Usair Hanging On To Her Assets

[Mtnman928]

I think you're talking about this:
Jim

[post="269661"][/post]​

Thanks Jim, I knew I had seen it somewhere. I've stayed tuned since that post and you know what, it's the same song over and over and over......


I need to find a new station!

Mtnman

 

[BoeingBoy]

I need to find a new station!

[post="269662"][/post]​

And miss all the fun

Jim

 

[700UW]

And the ironic things is the NLRB(National Labor Relations Board) deals with union elections for employees covered under the National Labor Relations Act, not the RLA (Railway Labor Act) which unionized airline employees fall under, and that jurisdiction is the NMB(National Mediation Board) and they only deal with union elections, contract negotiations (mediation) and dispute resolution, nothing to do with union officers and politics.

The National Mediation Board (NMB), established by the 1934 amendments to the Railway Labor Act of 1926, is an independent agency that performs a central role in facilitating harmonious labor-management relations within two of the nation's key transportation modes--the railroads and airlines. Pursuant to the Railway Labor Act, NMB programs provide an integrated dispute resolution process to effectively meet the statutory objective of minimizing work stoppages in the airline and railroad industries. The NMB's integrated processes specifically are designed to promote three statutory goals:

The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements;


The effectuation of employee rights of self-organization where a representation dispute exists; and


The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes over the interpretation or application of existing agreements.

 

[markkus757]

If it's possible to get off the pile on top of A320pilot, I think we were debating the prospect of US' competitors trying to spin off what they have to mortgage to stay alive. These companies have tried to stay out of BK by any means possible. Noble, but I think foolish under the current circumstances they find themselves in a position where ch.7 will find them, not ch. 11. Whether or not you agree with what has transpired with US, I think going forward, if the problems can be addressed, this company can survive.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If it's possible to get off the pile on top of A320pilot, I think we were debating the prospect of US' competitors trying to spin off what they have to mortgage to stay alive.

[post="269673"][/post]​

Let's discuss the thread title.

"Usair Hanging On To Her Assets while Delta, Continental eye asset sales"

Possibly true if you want to look at the last week, but over the last decade plus, what has happened at US vs DL/CO:

- Nearly 50% of the mainline fleet gone - how does that compare to DL/CO?

- At least twenty-one owned aircraft sold and leased back (this BK alone) - how does that compare to DL/CO?

- The majority of Express capacity provided by affiliates - how does that compare to DL/CO? They could sell off their owned express and still have a lower percentage of system capacity provided under contract than US (assuming the Republic deal is consummated).

Now let's substitute "markets" for "assets", as the OP suggested.

- The PSA purchase made US #1 on the west coast - gone.

- The Florida Shuttle was #1 in intra-Florida service - gone.

- BWI hub - gone

- PIT hub - gone

- A number of cities where US was by far the market leader but is now barely holding on to #1 or has relenquished the title.

- A number of cities where US was the sole carrier - gone.

How does this compare to DL/CO?

The airline industry is replete with examples of how long it takes for an airline to die - US is just the latest. So hoping that either DL or CO will go straight to CH 7 is like hoping for a white Christmas in Rio or Sydney.

Jim

PS - as far as piling on poor old USA320Pilot, who was it that first brought up union politics in this thread?

During an ALPA meeting I attended at the Key Bridge Marriott Bruce Lakefield indicated the company would lose at least 30 aircraft without labor agreements and former PIT Captain Rep said, "(paraphrased) if the DC Plan is not kept intact you will not get a deal," thus forcing the lessors hand especially after the LOA 91 ALPA debacle with GECAS.

The 279 minimum fleet count could have remained in-place with much less of labor “giveâ€￾, if the unions had participated in the new business plan prior to the “judicial restructuringâ€￾.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269476"][/post]​

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

You continue to twist information with selected posts instead of telling the whole story. You know exactly what has happened and why Bill Pollock has asked ALPA International to investigate improprieties by the PHL Reps. As you know, MEC chairman Bill Pollock recently wrote Paul Rice asking him to conduct a full investigation because of action by the the PHL reps that call into question certain legalities that could cost the association $25,000. I simply posted my comments after AAviator commented how much he liked and supported the PHL Reps, who clearly lack integrity.

