Usair Hanging On To Her Assets

[AAviator]

You also said: "I simply posted my comments after AAviator commented how much he liked and supported the PHL Reps, who clearly lack integrity."

I never said I liked them. In fact it sucks that they could have killed this T/A, sent the negotiating committe back to work, and taken the company initial offer, as you suggest they did in the first place.

The vote of the PHL and PIT bases clearly shows that they were in the right IF they had done the roll call vote and killed the T/A.

Am I correct?

Remember, this is not a moral position we're talking about here. Lets call it a term YOU'RE familiar with. Lets call it a "technical analysis" OK?

I know you're too much of a jellyfish to answer the question. You'll spin it to something else.

 

[N924PS]

I think you're a littel off base. AS BoeingBoy knows and failed to report, let me give you some facts from the ALPA message Board.

From: [email protected] (Boston First Officer Rep)
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2005  11:50 am
Subject: Mike D'Angelo Replies...MEC Representational Impropriety? AAA WebBoard Post 

Subject: MEC Representational Impropriety?
Author: GARLAND JONES
Date: 29 Apr 2005 11:46 AM
Subj: ALPA National and the Question of MEC Representational Impropriety
Date: 4/28/05 2:03:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Garland Jones
 
Members of the MEC and MEC Committees,

We now all know that at our April 18th Special MEC Meeting F/O Rep Dan Von Bargen had resigned from US Airways, apparently because he had already started training at another airline.  And in his stead, carrying his proxy as the F/O Rep from PHL, was David Ciabattoni.  And in his capacity as proxy holder for Dan Von Bargen, F/O Ciabattoni engaged in the debate, was admitted to closed and highly confidential MEC discussions, and voted on a Resolution that addressed the sale of MDA.

What we don't know is how many of you were aware that Dan Von Bargen had resigned, obviously begging the question if he had the right to give a proxy at all, and yet did not have the basic, common courtesy of informing the entire MEC of this fact.

One must wonder at the motives of such individuals who would intentionally keep such information from the MEC and MEC Officers, and thereby now requiring the involvement of ALPA National in the question of representational impropriety due to the possible illegal and fraudulent use of Dan Von Bargen's proxy at an MEC Meeting.

Dan Von Bargen certainly knew in advance, and said nothing to the MEC.  The Capt. Rep from PHL, John Crocker, was at that MEC Meeting, and said nothing to the MEC.  David Ciabattoni was carrying the proxy of a Rep he knew had resigned from US Airways, and said nothing to the MEC.  Did any other members of the MEC, or members of MEC Committees, also know of this, and said nothing to the rest of us?

So the question to those individuals who did know is, why the silence?  Where is the representational professionalism that would, at a minimum, call for a full disclosure to the MEC, and, more importantly, to the pilots that we represent?

That silence has resulted in the question of fraudulent representation left to be settled, and the absence of a F/O Representative for the PHL base from the time of Dan Von Bargen's resignation to their next LEC Meeting where they will elect an interim F/O Rep. 

So again let me ask the obvious question, what was the motive for such silence, such willingness to engage in possibly fraudulent representation, such absence of professional courtesy to the MEC, and such complete disregard for lack of representation for the pilots of PHL?

Fraternally,

Garland

----------------------

Subj: [U-Boston-Pilots] Re: ALPA National and the Question of MEC Representational Impropriety 
Date: 4/28/05 10:27:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

Garland,

As you know, this has nothing to do with the usual MEC politics, this went way beyond that. This was a fraud, pure and simple run on the MEC and all the pilots at this airline. We now have over 15% of the entire pilot group not represented. For Von Bargen to send a proxy to a meeting while sitting in a classroom for another ALPA carrier and hide that fact from the MEC and the pilots he represented is criminal to me. And for the others who knew it, (and I know others knew) and sat in on the MEC meeting and just watched not saying a word to the MEC, (who they work for), is pathetic lack of character. These frauds just wasted over $25,000.00 of YOUR money on a meeting that is going to be voided. I have asked National to do a full investigation on this. There's a lot more of this story to come out. 

