USAirways pilots labor thread 7/23-7-29

[cleardirect]

Thank you HP for the information. I don't favor either side, I feel bad for both because I don't believe this is going to ever be resolved. I do work on the East and have heard enough people say they will never ever share a flight deck in the scenario I hypothesized (is that even a word?) earlier...that they will call off sick or walk off the plane, etc before they will agree to it. This concerns me because we have a decent sized operation here and I see havoc coming more in the future. I hope I am pay protected through it all.

I'm sad when I hear about people I work with getting denied jumpseat priviliges when they are on west metal. Again, not all the time, but I'm sad both sides are so embroiled in such a battle. I hope for the best for everyone. I just wish we could all get a single agreement and move forward.

But do you ever heard about the west guys getting denied on east metal? It happens. Please remember that you are hearing one side of the story.

Ask yourselves why would your pilots never share a flight deck. Ego? Do they somehow feel entitled to that seat? Are they opposed to flying with anyone younger then they are? What really is the reason that east pilots are going to refuse to fly with west pilots?

They are free to walk off any plane they like. However if that is their choice without a reason other then they feel entitled to something they don’t have. The consequences will be that they do not get paid. If their integrity allows they to forego the money for the feeling so be it.

Rest assured that the rest of the crew will be paid if an east pilots decides to strand the rest of the crew. Another consequence of that decision will be a chat with the chief pilot. He is free to do whatever he likes. But he will have to justify that decision. My guess is that a few may show some bravado but in the end. When it comes down to a job or standing on their principles on “never letting that happenâ€￾ It is going to happen.

The biggest issue that the east and west pilots have had is acceptance. The east pilots refused to accept the results of binding arbitration. They are now refusing the results of a federal law suit. They say they will refuse the results of a contract that includes the Nicolau list and flying with a west pilot. In order to believe that the east pilots will walk off of airplanes. You have to accept the premise that the east pilots have been victims in this whole affair. That they had no hand in the direction. That somehow they were forced into this situation with no choice.

 

[A320 Driver]

Thank you HP for the information. I don't favor either side, I feel bad for both because I don't believe this is going to ever be resolved. I do work on the East and have heard enough people say they will never ever share a flight deck in the scenario I hypothesized (is that even a word?) earlier...that they will call off sick or walk off the plane, etc before they will agree to it. This concerns me because we have a decent sized operation here and I see havoc coming more in the future. I hope I am pay protected through it all.

I'm sad when I hear about people I work with getting denied jumpseat priviliges when they are on west metal. Again, not all the time, but I'm sad both sides are so embroiled in such a battle. I hope for the best for everyone. I just wish we could all get a single agreement and move forward.

It was a sad day when some Captain decided to play politics with the jumpseat. It was juvenile at best. The others that followed are worse.

Driver <_<

 

[captainJack]

They can have all the animosity they want.

You may need USAPA protection when that FO directly turns you into the FAA and/or the New York Times..... I'd get those dues paid up.

One thing experience gets you is the ability to control the cockpit from any seat. Confront the person and, believe me, the end result will be a Nicholau awardee who will be happy to take himself off a trip. I've seen similar happen in PIT, heard about it at CAL post-strike and fully expect to hear about it happening in PHX if the "award" is imposed. Fully expect that you will be ganged up upon.

Be very, very careful what you wish for because whenever I talk with FOs about Solomon's split baby, payback a "nickel at a time" keeps coming to mind.

Good luck with your naive thinking.....

 

[cleardirect]

What's this I hear about Derek Kerr saying the E190's could be up for sale?

Well I guess fragmentation could be closer then we thought. Send the 190’s and pilots to some commuter. Or maybe just the planes. You know under separate ops that is all east flying. The mainline planes would have to be pulled back off west routes to replace the 190 flying.

No more black tops in PHX. The PHX and LAS west flying is restored to where it started.

The 190’s are not part of the T/A fleet min. So no grievance. It restores block hours to the west, takes care of that grievance.

Most of the angry F/O’s get a redo on a seniority list. Yes this could put right all of the ills of this merger.

 

[ableoneable]

Freighter, the reason I mentioned UAL MEC's cars was to see what kind of attack responses we would get. We got them. No point arguing directly with them on anything.

Attack responses? Please give an example.

I guess I didn't mention UAL once owned 2 Condos in ORD. Dont know if still true. Or their 2 cars in SFO. Or their MEC Chairman gets 100 hour/month AND per diem AND expense account. Alaska and DAL MEC Chairman got 100hrs/month. Even Comair's Chairman got 100 hours. But it makes no difference, you hit it right. Different conditions require different responses. West had only one domicile for years. Most of their officers living in PHX, Id bet.

Just more of the same; "ALPA was worse, see here and here and here they spend more and were really, really evil."

Absolutely no justification for the purchase of two cars just more talk about ALPA. Did the BPR get a chance to weigh in on this decision or was it done by Cleary on his own?