Why don't you post the comments of the MEC Secretary/Treasurer on this subject, since you have read them? This is exactly what I mean about your spilt message board personality when you do not post all of the facts.

I said I am not going to going to question your integrity anymore, but your misrepresentation and telling only part of the story must be stopped.

When would now be a good time for you to post all of the information instead of only looking into archives for selected information to slant the story?

When would now be a good time to have some integrity?

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

BoeingBoy:

You continue to twist information with selected posts instead of telling the whole story. You know exactly what has happened and why Bill Pollock has asked ALPA International to investigate improprieties by the PHL Reps. As you know, MEC chairman Bill Pollock recently wrote Paul Rice asking him to conduct a full investigation because of action by the the PHL reps that call into question certain legalities that could cost the association $25,000. I simply posted my comments after AAviator commented how much he liked and supported the PHL Reps, who clearly lack integrity.

Why don't you post the comments of the MEC Secretary/Treasurer on this subject, since you have read them? This is exactly what I mean about your spilt message board personality when you do not post all of the facts.

I said I am not going to going to question your integrity anymore, but your misrepresentation and telling only part of the story must be stopped.

When would now be a good time for you to post all of the information instead of only looking into archives for selected information to slant the story?

When would now be a good time to have some integrity?

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269720"][/post]​

now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black i don't know what is!

 

[USA320Pilot]

PineyBob:

Right...yea, you got it. Not.

I provide facts and then the argument to support my position. BoeingBoy intentionally leaves out important details to try to discredit others. He knows full well about the investigation and the actions taken by ALPA, but he and AAviator failed to provide that part of the story.

In my book that is a lack of integrity. I'll simply post a column from the parties and I will not lay with pigs because when you do you get muddy too. The RC4 and their supporters simply lie and I have no use for liars. Maybe you do, but I do not.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

PineyBob:

Right...yea, you got it. Not.

I provide facts and then the argument to support my position.
Regards,
USA320Pilot

[post="269731"][/post]​

That is the most absurd statement I have ever read.

You don't even know the NLRB has nothing to do with Airline Unions.

Give me a break.

 

[delldude]

PineyBob:

Right...yea, you got it. Not.

I provide facts and then the argument to support my position.



USA320Pilot

[post="269731"][/post]​

 

[Bud8EE]

BoeingBoy:

You continue to twist information with selected posts instead of telling the whole story. You know exactly what has happened and why Bill Pollock has asked ALPA International to investigate improprieties by the PHL Reps. As you know, MEC chairman Bill Pollock recently wrote Paul Rice asking him to conduct a full investigation because of action by the the PHL reps that call into question certain legalities that could cost the association $25,000. I simply posted my comments after AAviator commented how much he liked and supported the PHL Reps, who clearly lack integrity.

Why don't you post the comments of the MEC Secretary/Treasurer on this subject, since you have read them? This is exactly what I mean about your spilt message board personality when you do not post all of the facts.

I said I am not going to going to question your integrity anymore, but your misrepresentation and telling only part of the story must be stopped.

When would now be a good time for you to post all of the information instead of only looking into archives for selected information to slant the story?

When would now be a good time to have some integrity?

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269720"][/post]​

Because as most have figured out, Pollock, Deangelo and the 8 MEC members you support are politically motivated against PHL because they are part of the "RC 4". They have no credibility because all this is a another "he said, she said" event in ones side trying to trump the other. To throw around Pollock's mane as credible and unbiased is comical at best because eveyone here knows your game and motiivations. Pollock and Deangelo speaking on this is, is as unbiased as Bush or Gore on the Supreme Court's decision in 2000. Just because they lead doesn't mean they are unbiased or politically motivated. Pollock is MEC charmain because elections take place on a 1-1 Senatorial vote and can be tossed out by Roll Calling which is based on actual representation. The representative majority vote held by PIT & PHL would love to see him gone and anything that is counterproductive to those MEC members would be in his best interestts. That's the whole story.