Mike
MEC Secretary/Treasurer

USA320Pilot comments: The ALPA MEC Chairman has written a letter to Paul Rice, ALPA International VP of Adminstration requesting a formal investigation into the alleged fraud conducted by all of the PHL Reps. Why did BoeingBoy, AAviator, and Bud8EE not tell all of the whole story, again?

BoeingBoy, it's not mud slinging to discuss facts. You do a great job of cut and pasting old posts to try and discredit people and you do not tell the whole story. You know it and I know it, which is what I call a lack of integrity.

You do and that's your choice. 

I do not support liars and people who lack integrity, thus here are the facts from an MEC Officer and MEC Rep. Maybe you and others support liars, people who lack integrity, and frauds, but I do not.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269747"][/post]​

As I said, one need not look any farther than the BOS F/O REP to find the genus of yet another trumped up attempt to discredit anyone connected to the RC4.

As most are aware, with 4 notable exceptions, the USAirways MEC and its Chairman are light in the integrity department. They will be gone soon after the combination of AW and U, if not before.

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

BoeingBoy said: And you say others give a one-sided view. Then there's the question of posting private e-mails - something your friend Garland regularly does while others are admonished not to. I'm surprised you can spell integrity, your friend from BOS obviously can't....

USA320Pilot comments: There you go again with your misrepresentation in a public forum and your two-sided personality. Boston F/O Rep Garland Jones’ comments were placed on the ALPA message board and along with those of MEC Secretary/Treasurer Mike D’Angelo. You logged onto the ALPA website on April 28 and saw those comments, but failed to report the whole story.

That’s where I take exception with your biased comments, along with your comments on the ALPA message board that are in stark contrast to what you post on this message board.

All you have to do is tell the whole story and not go into the archives and selectively post information to try and discredit others.

PineyBob:

PineyBob, I did not insult BoeingBoy I told the truth. He selectively cuts and pastes archived comments to purposely misrepresent information and that’s a fact. By the way, my children do not call people names, but you as a grown man do. Interesting.

AAviator:

Yes I voted for the TA because it was better than liquidation, which Lakefield told the MEC would occur if the TA wwas voted down. Did you miss that point too? In regard to ethics, can you tell me why the ALPA vice president of administration is investigating every PHL Rep along with a new charge now against the PIT F/O Rep. Should we go into that too?

N924PS

Your comments are off-base and the PHL Reps and the PIT F/O Rep are under investigation by ALPA National. They’re the only people under investigation for ethics problems and face potential Article VIII charges that could lead to expulsion from the union.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[fr8tmastr]

Your comments are off-base and the PHL Reps and the PIT F/O Rep are under investigation by ALPA National. They’re the only people under investigation for ethics problems and face potential Article VIII charges that could lead to expulsion from the union
[/quote]

That is funny threats from Paul Rice about Article 8 charges. If Article 8 meant anything that guy would bring himself up on charges.
Alpa's new plan, go along with what DW and PR want or face charges. What a joke! This is SOP for ALPA.

 

[700UW]

My money is on Piney!

 

[DR.EVIL]

My money is on Piney!

[post="269840"][/post]​

I'm getting a warm fuzzy feeling inside seeing you guys together!!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

PineyBob:

I'll go round-and-round with you if you like, but what's the point?

I provide information that I believe is the facts. I have no agenda and all I want is what is best for all US Airways stakeholders, including stockholders, customers, and employees alike.

Like you I call a spade a spade and you of all people should not object to that.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy:

You logged onto the ALPA website on April 28 and saw those comments, but failed to report the whole story.

[post="269790"][/post]​

Thank you very much, USA320Pilot. I think this will be the second post of your's I'll save....

For those not familiar with the ALPA web board, there is no way to tell who is logged on when unless a pilot posts - if they do the date of the post is displayed just as here. Unless, of course, someone with access to that data - say a MEC communications person or web board manager - released it improperly.

