Virgin appearently wins gates at DAL

[WorldTraveler]

the case is not over.

You, 700, will pick a fight with God to try to prove yourself right but the simple fact is that DAL gates are part of the divestiture process.

DL will be at DAL post-Wright and they published their schedules because they intend to be there post Wright. That is what we are talking about, Kev. Dozens of posts haven't taken place based on what is clearly going on there now.

No, robbed, from incorrectly quoting pay raise amounts you don't understand and neither do the vast majority of people who have tried to weigh in on how the DAL gates will be allocated.

subject to antitrust regulations, the government whether it be the DOJ or the City of Dallas, does not legally have the right to choose carriers to serve an airport based on whether those carriers are LCC (claimed or real), whether they have service at another airport at a region, or any other factor other than that any carrier that wants to start service at an airport that receives federal funds must be accommodated

it is that simple and it will be the way it will be done at DAL.

 

[swamt]

Southwest Airlines rebuts Virgin America rebuttal of city of Dallas study
 
Above is a good article from Terry Maxon.  When starting out you will see where to click to read Delta's 11 pages submitted to the COD for gate claims.  11 pages WT not dozens.  
 
The rebut from SWA about VA sure does bring up some numbers that show the real traffic numbers in the Dallas market.  When you look at the entire Dallas market as a whole, SWA would only have like 10% if they were to be awarded the 2 gates.  Here's the quote, go to DMN to read full article:
1. Love Field (DAL) is not a separate market isolated from the rest of Dallas, and Southwest has no “monopoly” on Dallas gates or air service. DAL and DFW make up a single Dallas air service market that is dominated by American, not Southwest. Even with 2 additional Love Field gates, Southwest would have only 10% of all gates in the Dallas market. American would have 67%.

 

[robbedagain]

even after the city determines who gets the 2 slots  if for example it goes straight to VX  then DL gets knocked down further  but as I said theyre not out of the woods  but I do not know how many gates ua has  but it is possible they could help dl  but its gonna be a long process 
 
btw we all are still waiting for that famous legal challenge for both dca n lga slots   none of which has come to life  and its highly doubtful it will.
 
most of us posters according to you don't know jacksh!t bec you portray every one of us to be dumb n stupid bec we disagree with your theories  but yet when you are shown to be wrong you change things to suit your dl is the best  narratives..    sorry but dl is just as good as any other us based airline  regardless

 

[eolesen]

You, 700, will pick a fight with God to try to prove yourself right but the simple fact is that DAL gates are part of the divestiture process.

Are you actually now invoking God's name to advance your cause? I certainly hope you're not inferring that you may indeed be God, since 700 has picked a fight with you...

Is that it, or are you consumed with the idea of being right?

 
^ This ^
 

telling me what?

that the residents of Dallas don't want two airlines do dominate two separate airports.

that is what they are saying.

Uh, no. You have a couple of elected officials who recognize that Southwest is a good corporate citizen making a case, but it's not necessarily the view of "the residents of Dallas"...

At best, it's the view of those making the statements.

The people in the neighborhoods around DAL would prefer to see it closed. The vast majority of residents of Dallas are likely entirely ambivalent on who gets the gates, since it's of no consequence to them.

 

[WorldTraveler]

oh, please. the point is about 700's propensity to argue with ANYONE, human or divine.

it has been pointed out multiple times that no legal challenge would take place until the whole divestiture process is completed. The DAL gates are part of the issue and clearly the one that matters most to DL.

If DL gets access to DAL as I expect they will, there MAY BE no basis for any lawsuit.

for those who care about the issue of who gets the gates, they know full well that more choices are better. There isn't a community in the US that wants to be dominated by one company, WN included.

And WN isn't going anywhere and won't be any less of a good citizen regardless of the outcome of two more gates.

but they aren't getting access to any more gates as long as there are carriers of any stripe or none at all that want into the airport. that is the way US airport access laws work.

swamt,
you and WN can argue all you want about single markets but that is not the way US airport laws work.

There is NOTHING that says that any carrier can be refused access to a market based on their presence at any other airport. NONE.

DAL will be a popular airport and WN as the primary tenant will have to accommodate all of the guests who want to show up. That is the way the lease is written and what WN agreed to.

Note also how many of the points that DL made in its letters are exactly the arguments about access that I have repeatedly made here.

Either I am being paid a whole lot of money to consult for DL - yt I have no idea where the money is - or I really do know the issues at stake as does DL, who isn't going to roll over and play dead.

here is the direct link to the DL letter

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/files/2014/04/Delta-law-firm-letter-to-Dallas-mayor-and-City-Council-April-28-2014.pdf

notice that DL specifically states in its Feb 19, 2014 letter that, if DL does not gain the two gates at DAL,it requests to be accommodated at DAL based on DAL's federal requirements to accommodate other carriers based on the 2006 agreement.

