Usair Hanging On To Her Assets

[N924PS]

Walmartgreeter:

I will give it a rest too. The new contract s_cks, but there is nothing we can do about it. The best thing we can do is get the best seniority integration possible and then move on to the Joint Negotiations where a new contract will be obtained for the combined US Airways-America West business entity. Let’s try to collectively learn from our mistakes and move forward to get the best deal possible.

AAviator:

What’s your point? The senators tried to bring some sanity to the issue, but in the ned their motivation was politcal. Events change during negotiations and a good negotiating team makes adjustments, except ALPA’s was an “all rookie†team with no experience. In fact, nobody on the committee had ever attended the George Meaney School of Labor Relations when they began negotiations on LOA 91 and LOA 93. When the first and only member of the current ALPA negotiating committee attended the school he became the first ALPA negotiator at any airline to not successfully pass the course.

In fact, nobody on the current negotiating team has attended the school and I suspect US Airways is the only ALP carrier that does not have trained negotiators.

I’ll debate this later – I’m going to bed. I have to get up early.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269588"][/post]​

Sure we can do something about it. The recent events at PHL Council 41 are a start. The ineterim F/O Rep is a superb individual who, of his own volition, did more than the MEC Chairman to try to save the Pilot's Pensions.

Get rid of the GAG in BOS and CLT. Get some people that can march in step instead of miring the process with political infighting. The AW Pilots have already replaced their MEC Chairman in order to have better resources for the impending merger. U should do the same.

The PHL and PIT reps have my admiration for their efforts. It was the weakness of the others that caused the U pilots to have the worst contract in the industry. They were "sleeping with the enemy" and look where it got the group at large.
In 1776, they would have been blindfolded and shot as traitors. And not by the Redcoats.

 

[AAviator]

Well put.

But I fear completely lost on 320

 

[USA320Pilot]

N925PS

Is that why the interim PHL F/O Rep is being investigated for impropriety by ALPA National? Would you care to describe the alleged dishonesty and why the MEC chairman and Paul Rice from ALPA National have launched an investigation into his affairs?

At least his term ends I believe on June 10.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW & AAviator:

Thank you for correcting my typing mistake. It's even more obvious you do not know much about labor relations because the term I used is the term the school is called by those who have attended the program.

Regardless, here is the crux of the matter. It's called experience.

The experienced Negotiating Committee was replaced by an "all rookie" Negotiating Committee. This committee has no training, except for one person who did not pass the George Meany course. He was the first pilot in the history of ALPA to flunk the course.

Then this inexperienced Negotiating Committee and their RC4 leaders agreed to a TA much worse than the "ask", which was unnecessary.

Why did this occur? As time went on US Airways' bankruptcy costs increased and with the public fight between the company and the union(s) passengers began "booking away" from the airline driving down revenue.

ALPA's advisors told us this would occur. How did they know? Because the advisors worked on other bankrupt airline labor negotiations and witnessed this first hand, versus ALPA's "all rookie" Negotiating Committee.

It's true that US Airways' labor cost is lower today due to labor not accepting management's initial offers, which will help going forward, but the cuts are deeper than necessary, eliminated the minimum fleet count, and have caused greater employee pain than was required.

With that said, there is nothing that can be done from the past but to learn from the mistakes and go on. While in bankruptcy US Airways has the leverage of the courts and with the new Holding Company about to be announced, once US Airways emerges the Joint Negotiating Committee will have an opportunity to repair some of the damage caused by the RC 4 and their Negotiating Committee.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

700UW & AAviator:

Thank you for correcting my typing mistake. It's even more obvious you do not know much about labor relations because the term I used is the term the school is called by those who have attended the program.

Regardless, here is the crux of the matter. It's called experience.

The experienced Negotiating Committee was replaced by an "all rookie" Negotiating Committee. This committee has no training, except for one person who did not pass the George Meany course. He was the first pilot in the history of ALPA to flunk the course.

Then this inexperienced Negotiating Committee and their RC4 leaders agreed to a TA much worse than the "ask", which was unnecessary.

Why did this occur? As time went on US Airways' bankruptcy costs increased and with the public fight between the company and the union(s) passengers began "booking away" from the airline driving down revenue.

ALPA's advisors told us this would occur. How did they know? Because the advisors worked on other bankrupt airline labor negotiations and witnessed this first hand, versus ALPA's "all rookie" Negotiating Committee.

It's true that US Airways' labor cost is lower today due to labor not accepting management's initial offers, which will help going forward, but the cuts are deeper than necessary, eliminated the minimum fleet count, and have caused greater employee pain than was required.

With that said, there is nothing that can be done from the past but to learn from the mistakes and go on. While in bankruptcy US Airways has the leverage of the courts and with the new Holding Company about to be announced, once US Airways emerges the Joint Negotiating Committee will have an opportunity to repair some of the damage caused by the RC 4 and their Negotiating Committee.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269637"][/post]​

dude get over it,all the crying in the world will not change what you've been delt.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Nycbusdriver:

The company's initial proposal was for America West pay rates, America West retirement, and JetBlue work rules. What did the pilot's end up with? JetBlue pay, America West retirement, and worse than JetBlue work rules.