Comparing LM-2s, APA has a yearly payroll of over $6M for 10,405 members. With 5,000 members, ours wont be close to $2M, year to year. APA has 20 pilots on FPL of over $150K/year each. Their president is paid over $250K/yr. SWAPA President made $253K salary last year plus per diem and expenses. SWAPA VP at $223K. Sure, both AMR and SWA pilots make more than us, but their leaders make a higher percentage than rank and file LCC C/Os.

More of the same, pointing to what the other guys do but absolutely nothing about USAPA's actions. This appears to be the only play-book USAPA apologist's have.

West can argue the quality of representation all they want. So they dont like expenditures and pay, they can become members and change the union a lot easier than at ALPA. These guys just want something to complain about. lt wouldn't make any difference what it was.

"...just want something to complain about.." That is hilarious coming from someone trying to steal my job.

Your right, buying a car is cheaper than rentals, even cheaper than auto leases. If we leased, they would complain we didn't buy. These guys just want to trash any thing USAPA does. Also, we are in the building in CLT because we got the space for a song. The set-up we have is cheap.

More slapping each other on the back instead of responding to the original question. Buying a car can be cheaper than renting one for 365 days a year but why does USAPA need access to a car at all?

The officers on FPL should use their own cars, they are already paid at 85 hrs and what is that "stipend" designed to pay for, lap dances? A $1000/mo stipend should easily cover wear and tear on a personal vehicle.

 

[captainJack]

CaptainJack, you completely missed my sarcastic intent so let me clear it up.

First, the facts.

The 9th Circuit actually does have a liberal bent.

Actually you need to work on your "sarcasm".

Your statement about the 9th is not a fact. It is an opinion. The appropriate phrase is: The 9th Circuit, in my opinion, actually does have a liberal bent.

That is an opinion, however, not shared with everyone.

Besides all that. What, exactly does the term "liberal" mean to you? The 9th "freely" interprets law, or they follow the rule of law? or something else? The "not liberal" last administration rarely followed the rule of law and interpreted law as they felt. What does that make them?

A federal district judge down the street, a Mormon, takes issue with your characterization, but then, as he said, who am I to take issue with a paralegal trainee.

That, my friend, is sarcasm.

 

[Hawkhunter]

But do you ever heard about the west guys getting denied on east metal? It happens. Please remember that you are hearing one side of the story.

Ask yourselves why would your pilots never share a flight deck. Ego? Do they somehow feel entitled to that seat? Are they opposed to flying with anyone younger then they are? What really is the reason that east pilots are going to refuse to fly with west pilots?

They are free to walk off any plane they like. However if that is their choice without a reason other then they feel entitled to something they don’t have. The consequences will be that they do not get paid. If their integrity allows they to forego the money for the feeling so be it.

Rest assured that the rest of the crew will be paid if an east pilots decides to strand the rest of the crew. Another consequence of that decision will be a chat with the chief pilot. He is free to do whatever he likes. But he will have to justify that decision. My guess is that a few may show some bravado but in the end. When it comes down to a job or standing on their principles on “never letting that happenâ€￾ It is going to happen.

The biggest issue that the east and west pilots have had is acceptance. The east pilots refused to accept the results of binding arbitration. They are now refusing the results of a federal law suit. They say they will refuse the results of a contract that includes the Nicolau list and flying with a west pilot. In order to believe that the east pilots will walk off of airplanes. You have to accept the premise that the east pilots have been victims in this whole affair. That they had no hand in the direction. That somehow they were forced into this situation with no choice.

If the West Captain runs his mouth like on these boards he will have alot of FOs getting off the trip. I guess the Captain can explain to the Chief Pilot why nobody will fly with him. If you think that when you come East that you are going to be treated well, then think again. We learned how to be rude by watching our brothers from the West. Good luck. Dont worry you wont be coming East anytime soon.

 

[cleardirect]

You may need USAPA protection when that FO directly turns you into the FAA and/or the New York Times..... I'd get those dues paid up.

One thing experience gets you is the ability to control the cockpit from any seat. Confront the person and, believe me, the end result will be a Nicholau awardee who will be happy to take himself off a trip. I've seen similar happen in PIT, heard about it at CAL post-strike and fully expect to hear about it happening in PHX if the "award" is imposed. Fully expect that you will be ganged up upon.

Be very, very careful what you wish for because whenever I talk with FOs about Solomon's split baby, payback a "nickel at a time" keeps coming to mind.

Good luck with your naive thinking.....

Reality must be setting in. The desperation is coming out.

Did you just threaten us with blackmail? That an angry FO would skip usapa pro standards or the FAA and go directly to the press. For what? Not bending over and making it easier for you to take from him?

Now you are advocating insubordination. Encouraging confrontation. “Ganged up onâ€￾ Now there is typical union action that I expect from the east.

You anticipate all of the games you like. But the post exemplifies the worst in unionism and human behavior.

Nicolau did not split the baby. He was not required to. If your MC thought that was the way it happened then they severally misunderstood the process. That is on them and you. Not the west or Nicolau.