It is precisely for this reason that DL's schedules post Wright remain for sale. WN is well aware of DL's intent to obtain access.

 

[700UW]

I am not arguing anything.
 
And show me and the board where I argued with God or anything Divine?
 
Hint hint, you wont, cause you lied again.
 
I have asked you numerous times, where is the legal challenge over the LGA and DCA slots, you are the one who stated over and over Delta will file a legal challenge.
 
Yet you fail to back it up, the merger was totally approved in court the other day and the slots were sold over a month ago, where is the legal challenge?
 
Your words, not mine.
 
And you have been asked many times to show us what law and what statues that the DOJ violated, yet you failed once again to show the board specific language backing up YOUR statements.
 
See when you know you BSed everyone you deflect, change and attack.

 

[swamt]

I don't have time to research and copy and paste, but I read the 7 page document.  It states in there, more than once that the common gate issues you keep going on and on about, will be avoided if it was deemed  to be financial harm towards the city or airport.   Then there is a statement later on saying something in line with doing any kind of harm what so ever to the City, airport, locals etc...
The document Delta sends to the City has the outs in them that the City can use to not use the gates as common use.  Don't make me explain the possible harm reasons...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I never said that you HAD argued with God. You really need to study verb tenses in the English language.

I'm sorry that you can't get it. if you aren't arguing, then you are just plain not smart enough to read and understand the discussion. There are no other options.



DL will be at DAL post Wright.

You and a whole lot of other people are the ones trying to avoid admitting that I had the key issues of this case nailed months ago and these issues will be the ones that will prevail.

swamt,
DL also notes that DAL is one of only 4 airports out of 120 that do not have common use gates, that Congess has specifically said that airports should be provided to all carriers, and that DAL incorporated that in its access plan which is in the 2006 agreement and which WN signed.

There is no harm to DAL by denying the sublease. Go read it again. AA has no right to the gates any longer and cannot assign a lease which it is not entitled to have. The merger has closed.

WN won't get the gates as long as any other carrier including DL wants to be there. That is federal law regardless of what happens with the lease/sublease.

DL can either park at common use gates or at WN's gates.

DL will be at DAL post Wright.

I think someone is going to owe me a steak dinner. and I fully intend to collect.

 

[700UW]

Still not answering I see.
 
Where is the legal challenge over DCA and LGA?
 
What law, and give us the exact wording where the DOJ cant do what they did?
 
How many times do you have to be asked to back up YOUR statements?

 

[WorldTraveler]

click on the link to the DL letter.

If you even begin to understand the issues, you will see dozens of citations to law which DL included.

whether you get it or not, the City of Dallas and Southwest and Virgin all have lawyers who do read the fine print and do understand the legal issues involved.

Even WN's last line says "if gates become available..."

they could have saved the whole rest of their letter because there are no gates available. The airport has way more interest from airlines that want to serve it than gates available.

You gotta give them credit for trying but they will be hosting either DL or Virgin or perhaps both carriers' flights at "WN" gates.

 

[700UW]

Cop out.
 
And DL's letter is about DAL, not DCA and LGA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

cop out nothing.

the issue is about the divestiture process. DAL is part of it.

DL will be at DAL and will enjoy it as much or more than WN will enjoy its expanded service at DCA.

probably more because AA can't show up 'cause they signed away their right to defend their hometown at one of the key airports.

You will be amazed at how much of the current DFW local market shifts to DAL in a few months.

 

[700UW]

Yes it is a cop out.
 
The DCA and LGA transactions have nothing to do with DAL.
 
Where is the legal challenge?
 
Where is the exact wording that should stop the DOJ?
 
And you do know the merger was fully approved by the courts this week?

 

[WorldTraveler]

are you serious?

The DCA and LGA slot divestitures and the gate divestitures at 6 airports including DAL would not be an issue if AA/US had not merged and the DOJ had not gotten involved.

yes, it is precisely because the merger was approved that the DOJ's involvement in the issue is finished. The City of Dallas now has to decide whether they submit to the DOJ's recommendation.

you do realize the CoD did not approve the lease transfer specifically because of legal concerns?

whether you do or not, the only question is whether Virgin will move to DAL if its lease gets approved and if it does where DL and Virgin's gates will all park.

whether you can accept it or not, the key issue IS federally required access to US airports which DAL MUST comply with and which guarantees that DL will be at DAL. Virgin can be there too. They just may not get preferential use gates.

between UA's gates and these two, honestly, the majority of what DL and Virgin propose can be accommodated at DAL with only a few flights per day operating at "WN" gates.

 

[700UW]

Where is the legal challenge for the LGA and DCA slot divestiture?
 
Where is the exact law and wording?