What did this cost the pilot group? First Officer pay cut an additional $9 per hour more than the ask, Captain pay cut about $13 per hour more than the "ask", and the VM/Dead Head problem. 

All the RC4 had to do was agree to the company’s opening offer and the 279 fleet count would still exist, there would be higher pay, the current retirement, and not VM/Dead Head problem.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269563"][/post]​

You truly ARE smoking controlled substances if you cannot see the disconnect here. By taking the initial offering, the U pilots would have been a larger cost to the company right now. That LARGER cost would somehow translate into the company keeping the fleet at a higher number? Just HOW is that possible?

Sorry. Maybe you're not smoking anything. Maybe you're just too obtuse to understand that higher costs for the company (if the pilots had accepted the better offer) would likely lead to a smaller fleet. One or the other (279 A/C or the HP compensation package) would have had to been "renegotiated" by now. Of course, in that oxygen-free universe where you reside, you will never see it that way.

 

[BoeingBoy]

At least his term ends I believe on June 10.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269634"][/post]​

Correction: his term as interim rep ends about then.....

Jim

 

[700UW]

Apparently you have no idea about the NLC, I have taken classes that have been accredited by them have you?
I know people attending the NLC getting their college degrees.

And I have taken numerous classes at William W Wipinsinger Education and Technology Center, have you done the same there or at a ALPA equivalent?

National Labor College Courses

WWW Education and Technology Center Courses

 

[luvn737s]

That is a stupid question...We are still here, but would not be without the consessions..Period!

[post="269560"][/post]​

So let's look at the recent history of concessions: TWA- pilots gave back and gave back and ultimately the airline was sold. US- pilots have given and given and now it appears the airline will be sold, or the equivalent. What I am saying is that no one can ever say a concession is an investment in the future. If instead of agreeing to cut pay, you just wrote the airline a check to help them out, the real picture of what is happening would be clear. Call it an incompetence assessment.

 

[Mtnman928]

N925PS

Is that why the interim PHL F/O Rep is being investigated for impropriety by ALPA National? Would you care to describe the alleged dishonesty and why the MEC chairman and Paul Rice from ALPA National have launched an investigation into his affairs?

At least his term ends I believe on June 10.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269634"][/post]​

This is the same rhetoric that came out after the failed recall attempt in PHL last year. While I can’t put my hands on in I remember the same individual making a claim that there would be “investigationsâ€￾ around improprieties regarding that vote. I have not yet received a phone call or letter asking for my statement regarding that action or did I file a complaint about the outcome.

Yes, the F/O rep’s term expires in June but I will lay you odds his name will be on the ballot for a full term at the next election. That’s if a certain person from the New England area doesn’t try to torpedo him and influence the election himself.

Mtnman

 

[700UW]

A certain pilot also said that the RC4 would be arrested and jailed and civil litigation would take place too.

Funny another thing the "legend in his own mind" was wrong about once again.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That’s if a certain person from the New England area doesn’t try to torpedo him and influence the election himself.

Mtnman

[post="269650"][/post]​

Haven't you gotten the memo? It's already underway.....

Jim

 

[N924PS]

N925PS

Is that why the interim PHL F/O Rep is being investigated for impropriety by ALPA National? Would you care to describe the alleged dishonesty and why the MEC chairman and Paul Rice from ALPA National have launched an investigation into his affairs?

At least his term ends I believe on June 10.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269634"][/post]​

And he will be voted into office after that as PHL F/O Rep. Count on it.

You and the rest of GAG can't stand having someone with more than a teaspoonful of testosterone voted in to office.

And let me guess, the "allegations" of dishonesty came from........? You guessed it, the BOS F/O REP and his cronies.

 

[N924PS]

N925PS

Is that why the interim PHL F/O Rep is being investigated for impropriety by ALPA National? Would you care to describe the alleged dishonesty and why the MEC chairman and Paul Rice from ALPA National have launched an investigation into his affairs?

At least his term ends I believe on June 10.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269634"][/post]​

ALPA National needs to clean up it's own house first.

The current US MEC Chairman is on the US BOD. No conflict of interest there?

The past two MEC Chairmen:

Cushy Job at ALPA National

Airbus Salesman

 

[BoeingBoy]

Is that why the interim PHL F/O Rep is being investigated for impropriety by ALPA National? Would you care to describe the alleged dishonesty and why the MEC chairman and Paul Rice from ALPA National have launched an investigation into his affairs?

[post="269634"][/post]​

This is the same rhetoric that came out after the failed recall attempt in PHL last year. While I can’t put my hands on in I remember the same individual making a claim that there would be “investigationsâ€￾ around improprieties regarding that vote.

[post="269650"][/post]​

I think you're talking about this:

In regard to the PHL Reps, I would not be surprised if the Department of Labor and NLRB become involved by conducting a formal investigation into alleged election irregularities and fraud. Stay tuned.

[post="155699"][/post]​

Jim