Since I didn't post on April 28 (and I just checked), there is absolutely no way USA320Pilot could know if I was logged on or not that day. Unless, of course, someone is releasing information to people that have no right to it. Very interesting.

Now we have something for ALPA to really investigate.....

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

You're wrong -- there is a way to check log-ins and who is on-line when and your insinuation is wrong, but I wouldn't expect anything else from your sneaky ways.

Nonetheless, you said, "Then there's the question of posting private e-mails - something your friend Garland regularly does while others are admonished not to. I'm surprised you can spell integrity, your friend from BOS obviously can't...."

See that's my point about you and your purposeful misrepresentation. The information I posted came from the ALPA message board but you purposely misrepresent information and said it was from a private email. You purposely lied and then went to check the ALPA message board.

In addition, you cut and paste certain previous posts to tell part of the story that also misrepresents information. That's the problem I have with the "darksiders" and people that support them , like you.

It's good to have a disagreement because two minds create three minds, which creates a better result.

The problem I have with you is that your purposely misrepresent information and also try to discredit the messenger with telling only part of the story instead of "shooting the messenger" like you do on the ALPA board.

I'm not going to get into "mud slinging" -- I'm just going to call a spade a spade. When would now be a good time for you to become honest?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy:

You're wrong -- there is a way to check log-ins and who is on-line when and your insinuation is wrong, but I wouldn't expect anything else from your sneaky ways.

[post="269862"][/post]​

You're wrong, but you are welcome to prove me a "liar" by posting the info here that shows I was logged onto the ALPA web board on April 28th. Somehow I expect you'll decline since I know you can't.

Care to back up your accusation for a change?

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

I cannot post a link to a secure site and you know it. There you go again, Mr. Integrity. Issue a challenge that you know cannot be met and then make your public comments. Cute – real cute. Let me ask you two “yes or noâ€￾ questions.

-- Were you on the ALPA message board on April 28?

-- Did you read Garland Jones’ post titled “ALPA National and the Question of MEC Representational Improprietyâ€￾ on the ALPA message board before making your comments on USAviation.com about a private email tonight?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

You're wrong, but you are welcome to prove me a "liar" by posting the info here that shows I was logged onto the ALPA web board on April 28th. Somehow I expect you'll decline since I know you can't.

Care to back up your accusation for a change?

Jim

[post="269865"][/post]​

there are times when i think it would be good to limit the first amendment......this could be the time.....

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy:

I cannot post a link to a secure site and you know it.

[post="269869"][/post]​

Nice attempt at an excuse, but if you'd bother to read you'd notice I didn't ask you to post a link. You've shown that you're the master of cut-n-paste so put those talents to work.

There you go again, Mr. Integrity. Issue a challenge that you know cannot be met and then make your public comments. Cute – real cute. Let me ask you two “yes or noâ€￾ questions.

-- Were you on the ALPA message board on April 28?

[post="269869"][/post]​

You made the claim. To quote something you've said before, "I'm not going to do your research for you". Either back it up or say you were wrong.

-- Did you read Garland Jones’ post titled “ALPA National and the Question of MEC Representational Improprietyâ€￾ on the ALPA message board before making your comments on USAviation.com about a private email tonight?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269869"][/post]​

Again, you made the claim - back it up or say you were wrong.

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

One does not need a link. Post the screenshot somewhere will blurred names, link to it here (just like the big graphic above), and let Jim know how to do that same thing himself.

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

Afraid to answer the questions? I asked you two direct questions and you refuse to answer them. You know I cannot hyperlink information from the "Pilots Only" forum so how can I respond to your challenge. In addition, you know there is a way to check logins. As ClueByBour indicated, you're busted.

Answer the questions -- yes or no. Where on on the ALPA messge baord on April 28 and did you read Garland Jones’ post titled “ALPA National and the Question of MEC Representational Improprietyâ€￾ on the ALPA message board before making your comments on USAviation.com about a private email tonight?

Yes or no. When would now be a good time for you to be honest? It's apparent that the people you support in PHL as MEC Reps are not honest. What about you? Will you answer the questions?

Regards,

USA320Pilot