Virgin appearently wins gates at DAL

[WorldTraveler]

you have only recently gotten around to admitting that DL will be at DAL at all. For weeks you have said that the two gates were the difference between whether DL would be at DAL or not.

I have repeatedly said that DL would be at DAL one way or another and the two gates were not going to stop DL one way or another.

I am glad you recognize that the laws are on DL's side in terms of being at DAL.

I have never said that Wall St. dislikes AAL, just that DL is providing the standard for financial leadership in the industry.

AA might get there in time but they still have to deal with this pesky complete rearrangement of the DCA and N. Texas markets which are larger than any other airline has ever faced at the same time that AA has to merge AA and US and deal with the growth of new capacity into AA's top markets.

You did notice that AA flooded the Latin market with capacity at the same time DL did and yet DL's RASM stayed flat while AA's sank. It is precisely that type of competitive challenge that AA has to prove it can resolve and what happens at DAL, including with DL IN THE LOCAL MARKET is part of it.

Given that UA is supposedly close to tossing Smisek and company out, AA's window for revenue growth at UA's expense might not be as long as AA might want.

 

[does this plane go to paris]

How many times do want to bring up those 18 cities.  You were brought to task by the facts by several folks here.  What's the bigger shame, closing 18 cities that had limited service or decimating hubs in CVG, MEM or DFW?
 
I hate to break this to ya, but DL is not the darling of Wall Street, that happens to belong to SAVE.
 
WN's is changing.  According to Seeking Alpha, that's an American outlet, not an one from Australia,  noted last week that WN is capturing more Business/Corporate Accounts.  You failed to mention that.
 
The topic is suppose to be about the gates at DAL and not the constant promotion of a different airline.  There is a forum all about Delta, just a few clicks away.

 

[700UW]

Dont forget MCO also.

DL shut that down too.
 
And cut tons of jobs in MSP.

 

[does this plane go to paris]

Thanks 700,  I guess I forgot about MCO and Delta's failed Song operation.  

 

[700UW]

And dont forget Delta Express that failed too.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and I have never failed to acknowledge the strategic failures that DL has made. But let's also list those made by other legacy carriers too.

After 80 years of operations, all of the legacy carriers have made mistakes and failed to adapt in one form or another.

WN is passing thru a phase. I have noted that. And I have also stated that I believe WN will emerge from it....

when people like 700 continue to want to throw mud but can't acknowledge the enormous strategic failures that his former employer has made, it makes it easy to push him right back into the corner which he has put himself in.

I have no doubt that WN will not be backed into the same type of corner but it is a fantasy to think that WN won't be forced to abandon a lot of what has defined it including perpetually much higher salaries than the rest of the industry. They simply are not generating the revenues that other carriers like DL are generating to sustain those costs.

SAVE has had very strong returns but it is far from the post profitable airline and it certainly hasn't provided near the level of profits for a larger investment pool... IOW, they are relatively small and serve a niche market. That is completely different from the big 4


none of which changes one iota that a chorus of people crowed for months that DL would be shut out of the DAL gate bid which would mean they could not serve DAL.

The evidence is growing increasingly strong that DL will have a place at DAL regardless of what the DOJ wants or not and even if DAL does act the way DOJ wants, it has the potential to do far more harm to WN than if the City of Dallas would simply convert the gates to common use and allow DL and VX to coexist. DL will serve DAL and it is far more in WN's interest for them to be able to grow their operation without having to accommodate a bunch of new entrant carriers that will quickly find out how valuable DAL as an airport actually is.

