apple cart either way. One of the challenges is that we were never targeted to be industry leading, more middle to top middle of the pack (not that we got there). So to take a large percentage puts us below market value in many areas that could force more of the good ones to leave. To take to little makes it look like we are not contributing our share. It will be interesting to see what our package will look like.

 

[WXGuesser]

Speaking of T/A's, anybody know any specifics on the (Here Boy!!! Roll Over! Play Dead! Good Dog!!!) TWU's T/A for the meteorologists pay cut?

Just wondering how much of a financial beating my compatriots are taking over there. PM me to keep the info hidden from media types, if you would please...

Much Grass!!!!

Peace!!!!

 

[Rhino]

Shuttle, MetroJet, Delta Express,

None of these ever were or ever will be anything more than loss leaders in an attempt to retain market share against low-fare carriers. They won't work because they provide the SWA level of service at SWA prices. SWA makes money at those prices, the OALs don't.

Why not provide a clearly superior product and seek better yields? B6 should be the model/target, not WN. Do what you do best.

 

[Obregon]

And this is not a jab but it would be nice if UAL provided a superior product. None of the majors have lately. Not even close. I was not surprised at all when during the peak of industry just a few years ago a UAL flight attendant told Dave Letterman the passengers are the enemy. That's the way they felt.

 

[UnitedChicago]

Rhino & Obregon:

The demand for a superior product airline is just not there. It has been reported for two years now - and is only reported at times of airlines loses connected to a recession...remember the crisis of the early 90's that spawned the ESOP and Shuttle by United?? - that with the economy downturn, business' have cut travel budgets. I am an example of a business travel that has sat very much idle this year.

While Shuttle will most likely always lose money or break even...it is a necessary tool for United to maintain its size. You also must look beyond just the obvious revenue attributes attached to Shuttle. Even if the flight loses money on fares alone, the value to loyal flyers should be measured. More miles, more loyalty...can equate to sustained and reasonable happy customers. UA needs shuttle.