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy:

You continue to twist information with selected posts instead of telling the whole story. You know exactly what has happened and why Bill Pollock has asked ALPA International to investigate improprieties by the PHL Reps. As you know, MEC chairman Bill Pollock recently wrote Paul Rice asking him to conduct a full investigation because of action by the the PHL reps that call into question certain legalities that could cost the association $25,000. I simply posted my comments after AAviator commented how much he liked and supported the PHL Reps, who clearly lack integrity.

Why don't you post the comments of the MEC Secretary/Treasurer on this subject, since you have read them? This is exactly what I mean about your spilt message board personality when you do not post all of the facts.

I said I am not going to going to question your integrity anymore, but your misrepresentation and telling only part of the story must be stopped.

When would now be a good time for you to post all of the information instead of only looking into archives for selected information to slant the story?

When would now be a good time to have some integrity?

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269720"][/post]​

I'm not going to continue with "mud slinging", emotional comments, or to try and discredit the messenger. If you choose to do so, so be it.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="266173"][/post]​

And you were doing so well for a few days......

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

And you say others give a one-sided view. Then there's the question of posting private e-mails - something your friend Garland regularly does while others are admonished not to.

I'm surprised you can spell integrity, your friend from BOS obviously can't....

Respectfully,

Jim

 

[700UW]

I do not support liars and people who lack integrity,
Regards,
USA320Pilot

[post="269747"][/post]​

Then you don't support yourself.

 

[AAviator]

700UW & AAviator:

Thank you for correcting my typing mistake. It's even more obvious you do not know much about labor relations because the term I used is the term the school is called by those who have attended the program.

Regardless, here is the crux of the matter. It's called experience.

The experienced Negotiating Committee was replaced by an "all rookie" Negotiating Committee. This committee has no training, except for one person who did not pass the George Meany course. He was the first pilot in the history of ALPA to flunk the course.

Then this inexperienced Negotiating Committee and their RC4 leaders agreed to a TA much worse than the "ask", which was unnecessary.

Why did this occur? As time went on US Airways' bankruptcy costs increased and with the public fight between the company and the union(s) passengers began "booking away" from the airline driving down revenue.

For the record, show where I said I liked the PHL reps
ALPA's advisors told us this would occur. How did they know? Because the advisors worked on other bankrupt airline labor negotiations and witnessed this first hand, versus ALPA's "all rookie" Negotiating Committee.

It's true that US Airways' labor cost is lower today due to labor not accepting management's initial offers, which will help going forward, but the cuts are deeper than necessary, eliminated the minimum fleet count, and have caused greater employee pain than was required.

With that said, there is nothing that can be done from the past but to learn from the mistakes and go on. While in bankruptcy US Airways has the leverage of the courts and with the new Holding Company about to be announced, once US Airways emerges the Joint Negotiating Committee will have an opportunity to repair some of the damage caused by the RC 4 and their Negotiating Committee.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269637"][/post]​

Is this the same T/A that you -personally- threatened legal action over if it were not sent out to the membership for vote? Don't try to muddy the waters with other irrelevant bullsh1t about some negotiating school. It has NO relevance with your position. I'm talking about your vote, and your now apparent position that Alpa gave the company too much.

YOU said:
A union’s responsibility to the membership is to get the best deal possible and not negotiate a deal worse than the company’s opener. Do you agree with that?

I agree.

You threatened financial ruin to these guys if they DIDN'T send the T/A to the membership.

I'm asking for some integrity from you to stand by your statement here.

Ethics. Pure and simple.

Don't flap about negotiators being weak, or whatever else you can think of,...

Show some integrity.