Yes this federal injunction is going to impose exactly what you the east pilots agreed to. It should not have had to be imposed. As gentlemen you should have accepted it but you did not. Therefore a much bigger gang. The us federal government with make sure that our rights are respected.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Well I guess fragmentation could be closer then we thought. Send the 190’s and pilots to some commuter. Or maybe just the planes. You know under separate ops that is all east flying. The mainline planes would have to be pulled back off west routes to replace the 190 flying.

No more black tops in PHX. The PHX and LAS west flying is restored to where it started.

The 190’s are not part of the T/A fleet min. So no grievance. It restores block hours to the west, takes care of that grievance.

Most of the angry F/O’s get a redo on a seniority list. Yes this could put right all of the ills of this merger.

What a rude post. As far as angry F/Os. Everytime I see one of you guys I get the "Look". Talk about teed off. I think you should look at your own group pal. I dont see many smiles.

 

[hp_fa]

Actually you need to work on your "sarcasm".

Fair enough.

Your statement about the 9th is not a fact. It is an opinion. The appropriate phrase is: The 9th Circuit, in my opinion, actually does have a liberal bent.

That is an opinion, however, not shared with everyone.

Fair enough.

I am not going to put in a lot of time here and I don't use Wikipedia as a controlling source for serious citation purposes, but look under the topic "Controversy" in the linked article and maybe you can get more sourcing material there. Link

Besides all that. What, exactly does the term "liberal" mean to you? The 9th "freely" interprets law, or they follow the rule of law? or something else? The "not liberal" last administration rarely followed the rule of law and interpreted law as they felt. What does that make them?

As you point out, liberal is in the eye of the beholder and your questions are valid and to be answered privately by each individual.

A federal district judge down the street, a Mormon, takes issue with your characterization, but then, as he said, who am I to take issue with a paralegal trainee.

Wow, you got an opinion from him on my characterization that fast? He must not be busy today. (How was that sarcasm?)

Oh, and not a trainee.....

Oh, and I never said that all of the individual judges were liberal did I? It was a generalized perception remark of the collective 9th Circuit.

 

[cleardirect]

What a rude post. As far as angry F/Os. Everytime I see one of you guys I get the "Look". Talk about teed off. I think you should look at your own group pal. I dont see many smiles.

Really. When I smile at east F/O's they are to busy looking at their shoes or some spot on the ceiling to notice.

What do you find so interesting?

The captains are very nice and have a lot to talk about. Maybe they are just tired of listening to the FO whine and demand that the captain continue to delay his raise.

 

[HPDriver]

You may need USAPA protection when that FO directly turns you into the FAA and/or the New York Times..... I'd get those dues paid up.

One thing experience gets you is the ability to control the cockpit from any seat. Confront the person and, believe me, the end result will be a Nicholau awardee who will be happy to take himself off a trip. I've seen similar happen in PIT, heard about it at CAL post-strike and fully expect to hear about it happening in PHX if the "award" is imposed. Fully expect that you will be ganged up upon.

Be very, very careful what you wish for because whenever I talk with FOs about Solomon's split baby, payback a "nickel at a time" keeps coming to mind.

Good luck with your naive thinking.....

Yawn.

 

[HPDriver]

US Airways considers cutting its E-190 fleet
By Lori Ranson


Management at US Airways has launched an evaluation of elimination its fleet of 25 Embraer E-190s through direct sales or subleases.
Today during an earnings call with analysts and investors carrier President Scott Kirby said the fleet represents roughly 2.5% of total consolidated capacity at US Airways, and cutting the fleet would give the carrier additional flexibility to reduce its available seat miles.
Kirby also explains the E-Jet represent a small sub-fleet whose elimination could also create operational gains for the carrier. The aircraft are also in demand globally, so US Airways believes getting rid of the E-Jets is something the carrier "can effectively implement from a financial perspective", says Kirby.
US Airways owns the 25 aircraft, and company chief executive Doug Parker stresses the potential cutting of E-Jets from its fleet is not to raise liquidity, but to enhance long-term profitability.
In August 2005 US Airways issued a request for proposal to regional partners Air Wisconsin, Mesa Air Group and Republic Airways Holdings to operate up to 25 E-190s once it merged with America West.
But after mainline pilot protests a transition deal was ratified by America West and US Airways pilots to limit E-190 flying to mainline operations.

That should thin out the angry FO crowd quite nicely and help out with those that have a problem flying with west Captains.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Really. When I smile at east F/O's they are to busy looking at their shoes or some spot on the ceiling to notice.

What do you find so interesting?

The captains are very nice and have a lot to talk about. Maybe they are just tired of listening to the FO whine and demand that the captain continue to delay his raise.

Wrong again, I am a Captain and I do not consider my FOs whining at all. I will vote no. Keep throwing out the crap somebody might believe you someday.

 

[HPDriver]

I am a Captain and I do not consider my FOs whining at all

Then you're the exception.

Many Captains out east have had enough.