 

[robbedagain]

Does this plane go to paris:  you need to remember  wt will only say what fits his narritives    and he will change things to make sure it fits his narritives.   DL in his eyes can do no wrong  but no other airlines can do no right     

 

[swamt]

Sharon, thx for posting the article from TM.   As much as I would love to say SWA will get the gates, I do not believe this will happen.  The city of Dal will make their decision (hopefully this afternoon) and pretty sure they will stick with the VA choice.  My reasons for this guess is purely on a competition basis, and adding another LCC will keep the fares low.  However, if the COD takes in all the facts, SWA will be the better choice all around.  SWA would add the most passengers, which will generate a larger concessions at the airport from food to parking and area hotel business.  With SWA adding more flights in their proposals this will generate the most and highest income for the airport as far as landing fees, leases and other airport cost that will directly be the best option for the COD income.  SWA would keep the fares low (lower than DFW).  All these numbers would in return increase the investors take for both the city, the airport and SWA.  WT will look for anything negative that he can on SWA.  He is very upset that SWA, so far, has gotten what they wanted with all the divesture gates, this is his only hope left that SWA just might lose one.  Sharon I really hope we get the gates, but I have said from the get go if it came down to SWA and VA left in the running, it would be a long shot for SWA to win the gates.  Let's see what they say after this meeting this afternoon.

 

[LD3]

Me thinks the DL law boys should look at slapping a gag order on someone....

 

[WorldTraveler]

Me thinks the DL law boys should look at slapping a gag order on someone....

plz... for being able to think? I read what is in the press and make my own decisions. No one at DL needs to coach me on common sense and a little business understanding.

and it doesn't take a whole lot of business sense to realize that the City of Dallas is not going to allocate any more gates to WN when doing so would absolutely invite charges that they are protecting a federally funded airport for the benefit of one carrier.

Unlike every other major airline hub, DAL is highly desirable but has a severe shortage of gates.

Virgin isn't bringing new competition to the metroplex when half of their flights from DAL will just be ones they have moved from DFW.

AA wants direct competitors out of its markets and it is clear that Virgin's move out of DFW is about that along with eliminating the PHL flights.

DL proposes real competition to both WN and AA.. .and that is what Dallas needs and has lacked for years because of the AA/WN duopoly that both are trying to continue.

 

[swamt]

No one has said Delta will not operate at LF.  No one WT.  This is only you saying someone has stated it, as this is how you comprehend things to be.  Now I have said wouldn't it be great if Delta did end up out of LF and moving the flights to DFW,  OR would it be funny if Delta had to share gates with VA or EJ, so why would I say that if, as you say, I
said that Delta is gone from LF.  I never said that. Get a clue and learn to comprehend.  BTW, where are all the legal challenges and suits?   I will tell you this, IF-I said IF SWA is awarded the gates after the VA dog and pony show to push for approval, you will more than likely see legal challenges and suits kick off, but it won't be from Delta because they are not an LCC and nor are the a good divesture candidate per the DOJ quotes earlier in the month.  The challenges will more than likely come from VA.   

 

[swamt]

WT put to rest until new info comes out. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

excuse me but who started this thread? You are the one that has continually jumped on one new piece of information after another in an attempt to try to prove that DL will be kept out of the process.

I'm happy to put the DAL discussion to rest - but then keep it that way until DL either confirms it is at DAL with whatever final schedule or withdraws its schedules and doesn't fight to get back in.

I have repeatedly said that the two gates are not the real measure of how this will all end. The published schedules of all airlines that will operate from DAL is the issue.

So far, WN has yet to confirm its own schedules which tells me they are a whole lot less certain of what they will operate and who they will have to compete with than you think.

I'm happy to put it to rest as long as you and everyone else do the same.

 

[LD3]

 

plz... DL proposes real competition to both WN and AA.. .and that is what Dallas needs and has lacked for years because of the AA/WN duopoly that both are trying to continue.

 
Didn't DL have a sizable operation to compete with AA in DFW years ago?

 

[eolesen]

and I have never failed to acknowledge the strategic failures that DL has made.

Please... you've attempted to spin every strategic failure at the Widget into forward-thinking genius for the past 10+ years...


The posturing by certain members of the City Council won't change the decision much. Those gates are going to Virgin one way or another. For WN to get the additional two gates would require an act of Congress to change the compromise agreement (where they're limited by statute to 16 of the 20 gates). Nobody wants to touch that, because the whole cap on gates could come unglued, and then you'd have another decade of lawsuits over noise and broken promises...